Return to Monkey Island 🚨GAME-WIDE🚨 Spoiler Chat

[Knight Owl]

I have returned from my spoiler hole. I... uhh... ok... huh... just... gonna read the thread

[Knight Owl]

I think I would have liked to see the ending in the weird theme park version of Melee last a bit longer – maybe have Guybrush comment on some more things, see some other characters, or more rooms. And then maybe build up to the secret in the chest just being the T-shirt. I think I like the direction they took but i was just *way* not ready for it to end that abruptly, haha. Like I didn't dislike it, but I definitely wasn't in a good mood as the credits rolled. I guess I wish the game stayed with me a bit more to talk about the themes and resolve some of the collateral damage Guybrush caused. Maybe, like, you get past the code wheel puzzle, there's a little cutscene with LeChuck, then you open up the chest and it's the T-Shirt. Guybrush says "wait, I'm not ready!" (or whatever that line was) and you find yourself in the Melee amusement park behind the church. Cut to title card: *Part 6: the secret.*  then you sort of just go through this weird version of melee island, talking to Elaine about your disappointment in the secret, sort of a Part 2 of their conversation on Monkey Island. And then after that sequence, then we go back to the park bench. Idk that's just an idea. I'm not upset.

 

I'm not upset!

 

I'm not upset...

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Knight Owl

[Joe monsters]

I thought the same thing when I finished it, but now I feel like being disappointed and a bit upset was part of what Ron Gilbert and Dave Grossman where looking for.

 

Guybrush is disappointed and feels like it’s over too soon, and we feel the exact same way.

 

I think that having a more fulfilling ending would have be too… well, fulfilling. We would just have witnessed Guybrush’s disappointment, not felt it with him.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Joe monsters

[Knight Owl]

Just now, Joe monsters said:

I thought the same thing when I finished it, but now I feel like being disappointed and a bit upset was part of what Ron Gilbert and Dave Grossman where looking for.

 

Guybrush is disappointed and feels like it’s over too soon, and it’s fascinating because we feel it as well.

 

I think that having a more fulfilling ending would be too… well, fulfilling. We would just have witnessed Guybrush’s disappointment, not felt it with him.

I know and I hate how genius that is. I just wanna feel good though😭!

[Gins]

I was kind of expecting to end up in the alley in the end of the game. During the cutscenes with LeChuck and Lila I saw the door and was crossing my fingers that it's not the end yet. I was in denial. Then walking through the door, indeed leading to the alley, simultaneously with Guybrush, I thought, no! Not yet!

[Knight Owl]

I'm curious to see if Ron will talk openly now about the history of the secret now that the game's out.

[Jake]

2 minutes ago, Knight Owl said:

I'm curious to see if Ron will talk openly now about the history of the secret now that the game's out.

I hope so too. 

[Gins]

One of the best things is, that the real MI3a was never made, so now we have a real addition to the mythos from the old team and the speculation of what could have been in in the 90s is still there.

 

We now have two exciting paths to take us back to the theme park whenever we want.

 

We are like the chums, a club of people telling each other stories. I think that is worth so much more than a definitive answer.

[Knight Owl]

So I've only played monkey island 1, 2, and this, but honestly, despite not knowing how I feel about the ending, I'm pretty sure this is my favorite so far. It was so fun to *actually think about solutions to puzzles in my head and have them turn out to be correct*. That never happened to me with 1 or 2. 

 

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if I end up liking Curse more when I get around to playing it, just because of how freaking gorgeous and atmospheric it is. (and I'm a sucker for frame by frame animation). We'll see!

Edited October 2, 2022 by Knight Owl

[LowLevel]

2 hours ago, Knight Owl said:

I'm curious to see if Ron will talk openly now about the history of the secret now that the game's out.

 

He must. Historians and master theses need material. 🧐

[Sadbrush]

2 hours ago, Knight Owl said:

I think I would have liked to see the ending in the weird theme park version of Melee last a bit longer – maybe have Guybrush comment on some more things, see some other characters, or more rooms. And then maybe build up to the secret in the chest just being the T-shirt. I think I like the direction they took but i was just *way* not ready for it to end that abruptly, haha. Like I didn't dislike it, but I definitely wasn't in a good mood as the credits rolled.

 

Yeah, this was pretty much my experience playing through the first time. I kind of wish we could have seen all the "behind the scenes" locations of Mêlée Island and visited those cardboard versions for the last time. I really felt Boybrush's disappointment when the story comes to a sudden halt after all that massive buildup. 

 

I'm not upset about it anymore, but I don't think the impact of the ending would have been hurt by giving us a few more moments to linger in that world.

 

2 hours ago, Knight Owl said:

So I've only played monkey island 1, 2, and this, but honestly, despite not knowing how I feel about the ending, I'm pretty sure this is my favorite so far. It was so fun to *actually think about solutions to puzzles in my head and have them turn out to be correct*. That never happened to me with 1 or 2. 

 

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if I end up liking Curse more when I get around to playing it, just because of how freaking gorgeous and atmospheric it is. (and I'm a sucker for frame by frame animation). We'll see!

 

Man, it will be weird playing through Curse after getting this ending. I honestly wonder how it will register while seeing that alternate continuation of MI2. I guess you can experience it through Boybrush's point of view and pretend you're being told one of Guybrush's stories for the first time.

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Sadbrush

[Pinchpenny]

Hello! I finished Return last night and have spent a long time reading through this thread. I love everyone's opinions and analysis. Thanks for sharing them.

 

I've got many thoughts swirling in my brain about Return and I wanted to plonk them down somewhere, so figured this was a good place for it. I'm not sure if they'll be interesting thoughts, and it's going to be scattergun, but it might help me figure out my feelings.

 

• I'm so glad the scrapbook exists and it acknowledges all the Monkey Island games. I love them all in different ways. Every time there was an in-game reference to Curse, Escape, or Tales, I was delighted -- I wish there were a few more, but I'll take what I can get. I also wish Herman wasn't retconned to not being a Marley, just because the idea of Ron and Dave sticking with Escape's controversial twist amuses me greatly.
• The opening Boybrush twist took me completely by surprise. I knew I was in for a good ride after that.
• Murray is a legend. You can never have enough Murray.
• When Return was announced, I was reserved about the new art style. However, my concerns immediately vanished when I began playing. In motion it looks absolutely stunning. The colours are vibrant and varied, the close-ups are funny and dynamic, and it's packed full of details. I particularly liked all the creatures lurking in the backgrounds.
• I found a lot of the interactions with Elaine to be quite unsettling. I appreciate this is a weird take, but: Guybrush seems surprised to see her on Melee, her photo with Guybrush is torn, she appears out of nowhere on Monkey Island, she knows how to get to Monkey without a potion, she coincidentally came to fix the Sea Monkey. At the end, where you're going through Monkey forest with her and Guybrush is struggling to keep up with her pace, I wondered if the distance between them would keep increasing before Guybrush is left alone. I was almost expecting Guybrush to have died when he got pushed off the Monkey cliff (with everything else following being a dream) or Elaine to be a figment of his imagination.
• I completed Return without using any hints and I'm happy about that. For me, it was the perfect difficulty because I was never stumped for too long. I can see why some people found it too easy, though, especially as the interface immediately shows that you can't use/combine items (which I welcomed -- the brute force 'try everything on everything' is tedious).
• Bit disappointed I didn't get an achievement for completing it without hints.
• How did Wally know where the secret of Monkey Island was? I might have missed that explanation.
• I like that the hover text shows Guybrush's thoughts, rather than just the name of the item. That's a simple change but it works well.
• Scurvy and Terror were nice islands, but felt slightly hollow. There were points on Scurvy's map that you couldn't visit, which was disappointing. On Terror, it had lots of places to go but nothing to do and no-one to talk to. Cut content perhaps? I wish these were more fleshed out. I can't see these becoming iconic islands.
• On the other hand, I really liked Brrr Muda. There wasn't loads to explore, but it felt lived in and meaningful.
• I enjoyed the act on LeChuck's ship where you're mingling with the crew, getting to know them, and helping them out. I respect Flambe's dedication to relaxation.
• You'll never replace Earl Boen, but the new LeChuck actor did an excellent job. Just the right blend of sinister and silly.
• I played all the old games directly before starting Return and Dominic Armato's voice acting is, as always, fantastic, but noticeably different. There's still the classic upbeat Guybrush, but at times he sounds more world-weary. It worked really well for the character and themes of the game.
• So many inventory items were paper-based, like books, pamphlets, notes, diaries, etc. I know this sounds petty, but I wish there was more variety in the items you carried.
• The trivia book was a fun addition, though thought it odd that it spoilt some things -- I found out Herman would appear in the game through a question, for example. I would have liked to discover that naturally. I also wish I knew that you had to answer them to generate more cards because that explains why I stopped getting them at a certain point. I'm keen to go back and collect them all.
• The music is fantastic. The way it blends between the tracks is excellent. I crave a soundtrack release ASAP.
• I've never been particularly interested in finding out what the secret of Monkey Island is, even when I first played the original. I just saw it as a fun framing device for a piratey adventure. Plus, now so much time has passed that any answer will be unsatisfying. I thought Return handled this concept spectacularly, with regular hints from characters that you shouldn't build things up. For me, the ending was perfect because it lets you take from it what you want. I'm still trying to figure out what I want.
• Guybrush on the bench at the end nearly made me cry.
• Please don't let this be the last Monkey Island game. But I'm content if it is.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Pinchpenny

[Thrik]

4 hours ago, Pinchpenny said:

So many inventory items were paper-based, like books, pamphlets, notes, diaries, etc. I know this sounds petty, but I wish there was more variety in the items you carried.

Hey, you got an apology frog!

[Sadbrush]

4 hours ago, Pinchpenny said:

• I found a lot of the interactions with Elaine to be quite unsettling. I appreciate this is a weird take, but: Guybrush seems surprised to see her on Melee, her photo with Guybrush is torn, she appears out of nowhere on Monkey Island, she knows how to get to Monkey without a potion, she coincidentally came to fix the Sea Monkey. At the end, where you're going through Monkey forest with her and Guybrush is struggling to keep up with her pace, I wondered if the distance between them would keep increasing before Guybrush is left alone. I was almost expecting Guybrush to have died when he got pushed off the Monkey cliff (with everything else following being a dream) or Elaine to be a figment of his imagination.

 

That's a cool take. She definitely seems to be omnipresent, which almost felt like a deus ex machina at times. I was also curious about that tumble he takes off the cliff, which seems unsurvivable (same concept as holding his breath, I guess) and wondered if there was some twist in store. The other thing is that it really seems like they were split up or separated for a time. There's like a gulf between them, even though they say all the right words to each other. I really wish we knew the devs intentions with this; it's one of those things that feels almost purposeful, but I don't know what the right interpretation is. Some have likened it to a "therapist" role, which takes a very specific stance, but I'm wondering if they were on a break for some time and are basically treading on eggshells.

[Colorfinger]

On 9/29/2022 at 6:49 AM, ThunderPeel2001 said:

it might have been better for Guybrush to finally kill LeChuck, only for him to fall over like a cardboard cutout. Or something like that.

 

This would have been such a fun rug pull. There was an old episode of The Prisoner that did something similar.

[LuigiHann]

13 hours ago, Knight Owl said:

I think I would have liked to see the ending in the weird theme park version of Melee last a bit longer – maybe have Guybrush comment on some more things, see some other characters, or more rooms. And then maybe build up to the secret in the chest just being the T-shirt. I think I like the direction they took but i was just *way* not ready for it to end that abruptly, haha. Like I didn't dislike it, but I definitely wasn't in a good mood as the credits rolled. I guess I wish the game stayed with me a bit more to talk about the themes and resolve some of the collateral damage Guybrush caused. Maybe, like, you get past the code wheel puzzle, there's a little cutscene with LeChuck, then you open up the chest and it's the T-Shirt. Guybrush says "wait, I'm not ready!" (or whatever that line was) and you find yourself in the Melee amusement park behind the church. Cut to title card: *Part 6: the secret.*  then you sort of just go through this weird version of melee island, talking to Elaine about your disappointment in the secret, sort of a Part 2 of their conversation on Monkey Island. And then after that sequence, then we go back to the park bench. Idk that's just an idea. I'm not upset.

 

I'm not upset!

 

I'm not upset...

 

 

Yeah, I wasn't terribly bothered by how the ending played out, but I did feel like there could have been one more real interaction before it ended, to make it feel like a finale. Even if getting the key (or getting the key to the chest) was a simple puzzle, would have been nice

[ThunderPeel2001]

23 hours ago, Hube said:

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, it's utilized plenty-- I am just curious as to how else this could have been further implemented in the story, or how it might be used in a future entry. For example, I would have liked to see it be a more direct threat to Guybrush...

 

I agree. The Dark Magic plotline felt largely unexplored. (eg. Why is it different to Voodoo? What would happen if Guybrush starting it? Or LeChuck?, etc.)

[Knight Owl]

11 hours ago, Sadbrush said:

 

Yeah, this was pretty much my experience playing through the first time. I kind of wish we could have seen all the "behind the scenes" locations of Mêlée Island and visited those cardboard versions for the last time. I really felt Boybrush's disappointment when the story comes to a sudden halt after all that massive buildup. 

 

I'm not upset about it anymore, but I don't think the impact of the ending would have been hurt by giving us a few more moments to linger in that world.

 

 

Man, it will be weird playing through Curse after getting this ending. I honestly wonder how it will register while seeing that alternate continuation of MI2. I guess you can experience it through Boybrush's point of view and pretend you're being told one of Guybrush's stories for the first time.

 

Nah I know what happens in curse haha

 

 

I have a question for everyone: if you were in charge of making the next game, how would you frame it? Does it take place after the park bench at the end of RtMI and follow up on Elaine’s little cliffhanger? Is it a totally self contained story? Do you keep the framing device of guybrush telling the story to his son, or someone else?

Edited October 2, 2022 by Knight Owl
Didn’t mean for these posts to be merged but whatever

[ThunderPeel2001]

1 hour ago, Knight Owl said:

I have a question for everyone: if you were in charge of making the next game, how would you frame it? Does it take place after the park bench at the end of RtMI and follow up on Elaine’s little cliffhanger? Is it a totally self contained story? Do you keep the framing device of guybrush telling the story to his son, or someone else?

 

I say that you side-step the framing device from now on. Just to keep in tone with the other sequels. Unless you're going to add something with the framing, it doesn't serve the story you're going to tell to mention it again. Plus it makes it more ambiguous.

[BaronGrackle]

2 hours ago, Knight Owl said:

Nah I know what happens in curse haha

 

 

I have a question for everyone: if you were in charge of making the next game, how would you frame it? Does it take place after the park bench at the end of RtMI and follow up on Elaine’s little cliffhanger? Is it a totally self contained story? Do you keep the framing device of guybrush telling the story to his son, or someone else?

A Diplomacy tabletop variant. Either focusing on this Caribbean (Tri-Island Pirates, Undead Pirates, Phatt Island, Skull Island Smugglers, Australian Developers, Vaycaylian Merfolk, Brrr Muda), or on Monkey Island itself (Cannibals, LeChuck, Herman, Jojo, Madison).

[LuigiHann]

2 hours ago, Knight Owl said:

I have a question for everyone: if you were in charge of making the next game, how would you frame it? Does it take place after the park bench at the end of RtMI and follow up on Elaine’s little cliffhanger? Is it a totally self contained story? Do you keep the framing device of guybrush telling the story to his son, or someone else?

 

If I'm leading a third-party team without Ron Gilbert on board, I'd probably play it safe and do a story set after the main story of RtMI, not really addressing the frame story.

 

If in this scenario I'm working with Ron, I'd probably pitch a game set some years after the frame story, with an aging Guybrush who has largely moved on from Adventuring being called back into action one more time. Have Boybrush appear, older now, and maybe hint at an eventual passing of the torch. 

[JacquesSparkyTail]

2 hours ago, Knight Owl said:

I have a question for everyone: if you were in charge of making the next game, how would you frame it? Does it take place after the park bench at the end of RtMI and follow up on Elaine’s little cliffhanger? Is it a totally self contained story? Do you keep the framing device of guybrush telling the story to his son, or someone else?

It’s a good question. Do the surrealist meta elements become the main theme of the series from now on or does it stay a simple but enjoyable pirate franchise. If ron and dave keep it going what would they prefer? If someone else takes over will they feel obligated to lean further in to the weirdness? 
 

If it were me i think i’d make a straight pirate game with occasional references to the weirdness and some background details that hint toward answering some of the questions this game brought up. You’d really have to dig for them though and they wouldn’t give you that much. 

[Jake]

2 hours ago, Knight Owl said:

I have a question for everyone: if you were in charge of making the next game, how would you frame it? Does it take place after the park bench at the end of RtMI and follow up on Elaine’s little cliffhanger? Is it a totally self contained story? Do you keep the framing device of guybrush telling the story to his son, or someone else?

I think I’d want something that played it straight, but maybe allude to it a little bit. Like, if the game opened with a little sliver of Guybrush narration, the slimmest reference to it being a frame story or being somehow recounted, but was otherwise just a rollicking adventure. I feel like Return existing means a next game doesn’t HAVE to get deep into this if it doesn’t want to, it just has to be aware that it happened, and players’ brains will do the rest on their own. 

[Colorfinger]

4 hours ago, Knight Owl said:

I have a question for everyone: if you were in charge of making the next game, how would you frame it?

 

An ultra-dark story about how Guybrush works as a flooring inspector in a theme park (except for real, no allusions to pirating) and uses fantasy with the figures to escape his incredibly mundane life.

 

Also a new game should include him revealing the biggest monkey head he’s ever seen.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Colorfinger

[ThunderPeel2001]

AIs are writing news now, it seems? There goes the future of Mixnmojo... 

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001