Return to Monkey Island

[KestrelPi]

Hmm!

 

I'd like to see character growth. Most of MI1's 'jerk guybrush' moments seem to come from him just being kind of oblivious to things outside of his immediate goals. In MI2, it's a bit different, it seems to come a bit more from an inflated sense of self-importance. I think after the experience of the tunnels and Big Whoop, however they actually get addressed, Guybrush's idea of where he fits in the world might have shifted again. Maybe we're going to see a more thoughtful, philosophical version of Guybrush, or something. Of course, we're talking shades here. It's still going to be the fairly inept but oddly determined character we know, trying his best to live up to the mighty pirate profession.

[Asterothe]

Is there a place Guybrush says monkey died from exhaustion? 

[MurraySchull]

37 minutes ago, Asterothe said:

Is there a place Guybrush says monkey died from exhaustion? 

 

Jojo Jr. tells Guybrush that his father, Jojo Sr. , was swinging on the lever that controlled the Monkey Head switch after being trained to hang there (in MI1), but never recieved the command to let go, so he "starved to death, waiting for a simple command that never came!"  Guybrush can also examine his grave later on but I don't remember if he had any particular quips about it there.

 

As a side note, the monkey in MI1 that hangs on the switch is never named in-game, but in MI2, the piano playing monkey is actually named Jojo, and is unrelated to both Jojo Jr. and Sr. I guess all monkeys in this world are just naturally called Jojo!

Edited April 27, 2022 by fentongames

[Asterothe]

2 minutes ago, fentongames said:

 

Jojo Jr. tells Guybrush that his father, Jojo Sr. , was swinging on the lever that controlled the Monkey Head switch after being trained to hang there (in MI1), but never recieved the command to let go, so he "starved to death, waiting for a simple command that never came!"  Guybrush can also examine his grave later on but I don't remember if he had any particular quips about it there.

 

As a side note, the monkey in MI1 that hangs on the switch is never named in-game, but in MI2, the piano playing monkey is actually named Jojo, and is unrelated to both Jojo Jr. and Sr. I guess all monkeys in this world are just naturally called Jojo!

 

Thanks! This is from Escape right? I finished it when it was out and forgot the details.  

 

[MurraySchull]

10 minutes ago, Asterothe said:

 

Thanks! This is from Escape right? I finished it when it was out and forgot the details.  

 

 

Yes it is. The later games do definitely have their moments as far as "cruel humour" goes!

 

As a side-note, I'm just picturing the level of speculation, concern and panic that would ignite in these threads in the event that the voice actor of Jojo Jr. announced they were returning for ReMI...

[Rum Rogers]

So, I'm playing Knights and Bikes and weird symbols are all over the place in this game too. Fascinating.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Rum Rogers

[ThunderPeel2001]

Anyone got any thoughts on the difficulty modes? I believe Ron has said there's two again (Easy and Normal).

 

For me, Monkey Island 2 completely got it wrong: There were originally supposed to be three modes: Easy, Normal and Hard, but Normal fell by the wayside and we were left with Easy and Hard.

 

Larry Ahern and Jonathan Ackley perfected it with Curse though: Normal and Hard. I've played through Curse probably more than any other LA game, and I always do Normal followed by Hard. It's SO much fun to do with this way.

 

Normal is a fantastic, challenging, well crafted adventure game. It's perfectly in line with other LA adventures of the era. And afterwards you get to play on Hard and uncover some tricker puzzles... which means you basically get two solid adventure games for the price of one. It worked SO well.

 

Oh the other hand, I don't know anyone who played MI2 on "Easy"...

[OzzieMonkey]

1 hour ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Anyone got any thoughts on the difficulty modes? I believe Ron has said there's two again (Easy and Normal).

 

For me, Monkey Island 2 completely got it wrong: There were originally supposed to be three modes: Easy, Normal and Hard, but Normal fell by the wayside and we were left with Easy and Hard.

 

Larry Ahern and Jonathan Ackley perfected it with Curse though: Normal and Hard. I've played through Curse probably more than any other LA game, and I always do Normal followed by Hard. It's SO much fun to do with this way.

 

Normal is a fantastic, challenging, well crafted adventure game. It's perfectly in line with other LA adventures of the era. And afterwards you get to play on Hard and uncover some tricker puzzles... which means you basically get two solid adventure games for the price of one. It worked SO well.

 

Oh the other hand, I don't know anyone who played MI2 on "Easy"...

I think the mistake MI2 made with its Lite mode was removing entire characters and locations to streamline the game, which resulted in the game feeling incomplete, like you were missing out on content. No spitting contest or Kate Capsize, no Rapp Scallion resurrection, no Bone dance, it was overkill with the cuts. Compare that with Curse, where you still get to experience the scope of the adventure, the puzzles are just easier. I think the Lite mode was made in a rush and as a bit of a joke with the whole "this mode is for the press" thing and so less effort was put in to make it a legitimate way of playing through the game. This time though, I think Ron will be actively making sure this is still a more complete experience, but just less of a challenge for less seasoned players. 

[Zaxx]

1 hour ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Larry Ahern and Jonathan Ackley perfected it with Curse though: Normal and Hard. I've played through Curse probably more than any other LA game, and I always do Normal followed by Hard. It's SO much fun to do with this way.

 

Normal is a fantastic, challenging, well crafted adventure game. It's perfectly in line with other LA adventures of the era. And afterwards you get to play on Hard and uncover some tricker puzzles... which means you basically get two solid adventure games for the price of one. It worked SO well.

That's kind of funny considering that according to Jonathlan Ackley designing the difficulty modes took like a week:

I never played CMI on easy though so I believe you.

[Lagomorph01]

5 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Larry Ahern and Jonathan Ackley perfected it with Curse though: Normal and Hard. I've played through Curse probably more than any other LA game, and I always do Normal followed by Hard. It's SO much fun to do with this way.

 

Normal is a fantastic, challenging, well crafted adventure game. It's perfectly in line with other LA adventures of the era. And afterwards you get to play on Hard and uncover some tricker puzzles... which means you basically get two solid adventure games for the price of one. It worked SO well.

I agree to this so much!! To me it was like magic back in the day! I loved replaying the game with more difficult puzzles and getting stuck in that same world again. Of course by now I’d have way less time for it, and I’d probably go straight for Mega Monkey mode, but I’d love to play it like that again.

 

I just have one thing to say… “Have you seen me gold tooth?”… AAAARGHH!!

 

3 hours ago, Zaxx said:

That's kind of funny considering that according to Jonathlan Ackley designing the difficulty modes took like a week:

I never played CMI on easy though so I believe you.

That’s really interesting! I always thought of it as a two differently designed modes that were thought of from somewhere in the beginning.

If it’s that easy to do, I wonder why not many Adventure games had it. It adds a ton of replay value!

[Rum Rogers]

I've always thought the difficulty level in CMI is a stretch, so I'm not amazed to know it's something that was done in a rush.
What I mean is it doesn't change much, there's just a few variations and (iirc) only a new inventory item (dog biscuits).
Anyway I'm so glad I immediately went for the Mega Monkey difficulty back then.

[KestrelPi]

7 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Oh the other hand, I don't know anyone who played MI2 on "Easy"...

 

I did! Monkey Island 2 was my second ever adventure game, I was probably only 10 or 11 years old, and I'd only been able to finish the first game with the help of a hint book. I didn't have one for MI2, and I was playing both before we had an internet connection and before the internet could be relied upon for walkthroughs... so yep, the first time I played through I picked easy mode to give myself a better chance to get through it

[ThunderPeel2001]

5 hours ago, Lagomorph01 said:

 

I just have one thing to say… “Have you seen me gold tooth?”… AAAARGHH!!

YES!!!! Ha. That’s so true. It would get me every time, and I’d always feel like a satisfying conclusion when I finally got it. 

[ThunderPeel2001]

9 hours ago, Zaxx said:

I never played CMI on easy though so I believe you  

CMI didn’t have an “Easy” mode, that was whole point I was trying to make. It had a NORMAL mode which was the same difficulty as Sam & Max, Full Throttle, etc. As Ackley pointed out in the Tweet you quoted: The game was designed as Normal mode and then more difficult puzzles were added for Hard. 
 

Whereas MI2 had whole puzzle sections removed for Easy. 
 

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[Lagomorph01]

3 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

As Ackley pointed out in the Tweet you quoted: The game was designed as Normal mode and then more difficult puzzles were added for Hard.

The Tweet states that someone named Chris identified the puzzles that could be skipped. So the way I read it, the game was built as Mega Monkey Mode and then toned down to 'normal' mode.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Lagomorph01

[ThunderPeel2001]

Agh. Yep, I think you’re right. My bad. Strange because unlike MI2 it definitely feels like the other way around when you play it. 
 

With MI2 whole sections were pulled as I recall. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[KestrelPi]

1 minute ago, Lagomorph01 said:

The Tweet states that someone named Chris identified the puzzles that could be skipped. So the way I read it, the game was built as Mega Monkey Mode and then toned down to 'normal' mode.

Yes, also my read. "He identified the puzzles which could be skipped."

It would have taken way more than a couple of days to actually design and implement and write dialogue for whole new puzzles.

[Udvarnoky]

The "Chris" by the way is Chris Purvis. He and Chuck Jordan were roughly the equivalent of Dave and Tim on the first game, in that they largely scripted and wrote the game's rooms.

[ThunderPeel2001]

5 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

Yes, also my read. "He identified the puzzles which could be skipped."

It would have taken way more than a couple of days to actually design and implement and write dialogue for whole new puzzles.

 

Yep, that does make more sense. Doh. I stand corrected! Well this Chris chap did a good job.
 

MI2 felt heavily edited by comparison, whereas Normal on CMI (which is how it’s described — rather than being an “Easy” mode) felt well designed and very deliberate. 
 

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[Zaxx]

3 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

Yep, that does make more sense. Doh. I stand corrected! Well this Chris chap did a good job.
 

MI2 felt heavily edited by comparison, whereas Normal on CMI (which is how it’s described — rather than being an “Easy” mode) felt well designed and very deliberate. 
 

 

I think Ron Gilbert might disagree with that because as far as I know even Thimbleweed Park removes a lot of scenes from the game and also alters its progression quite a bit. To me that indicates that Ron looks at the concept of difficulty as more than just "let's make the puzzles easier" and rather he applies that to the game as a whole, meaning narratively too.

 

The result of that is you get less from everything on easy but that might work better for people who have very limited time to play, it truly is this casual narrative focused experience that actually a lot of people expect from the adventure genre nowadays. And it can also have the effect that if you really like the story and want to go deeper then you have the option for a new playthrough where you most likely already possess the know-how on figuring out the puzzles on hard.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Zaxx

[ThunderPeel2001]

Yep, he certainly put more effort into MI2's and TP's difficulty levels than the CMI team did... but having tried them all CMI's was far more satisfying to me. I guess I don't think an Easy mode is worth the effort. Fans won't play it, and I doubt newbies are about to jump into the fifth instalment of a franchise? 🤷‍♂️ (Unless Devolver are hoping to snag new fans with this?)

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[Asterothe]

1 hour ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Yep, he certainly put more effort into MI2's and TP's difficulty levels than the CMI team did... but having tried them all CMI's was far more satisfying to me. I guess I don't think an Easy mode is worth the effort. Fans won't play it, and I doubt newbies are about to jump into the fifth instalment of a franchise? 🤷‍♂️ (Unless Devolver are hoping to snag new fans with this?)

 

I'm sure they are aiming to sell to the new fans more than existing fans.

[Jake]

I played Monkey Island 2 on easy mode first because other than quickly losing interest in Kings Quest V (understandable imo), it was my first adventure game. It still took me and my younger brother weeks and weeks and weeks to beat. I still remember the little differences like Largo just having some folded clothes that you can pick up, and some little incidental dialog here and there, but I agree there aren’t many additions. Because I played east first, and was 10-11 years old or something, my brother and friends and I were convinced we hadn’t seen the “real” ending. Or maybe more appropriately, I remember being suspicious of it and feeling like I hadn’t seen the whole thing.
 

So we dove back in and played it on normal. And I remember we found it SUPER HARD. Especially putting the rat in the soup just took forever. My friend called the 900 number hint line with his parents permission, and when he called me to tell us the solution, we got to hurriedly tell him that MY BROTHER HAD JUST FIGURED IT OUT. His hint line time: wasted. I remember getting to the captain Kate stuff and feeling like the game was absolutely huge. 

 

Then we got to the end and it was exactly the same, and I remember all of us collectively saying “okay that’s what it is then.” Honestly, formative as hell haha. 

[ATMcashpoint]

I never finished MI2 on hard mode for many years growing up, because our Macintosh computer was so slow that you could bang the trash cans behind Elaine's mansion and leave the screen before the cook ever showed up. We had the hint book, but I didn't realize for years that you had to wait for the cook to appear before walking off the screen.

 

As for easy mode, probably the biggest change, besides Largo's folded dress shirt as Jake mentioned, is that Guybrush escapes the acid pit by asking Wally to pee on the candle.

[Niemandswasser]

34 minutes ago, ATMcashpoint said:

As for easy mode, probably the biggest change, besides Largo's folded dress shirt as Jake mentioned, is that Guybrush escapes the acid pit by asking Wally to pee on the candle.

 

Honestly that might be the one place where the game is funnier on easy mode than on normal difficulty. It still makes me snicker to think about. (For those who don't remember, the puzzle solution is to ask Wally if he has any ideas, and his response is "Well, I might have one...but you have to close your eyes." Then the screen goes black and you hear a PSSSSST sound.) As a kid I played on easy mode first and when I played on normal I couldn't believe it cut one of the game's funniest jokes.