Details of Return to Monkey Island

[KestrelPi]

11 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

Yes. It utterly blows my "is reality actually a world where pirates still thrive?" idea out of the water. Reality is, indeed, modern day 😮

I don't know, I think there's a level of ambiguity about what Guybrush's world is like. He and elaine are still dressed like they are in the games, and the place ostensibly uses pieces of eight as currency, even after the layers of imagination are stripped back the food place sells things called scurvy dogs, and grog. And at the end Elaine talks about a treasure hunt for her and Guybrush to go on, and also Boybrush mentions something about wanting to watch the Galleon leaving.

 

I sort of got the impression that the world we find them in is like the present world, but a slightly more pirate-themed version of it.

[madmardi]

1 hour ago, KestrelPi said:

I don't know, I think there's a level of ambiguity about what Guybrush's world is like. He and elaine are still dressed like they are in the games, and the place ostensibly uses pieces of eight as currency, even after the layers of imagination are stripped back the food place sells things called scurvy dogs, and grog. And at the end Elaine talks about a treasure hunt for her and Guybrush to go on, and also Boybrush mentions something about wanting to watch the Galleon leaving.

 

I sort of got the impression that the world we find them in is like the present world, but a slightly more pirate-themed version of it.

 

Interesting. The way I took it the whole scene on the bench was still part of his carnival fantasies. The story was over so it was time to go 'wake up' and go home. Part of my interpretation of the long pause was that the adventure Elaine whispered in his ear will have to wait for another park visit.

 

Anyone else think that Boybrush and the entire prologue was still part of the "adventures" that Guybrush was having at Stan's pirate adventure park?

[madmardi]

38 minutes ago, madmardi said:

Part of my interpretation of the long pause was that the adventure Elaine whispered in his ear will have to wait for another park visit.

 

Or.. maybe this was even one of Stan's marketing gimmicks to hook Guybrush to keep coming back...

[KestrelPi]

36 minutes ago, madmardi said:

 

Interesting. The way I took it the whole scene on the bench was still part of his carnival fantasies. The story was over so it was time to go 'wake up' and go home. Part of my interpretation of the long pause was that the adventure Elaine whispered in his ear will have to wait for another park visit.

 

Anyone else think that Boybrush and the entire prologue was still part of the "adventures" that Guybrush was having at Stan's pirate adventure park?

 

I talked about this idea earlier in the main thread (which this is maybe a better topic for) but the short answer for me is that I don't think that - I don't think the game ultimately lays enough groundwork to make 'actually we're still in the fantasies' work for me as an explanation. It's an interesting idea, but I think, as it stands, it would somewhat cheapen the impact of the prelude where I think there is a really, super clear implication that what we're being let in on is a 'realer' interpretation of the ending of MI2. I think to back out of that and say 'nah, it's actually all still imaginary' is overly convoluted. 

 

When Guybrush tells Boybrush the story, he tells him about Stan's park - we know this because Boybrush reacts that it's a silly ending. So to me that moment at the end is Guybrush remembering the last time he went to the park, before he moved on with his life and let his adventures live on in the stories he would later tell his kid. And I take the stories themselves to be a mixture of real things that happened to him and elaine, and imagined adventures at Stan's park.

[ThunderPeel2001]

4 hours ago, KestrelPi said:

I don't know, I think there's a level of ambiguity about what Guybrush's world is like. He and elaine are still dressed like they are in the games, and the place ostensibly uses pieces of eight as currency, even after the layers of imagination are stripped back the food place sells things called scurvy dogs, and grog. And at the end Elaine talks about a treasure hunt for her and Guybrush to go on, and also Boybrush mentions something about wanting to watch the Galleon leaving.

 

I sort of got the impression that the world we find them in is like the present world, but a slightly more pirate-themed version of it.

 

That's absolutely what I thought... until I noticed the background changing.

 

The world is 100% modern until the couple says goodbye... and then "Weenies" becomes Scurvy Dogs and the pirate world of grog and pieces of eight.

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[KestrelPi]

10 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

That's absolutely what I thought... until I noticed the background changing.

 

The world is 100% modern until the couple says goodbye... and then "Weenies" becomes Scurvy Dogs and the pirate world of grog and pieces of eight.

 

I guess I'm not getting why that matters?

[Thrik]

This is from the pre-release thread but it’s still compelling I think, especially given Ron’s cryptic post on Twitter a while back asking why Guybrush arrives on Melee Island via the arch and not via the docks — something he does again in Return.

 

 

* Archway? Park entrance?

* Guybrush and blind Melee lookout stand in the same place as Guybrush and deaf Booty lookout relative to the entrance?

* Big Whoop is Booty Town but also not? And in Return now a seaside park too?

* Big Whoop ticket desk is Captain Dread’s ship?

* Guybrush arrives on Melee expecting weenies, which happen to be next to the Big Whoop entrance?

* You also start Monkey Island 2 next to a weenie shop?????

[LowLevel]

Oh, silly me, I've noticed only now that BrrrMuda is... triangle-shaped.

 

 

(and its quarry is also triangle-shaped)

 

((and that in the sea map the island has no castle))

[BaronGrackle]

18 hours ago, Thrik said:

This is from the pre-release thread but it’s still compelling I think, especially given Ron’s cryptic post on Twitter a while back asking why Guybrush arrives on Melee Island via the arch and not via the docks — something he does again in Return.

 

 

* Archway? Park entrance?

* Guybrush and blind Melee lookout stand in the same place as Guybrush and deaf Booty lookout relative to the entrance?

* Big Whoop is Booty Town but also not? And in Return now a seaside park too?

* Big Whoop ticket desk is Captain Dread’s ship?

* Guybrush arrives on Melee expecting weenies, which happen to be next to the Big Whoop entrance?

* You also start Monkey Island 2 next to a weenie shop?????

Add to this: Elaine is the governor at the mansion.

[KestrelPi]

Picking up from a bit earlier in the thread, I just don't think I can buy the idea that we start off with the kids imagining the end of Monkey Island 2, break out of that into something approximating the real world and then submerge again into a different pirate fantasy when we take control. I think they were imagining a fancy carnival and then we get to see the slightly gross park underneath, and I didn't once think to question that when I was playing.

 

Another thing which I think makes it more likely is the way the SPIT FUN banner has RUN pasted over it. Why would Boybrush be imagining a race instead of a spitting contest if the idea is that he's now imagining the world as more gross and piratey?

 

That said, I think the wishing well is there to show us that there is some room for the boundary between imaginitive play and reality here, and that not everything we see on screen at any one time is either necessarily all real or all imagined.

Edited September 30, 2022 by KestrelPi

[BillyCheers]

Just discovered that when you ask Wally about the signs in Mêlée Town, he says that he designed them on Madison's behalf. 

 

This is another one of those nice details that brings the world to life, as you realize that the characters are also acting independently of you. This was done very well in MI1 and 2 too, especially on Mêlée Island (The store owner, Carla and Captain Smirk all know each other, everyone already has a rubber chicken from the Voodoo Lady etc.).

 

EDIT:

When you win the three contests, the queen's ice sculpture on Brrr Muda turns into one of Guybrush's (if you haven't melted it before by lighting the torch Next to it) and the pictures in the courtroom and the town hall are now pictures of him too. There are also one or two new dialogue lines when talking to the people there. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by BillyCheers

[FancyPants]

Hi! I have a question.

On the scrap book there is a missing photo, one that "fell off". At first i thought it had to be wally related but after freeing him on my second playthorugh still nothing. Am i missing something?

 

On the same note, why the memento regarding LeChuck secrets is a flower?

[Romão]

The music you can hear here:

 

 

 

Is quoting this:

 

 

 

And what follows:

 

 

Is also quoting this:

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Romão

[LowLevel]

1 hour ago, FancyPants said:

On the same note, why the memento regarding LeChuck secrets is a flower?

 

I thought about it and could not come up with an acceptable answer.

Perhaps the flower was related to LeChuck's diary, but it is unlikely that he used a flower as a bookmark, and the diary has no markings to suggest this.

Since it is a yellow flower, it could be a reference to the yellow flowers used in MI1 or those outside the Governor's Mansion on Melee Island.

 

----

Since I am reading a lot of posts about music, I suggest an experiment. When I first played MI1, I was mesmerized by the total absence of music in some places in Melee. So I suggest you give it a try: keep all the other sounds on, but turn off the music and visit the places in Melee that had no music in MI1, such as low street or the docks. 🙂

 

It will make you appreciate the ambience sounds as well.

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by LowLevel

[LuigiHann]

1 hour ago, FancyPants said:

Hi! I have a question.

On the scrap book there is a missing photo, one that "fell off". At first i thought it had to be wally related but after freeing him on my second playthorugh still nothing. Am i missing something?

 

It took me a bit to get it, but I think the intention is that the missing item was a memento relating to whatever the secret is, so the fact that we don't get to see it makes sense

[LowLevel]

I am not sure if this detail has been discussed before, but I think there is no doubt that getting drunk and hanging on a chandelier can only lead to bad consequences:

 

[Intransient]

I’ve been obsessing over Guybrush coming back to the alleyway at the end of the game and saying “Not yet!”

 

It’s such a delicious detail to unpack and ponder. Not so much an exclamation of surprise as inevitability. Is a spell wearing off? A ride stopping? The ending coming too soon?

[JacquesSparkyTail]

6 hours ago, FancyPants said:

Hi! I have a question.

On the scrap book there is a missing photo, one that "fell off". At first i thought it had to be wally related but after freeing him on my second playthorugh still nothing. Am i missing something?

 

On the same note, why the memento regarding LeChuck secrets is a flower?

His favourite food is tentacles with daisy sauce. I think it might be random which ingredient you need to go and get but i’ve got tentacles from the beach in one playthrough and daisies from near the monkey head in another. Not sure what you’re talking about in regards to a missing photo. Pic? 

[cinnamon]

I'm also wondering about the missing photo. It's under the photo of Wally being chained up. I was thinking it might have to do something with rescuing Wally but evidently this is not the case. 

 

One of the many details I liked in the game was that you could show the clure to Bella Fisher's corpse and tell her stories, even after Guybrush destroys her ship, to which he comments that she still looks angry after the story. I'm not sure if any story path can have a different impact on the corpse.

[Gins]

20 minutes ago, cinnamon said:

I'm also wondering about the missing photo. It's under the photo of Wally being chained up. I was thinking it might have to do something with rescuing Wally but evidently this is not the case. 

 

One of the many details I liked in the game was that you could show the clure to Bella Fisher's corpse and tell her stories, even after Guybrush destroys her ship, to which he comments that she still looks angry after the story. I'm not sure if any story path can have a different impact on the corpse.

I wish there was a non-obvious/hard way to make everybody happy while the obvious/easy way would leave the current trail of destruction, like with Wally.

 

E.g. give the Xyzzy sign to Herman and have Elaine rescue you instead.

 

Or somehow not destroy the Mop Tree or treat the crown with more respect.

 

It could add a layer to the game and replayability, and a kind of dynamic difficulty.

 

Like the optional puzzles in the intro.

[madmardi]

2 hours ago, JacquesSparkyTail said:

His favourite food is tentacles with daisy sauce. I think it might be random which ingredient you need to go and get but i’ve got tentacles from the beach in one playthrough and daisies from near the monkey head in another. 

 

I didn't know you could pick up the daisies! Does this randomly change each time you play?!

[RobDangerous]

26 minutes ago, madmardi said:

 

I didn't know you could pick up the daisies! Does this randomly change each time you play?!

For me it was daisies in easy mode (only tried once though) and tentacles in hard mode (tried, uhm, maybe three times).

[ThunderPeel2001]

11 hours ago, LowLevel said:

Since I am reading a lot of posts about music, I suggest an experiment. When I first played MI1, I was mesmerized by the total absence of music in some places in Melee. So I suggest you give it a try: keep all the other sounds on, but turn off the music and visit the places in Melee that had no music in MI1, such as low street or the docks.

 

I actually turned down the music during one playthrough, too. I don't know, the music is great, but it... never lets up (or it rarely does). A bit of ambiance is nice at times.

 

Also noticed...

 

 

Anyone know what you can do with the image of the chef??

 

And an interesting bit of foreshadowing..

 

 

 

And I'm sure this must have already been explained in this thread? The history of XYZZY.

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[Garystu]

People have discussed setting accounts with Wally already, but his dialogue in the scene at the end where he's chained up also changes a little bit based on if you paid him or not. If you don't pay him, Guybrush mentions how Wally did all that work for free. If you do pay him, Guybrush says the sea map was expensive, but it all worked out. Then Wally questions what Guybrush means by "everything working out".

 

Also, if you free Wally without talking to him first, he doesn't tell Guybrush to get out of his life. He doesn't say anything, and silently just runs off.

[ThunderPeel2001]

35 minutes ago, Guybrush Transmasc said:

Also, if you free Wally without talking to him first, he doesn't tell Guybrush to get out of his life. He doesn't say anything, and silently just runs off.

 

Strange. I swear he didn't say anything to me and I DID talk to him... maybe there's a specific line that triggers his line that I missed? (Or I'm just misremembering)