Return to Monkey Island

[Rum Rogers]

I'd noticed that, but didn't think of posting it here. How cool is it anyway??

[Utwarrior]

I'm thinking here...

 

From a marketing point of view, it makes sense that Lucasfilm Games would opt for a more modern, non-pixel art style. And I think we should celebrate that decision.

 

A pixel art game would repel new players and keep the brand old. Now an eventual success of the game could mean a quick adaptation to an animated series on Disney+ and could bring in new players to resurrect the franchise.

[Rum Rogers]

Gonna be honest, if this helps bringing back adventure games to a more important place in the games industry, I'll be happy.
But I don't think the series needs to be resurrected more than this. Sure, a new MI is always fantastic, but milking it more is probably not a good idea once Ron reveals everything.

I'm hoping more for, say, a Maniac Mansion 3 after RMI. I just don't think Monkey Island 15 would be a good idea, it's not Final Fantasy. Or maybe spin-offs of the MI series, or even spin-offs from Grim Fandango (NOT sequels) or a Full Throttle 2. Just no more "pure" MI sequels unless Ron really wants to make more, that'd be different obviously.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Rum Rogers

[Lagomorph01]

I agree 100% with Rum Rogers here! Monkey Island is great because it’s a niche gaming series with a handful of dedicated fans. I hate all the milking that’s been going on of every franchise imaginable, and the series/sequels/etc are never really as good as the initial idea.

Keep Monkey Island Monkey Island. If Ron wants to do another after this sure, but stick to it’s roots I say.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I agree with assessment that 1 is a more enjoyable game. It's the one I fell in love with (like no other game before it). And I was absolutely over the moon when 2 was released... but something was always "off" for me. Guybrush quite simply wasn't Guybrush. He really is a completely different character, and I missed the sweetness and charm of the original game.

 

Of course I still played MI2 to death, and eventually learned to love MI2 for what it was. I now adore the world and the atmosphere. (Although I think back and I can't believe how much I suffered with those 11 disks on my Amiga!! Every change of scene required loading and swapping. And the second disk drive did nothing to help. I learned Zen patience from playing MI2...)

 

However there was another thread running throughout the game that I picked up on: The pressure to make a sequel. Guybrush is constantly complaining that blowing up LeChuck wasn't enough, and he feels under pressure to do something bigger and better. Was that the writers echoing the pressure they felt making the game?

 

It also seemed they basically stopped writing dialogue by the time Guybrush got to LeChuck's Fortress (everything is "Nice sign", "Nice door", "Nice skull"). Did they care less? And the ending itself is completely without joy. Merely a shock for the audience. (Although we all love it now... a lot of us were scarred by that ending!)

 

There's even digs at MI2 within the game itself: Phatt Library famously includes a book with quotes from Hal Barwood (of Fate of Atlantis fame) on Monkey Island 2: "You can't polish a turd." and "Less is more."

 

So this undercurrent made me feel the developers themselves weren't particularly happy, which had led to a less joyful game.

 

I got to ask Ron Gilbert about this when he came to London. I'd waited 15 years for the opportunity! He thought for a moment and said, "Yeah, I can see why you'd say that, but we weren't under pressure. I actually start making MI2 before anyone at LucasArts had given us the greenlight. I thought it would be better to ask forgiveness than permission." So there you go.

 

Of course, I'd love to know what Grossman, Schafer and Borowick have to say!

 

(I also got to ask Barwood about that book in an email interview that I tragically lost. He said he felt it was the programmer's way of making fun of the pithy snippets of wisdom he'd share.)

Edited April 7, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[Sopabuena]

2 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

I agree with assessment that 1 is a more enjoyable game. It's the one I fell in love with (like no other game before it). And I was absolutely over the moon when 2 was released... but something was always "off" for me. Guybrush quite simply wasn't Guybrush. He really is a completely different character, and I missed the sweetness and charm of the original game.

 

Of course I still played MI2 to death. and eventually learned to love MI2 for what it was. I now adore the world and the atmosphere. (Although I think back and I can't believe how much I suffered with those 11 disks on my Amiga!! Every change of scene required loading and swapping. And the second disk drive did nothing to help. I learned patience from playing MI2...)

 

However there's another thread running throughout the game that I picked up on: The pressure to make a sequel. Guybrush is constantly complaining that blowing up LeChuck wasn't enough, and he feels under pressure to do something bigger and better. It made me a bit sad because MI1 is nothing but joy from beginning to end... but MI2 has this undercurrent that the writers felt under pressure to make a bigger and better sequel, and so there was less joy.

 

It also seems they basically stopped writing dialogue by the time Guybrush got to LeChuck's Fortress (everything is "Nice sign", "Nice door", "Nice skull") and the shock ending itself is completely without joy. A cynical shock for the audience. (Although we all love it now, a lot of us were scarred by that ending!)

 

There's even digs at MI2 within the game itself: Phatt Library famously includes a book with quotes from Hal Barwood on Monkey Island 2: "You can't polish a turd." and "Less is more."

 

So this undercurrent made me feel the developers themselves weren't particularly happy, which had led to a less joyful game.

 

I got to ask Ron Gilbert about this when he came to London. I'd waited 15 years for the opportunity! He thought for a moment and said, "Yeah, I can see why you'd say that, but we weren't under pressure. I actually start making MI2 before anyone at LucasArts had given us the greenlight. I thought it would be better to ask forgiveness than permission." So there you go.

 

Of course, I'd love to know what Grossman, Schafer and Borowick have to say!

 

(I also got to ask Barwood about that book in an email interview that I tragically lost. He said he felt it was the programmer's way of making fun of the pithy snippets of wisdom he'd share.)

 

I complety agree with you. Playing MI2 as a kid was a little bit off putting. It was way darker than the first game. Scabb Island creeped me out, with the swamp, the cemetery and the lighthouse being the worst ones. It was not welcoming. Everything was grittier and covered in spit. Some scenes were too weird for me, like the costume party at the Mansion or even Governor Phatt's room. 

[Gapi182]

28 minutes ago, Sopabuena said:

 

I complety agree with you. Playing MI2 as a kid was a little bit off putting. It was way darker than the first game. Scabb Island creeped me out, with the swamp, the cemetery and the lighthouse being the worst ones. It was not welcoming. Everything was grittier and covered in spit. Some scenes were too weird for me, like the costume party at the Mansion or even Governor Phatt's room. 

I kinda loved that. There's something creepy about it. The entire atmosphere of the feels so lifeless, the colour palate, the characters and their replies, everything is intentionally depressing for a lack of a better word. But it's intentional.

 

When you replay the first 2 games and actually start thinking about the underlying tones and plots like Guybrush's parents and his brother, the idea that this is imaginary or a theme park makes so much sense. There's so many jokes and lines and foreshadowing all that. It's fantastic and one of the best games ever. There's so many levels to MI2. The entire game is like a puzzle with Ron giving us clues. The idea behind it is so brilliant that it's truly a shame Curse and escape completely ignored that but at the same time tried to be in that lore somehow.

 

MI2 felt like the beginning of the end. I'm not sure the end of what, maybe something happened to Guybrush, the real Guybrush or his parents. The metaphors, the philosophical questions that come from everything when you replay it while consciously thinking about it, you even start to see things in MI1 differently when you replay it. It wasn't that the writers weren't happy and there was pressure to have a sequel to live up to MI1. Ron started developing the game before they even ordered a sequel. It's intentional. They wanted you and guybrush to feel this. Why? Always thought it had something to do with how we live our childhood freely and carelessly and always happy but then slowly start seeing the flaws and problems in life

Edited April 7, 2022 by Gapi182

[Lagomorph01]

I love these personal stories about how you experienced the release of part 2!

My first Monkey Island experience came from the demo of part 3, which I absolutely loved and played to death! After that I played a Twilight version of the whole game (Twilight was a dutch piracy organisation which stripped games to their bare essentials and crammed them onto two CD’s per release). It didn’t have cutscenes, music or voice acting (although I eventually patched in the music, cutscenes and voices from a german version, so I could play that with English subtitles), but even in those early stripped down playthroughs I loved the game so much! I’d even imagine what the voices would sound like, and what accents they would have! I fell in love with it all over again when I finally got the whole game in English, but the whole way to get there will always be a special memory…

Only after that did I play Monkey Island 1 and eventually 2, and I loved those games too! I just never got to experience them when they first came out, so I can’t imagine the public reaction.

Thanks for sharing your stories! ❤️

[Glokidd]

I spent most of today editing together a reaction video made with security cam footage and jammed it together with a thank you letter to the devs and I'm really happy with how it turned out

 

Watch me embarrass myself here!

 

I've shared it in a bunch of the usual places in hopes of it reaching them and maybe making them smile

 

Man I can't wait for this game 😀

[Goury1]

 

4 hours ago, Glokidd said:

I spent most of today editing together a reaction video made with security cam footage and jammed it together with a thank you letter to the devs and I'm really happy with how it turned out

 

Watch me embarrass myself here!

 

I've shared it in a bunch of the usual places in hopes of it reaching them and maybe making them smile

 

Man I can't wait for this game 😀

My reaction was very similar! I started hyperventilating and had to force myself not to scream of joy! I didn't scream, because my grandpa  - with whom I live - is not aware of what adventure games or Monkey Island are. He would have thought that I went crazy or something. But if I was alone at the house, I would have definitely screamed from the bottom of my heart. I've watched the trailer contless times already and I still can't get enough of it! I 'm 36-years-old by the way, and I'm new to the forums so "hello"! 

[NightWalker]

Hi, everybody! In the first place I would like to be sorry for my bad English (I'm Spanish). I will try my best. Pardon me if I make many mistakes.

 

The most important thing is to share my happiness with you since a new Monkey Island game has been announced (and Ron is back!). I think this is an echo in the history of video games and graphic adventures. Fans have been waiting this moment since 30 years or more... I can't believe it yet... But it's great. I'm not very fond of the art style (I wouldn't like Guybrush was very alike to Animal Crossing characters), but... maybe even with that art style everything could work if the atmosphere was right (as many of you have stated before).

 

But it's amazing that Ron is going to make his "Monkey 3" at last. I still remember the interviews with him many years ago, when people asked him about "the secret of Monkey Island". I remember very fondly the long nights reading forums and posts about theories and analysis of the game. The ending of Monkey Island 2 was such a great moment in the history of video games and it had many heads blown up XD. I have replayed the first two games many times, trying to figure out the secret or looking for more clues. Back in the day, reading the clues in Ron's interviews was amazing, it made you to think about the secret a lot. I specially liked to thing about the anachronisms, since Ron Gilbert stated that they were important and hid a secret in the games. I hope we have an answer for good, we deserve it after 30 years pondering this great mystery.

 

I a gree with everybody here about the special/creepy/mysterious atmosphere of the first two games. I love Monkey 3 and 4 (Tales not so much, but I liked it), but there is something definitely different about the first two adventures. There is something weird and magical at the same time. I haven't felt anything similar with the others Monkey Island, just with the first two. It's just that, what you were saying, a creepy feeling below the Monkey head... That kind of thing is amazing. I remember that, when I played the games for the first time, I felt very uncomfortable at Mr. Rogers house... And that skeleton on the bath with that music. Even the tunnel inside the waterfall of Phatt Island made me feel nervous. It was a great feeling of mystery, as if something were lurking in the dark along the whole game. It's difficult to explain.

 

And, of course, the great and unique ending of Monkey 2 has a brilliant feeling and atmosphere. For me, the soundtrack in this point is absolutely outstanding. I'm still trying to figure out why a elevator would lend you to the lonely alley of Mëlée Island... Too many questions.

 

I love the comments on this post. I love the comments about Monkey 2 feeling depressing because Ron wanted to tell us something. If you remember, Guybrush lost even all his treasures at the beginning of the game. It's as if almost everything in Monkey 2 was a dark and a depressing version of what we lived in Monkey 1... Who knows. Anyway, I would like to write more things, but I'm a mess with English and my brain is steaming right now. Take care and I hope everybody enjoy this new Monkey Island game. I'm looking forward it!

Edited April 7, 2022 by NightWalker

[Goury1]

I'm very curious how Ron Gilbert will be able to tell his own version of the story and keep COMI as part of the Canon at the same time. I'm personally opting for a multiverse type of solution. It would give Ron the creative freedom to tell his own story and still keep COMI intact. It would also explain how Murray can be featured in the new game, even though we only meet him for the first time at the beginning of COMI. Maybe Guybrush will vistit alternative timelines at one point of RTMI and meet Murray there... Just a thought...  

Edited April 7, 2022 by Goury1

[Asterothe]

Where did Ron exactly say CMI will be cannon? 

[Udvarnoky]

Here. Although, it's a major open question as to what that actually means.

[Asterothe]

5 minutes ago, Udvarnoky said:

Here. Although, it's a major open question as to what that actually means.

Thank you. I hope this means still Return to MI is the real MI3a.  Ron always said Elaine would never marry Guybrush. Accepting CMI as it is would ruin the story. 

[Lagomorph01]

A story that’s never told cannot be ruïned. 😉

[Asterothe]

3 minutes ago, Lagomorph01 said:

A story that’s never told cannot be ruïned. 😉

True but I hope to hear  as much as possible close to the original story Ron had in mind.   Marriage  definitely would ruin it since it was clearly not part of it. 

[Goury1]

26 minutes ago, Asterothe said:

True but I hope to hear  as much as possible close to the original story Ron had in mind.   Marriage  definitely would ruin it since it was clearly not part of it. 

 I feel exactly the same! I've waited for many years to know Ron's version of the story! I would feel quite a bit sad if the plot of RTMI was somehow modified to make sure it dosn't contradict COMI. Getting to know Ron's original idea is what gets me excited the most about the new game...

[Udvarnoky]

32 minutes ago, Asterothe said:

Thank you. I hope this means still Return to MI is the real MI3a.  Ron always said Elaine would never marry Guybrush. Accepting CMI as it is would ruin the story. 

 

Ruin it for whom - your or Ron? I assume Ron is making the game he wants to make, but what that game looks like, and how he feels the other sequels may or may not factor into it, would surely have evolved over three decades. Heck, he's already indicated it has evolved substantially since 2013.

 

I fear some people are going to judge this game against their conception of some mythical version of MI3 circa 1992 (a game that doesn't exist and never did), which is gonna lead nowhere pleasant or even responsible. What we're getting is the Monkey Island he's decided he wants to make today -- whatever that might mean. Enjoy the ride!

[Goury1]

9 minutes ago, Udvarnoky said:

 

Ruin it for whom - your or Ron? I assume Ron is making the game he wants to make, but what that game looks like, and how he feels the other sequels may or may not factor into it, would surely have evolved over three decades. Heck, he's already indicated it has evolved substantially since 2013.

 

I fear some people are going to judge this game against their conception of some mythical version of MI3 circa 1992 (a game that doesn't exist and never did), which is gonna lead nowhere pleasant or even responsible. What we're getting is the Monkey Island he's decided he wants to make today -- whatever that might mean. Enjoy the ride!

 I will stand for Mr Gilbert and support him no matter what kind of creative decisions he made. I'm going to enjoy this new game no matter what. I just dearly hope that the whole "COMI is Canon" thing is his own creative idea, and not something that was forced upon him by the supervisors from Disney.

[Lagomorph01]

I’m not sure Disney is aware of wat “a Monkey Island” really is, let alone care anything about the creative side. They just care about getting their share.

When this thing starts printing money, then they will have always known what it was and supported the idea when no one else would. 😉

[Asterothe]

36 minutes ago, Udvarnoky said:

 

Ruin it for whom - your or Ron? I assume Ron is making the game he wants to make, but what that game looks like, and how he feels the other sequels may or may not factor into it, would surely have evolved over three decades. Heck, he's already indicated it has evolved substantially since 2013.

 

I fear some people are going to judge this game against their conception of some mythical version of MI3 circa 1992 (a game that doesn't exist and never did), which is gonna lead nowhere pleasant or even responsible. What we're getting is the Monkey Island he's decided he wants to make today -- whatever that might mean. Enjoy the ride!

 

For MI fans, that have been waiting the real conclusion of the story.  A good story definitely makes a game great. It being changed for some executive decision would be sad especially after having waited 30 years. I'd always take a MI game with Ron over without him (or any Ron adventure since he has to yet disappoint me) but as a purist and die hard MI1-2 fan I want the real MI3a. There will be changes and it won't be the game he would release in 1992 for sure but it has to be his conclusion picking up from the end of MI2.  And LucasFilm tweet even indicated that. So him saying CMI is cannot is a bit confusing. Barrowing from a few elements from CMI with a clever story telling is all I hope for. 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Asterothe

[Udvarnoky]

37 minutes ago, Goury1 said:

 I will stand for Mr Gilbert and support him no matter what kind of creative decisions he made. I'm going to enjoy this new game no matter what. I just dearly hope that the whole "COMI is Canon" thing is his own creative idea, and not something that was forced upon him by the supervisors from Disney.

 

The premise that any deviation from "what Ron really wants" must be Disney/Lucasfilm influence is sketchy because we of course have no way of discerning what those supposed deviations are.

 

I obviously have no way of knowing how much of a free hand Ron has been given (though the blunt "A Game by Ron Gilbert" is certainly Lucasfilm trading on the perception that he's the creative authority here), but it's very possible given past comments that he only agreed to this in exchange for final say. And if that's the case, who's gonna satisfy this need for a villain in the event of disappointment?

 

What I'm driving at here is that it's highly possible that Ron with absolute creative carte blanche will be delivering something quite a bit different than what many people have already decided in their own heads is "the true vision." I think a lot of frustration can be avoided if people susceptible to that thinking can see the illogic of it. This previaling notion of Ron having a fixed, shrinkwrapped schematic for MI3 since his LucasArts days that exists outside of time and now needs only to be "let out" is a myth, and one that doesn't really acknowledge the reality of how game development works.

[Asterothe]

2 minutes ago, Udvarnoky said:

This previaling notion of Ron having a fixed, shrinkwrapped idea for MI3 since his LucasArts days that now needs only to be "let out" is a myth, and one that doesn't really acknowledge the reality of how game development works.

Of course there was not a 100% set in stone story but there has to be a blue print, a skeleton of the story. Elaine marrying Guybrush would invalidate it.  

[Lagomorph01]

I agree with Jason. Cramping up about details like the whole marriage thing is something that will likely ruin the enjoyment of the game.
Ron will make what he wants to make now, not something he used to want to make. I’m sure it will be respectful of the characters and style of Monkey Island, marriage or not.

 

Plus seeing his own tweet said:

MI3 doesn't go out of canon. We were very careful about that.

So I’m pretty sure the people who won’t accept that are setting themselves up for dissapointment.