Remi Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Ok, now that we it's "official" and what not, I'd be interested to hear what people actually thinks about the ending. I know some people think it's a cop out in a "then they woke up" kind of way, but I don't really agree with that myself. Seeing that there are hints throughout the game, and the fact that it has been discussed up and down for the past ten years I think the ending was quite good myself. Sorta in a Mulholland Drive kind of way. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercatfat Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 It's brilliant comedic tradgedy. I like it, but I don't like to think outside my boundries and theorize things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicardoLuigi... Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 ugh, i don't even want to think about that anymore. the ending was completely dreadful. the whole voodoo doll idea that you even had to make one and rip its leg off, was an okay idea, but a bit tiring. having him show up in every other room, it took me forever to finish even with a walkthrough, because he kept zapping me away from the room before i could even get the task done. it was so annoying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Denial Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Yeah, I mean, thinking about it is really bad!! I remember the first time i played it and finished it, I thought: What the hell, what is this??? Then i thought there must be another game coming out So i waited for a few years and.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrik Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Did you read the ending revelation thing A_Denial? It's on the SCUMM Bar if not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPeel2001 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Tim and Dave were right to talk Ron out of it. Shame they couldn't have thought of something better for MI2 Basically, I don't think it works. I understand it, even in a Calvin and Hobbes sort of way, and it simply doesn't work. The difference with Calvin and Hobbes is that it's not important to the story. Plus you get told it's Calvin's imagination all the time. The difference with MI2 is that it's a _Character_ and huge story that works hard to engross you. Then at the end it goes, "just kidding!". That doesn't work, it's cheating the audience, it isn't part of the STORY, it's just thrown at you from left-field. And I know RemiO believes there were sufficient clues, but quite simply, there weren't. They were little pieces of "background", nothing to honestly make you question the "RealiltY" of what you're seeing.... and before you say "well, that makes it all the more effective" just let me say: "I disagree" ~ Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 It never says "just kidding..." at all. It says "hes really a kid" but there are a billion ways they "could have" gone with that and still keep the fantasy v. reality thing going. Regardless, I was fine with it. Even in the first game the voodoo lady hints that its all a ruse and you're just sorta confused and its in your head. I'm confused. It was good. Watch Mulholland Drive, and then think about Monkey Island 2. You will be pleased, that or you are ignorant.* ¬ ¬ *, or I am a bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPeel2001 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I admit I STILL haven't seen Mulholland Dr (and I hang around in circles where that's a cardinal sin) so I'll have to hold my tongue until then -- BUT! They DO say "just kidding". I'll explain: Guybrush has two huge adventures. He falls in love, out of love. We meet tons of characters and visit tons of places. We help him through a great big story line and fall in love with the universe he's in. Only to be told: "It's all fake! Non of the characters exist! You don't even know Guybrush, because he's really a kid!" THE END. At no point is it *seriously* hinted that what we're doing may be a child's dream. So in a way you feel cheated when you find it out (at least I did). If the game had had more to do with what "reality" means or had themes about fantasies then it wouldn't have been a con, it would have been poinant. I honestly feel the "it's all a dream" ending came pretty much out of the blue for everyone who played it and it would seem just as appropriate (or inappropriate at the end of Full Throtte or Grim Fandango or even The Dig. Any LEC adventure game really! Anyway, tired of talking about this now! I'm sure you understand my feelings! Now, I really must go and watch Mulholland Dr! ~ Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remi Posted February 17, 2003 Author Share Posted February 17, 2003 You really must watch Mulholland Drive! Then you'll most likely go back on "Non[e] of the characters exist!" Personally I found there to be a lot of hints in the second game (and really in the first game too) which explains the ending. The whole "Guybrush is a kid with a wild imagination" was something I accepted as the ending on the second play-through. I was actually surprised to see so many people resisting it when I first found some MI pages on the web back in '96. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I'm really in two minds about this. I never saw Mulholland Drive but something tells me i should (actually 2 people are telling me to, but never mind). i mean, i played MI" the first time and was dissapointed about the ending because it ended abruptly. okay, so there's a sequel (which i actually played before playing MI2 because of availability problems at the time) which means that it didn't end abruptly, it just didn't carry on until that sequel. but then because i played MI2 after CMI, i knew that CMI didn't explain anything. and so i was dissapointed. but then i reluctantly played it again and found all of the hints of the childs imagination thing and wasn't as much dissapointed at the ending the second time, as i basically found it acceptable. but, i didn't like it anymore than the first time round. I agree with thunderpeel, we are made to fall in love with this story and we feel like we're living it as the story goes on only to have it shattered completely by five minutes of cutscene which hardly seems right at all. i think Ron gilbert could have actually done better if he was allowed to drop this bombshell in MI1 as it would have been less of an impact us only playing a short game and plus i think he would have been given more freedom to drop bigger hints of guybrush's situation so we were a little more prepared for it and could just sit there and think, ahh, now it makes sense, that was pretty good. of course if that happened, we would have a saga like we have now, but it still would have been a timeless classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skate Boy Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I just beat, MI2, like, five minutes ago, and I thought the ending sucked a three headed monkey. I was disapointed with it, they could have thought of something better. Now I have to play the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayel Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 I never seriously considered the child's imagination theory upon beating MI2. Chucky's eyes and Elaine waiting over the chasm at the end left me saying "no, it can't be" They may have been a copout addition to make room for a sequel, but at least they provided me with *some* comfort that the fantasy wasn't over. (the ending did get me mad, though, because it didn't seem to reach any closure) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 I'm not saying that it wasn't a bit brief and unsatisfying, but I just never had a huge problem with the "its a fantasy" idea, is all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannar85 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Originally posted by RemiO Ok, now that we it's "official" and what not.... Huh? Ron has revealed the secret? Anyway, the ending was fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamNMax Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Good. People are seeing that you you diside the ending. Anyway, here's my ending: Guybrush was very sad about his parents abandoning him. LeChuck found a way to turn that into a weakness for Guybrush. LeChuck found out when Guybrush had the Bone Dance dream. LeChuck invaded his dream with the help of his Voodoo Servent. When Guybrush made the voodoo doll in the tunnles, LeChuck was scared of the doll, but he would have his revange. Right when the leg was ripped off, a spell was casted on Guybrush. It made him think he was a kid. He could have fought it off, but he's so happy to see his parents, he beleives he is in the past. Because he was abandoned at a carnaval. When his family get's on the bumper cars, Guybrush chooses one next to the wall that goes around the ride. LeChuck rams Guybrush before he can move. The car and Guybrush go flying through the wall and out of Monkey Island. Once Guybrush reaches the boundrys of the Island, the spell was broken. When Guybrush reached sea, he didn't remember his parents or the kid stuff, or the brother stuff. But, he still, and always will remember the Carnaval of the Dammed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remi Posted February 18, 2003 Author Share Posted February 18, 2003 Um, no, in case you haven't seen it, you might want to read this interview. If you want to start a "What I wish the ending really was about!" discussion you might want to start another topic for that, as it can get kinda silly having two discussion topics running in one thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueZTone Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 I'm quite confident with the ending of mi2. I like it. Cause I can identify myself with it I guess. I mean, Guybrush isn't the only kid who's had these kind of fantasies whilst walking through a theme park like that. Didn't we all dress up as a pirate at carnavals as kids? I know I did. Monkey Island 1 and 2 are great games with great endings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 i also had (have) a huge imagination and i do at times fantasise abouta life like that (not so much a pirate, but something other than what i am, not saying i'm not pleased with what i am, but i think we all want to be something better don't we?) but frankly, i'm always in the knowledge that it's not going to happen. and yes, i can relate to guybrush in that way, but that doesn't make the ending any better for me, i still feel a sense of betrayl as we've been led to believe all of this in the game and now we're shot down by this ending. that's my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryback Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 I'm with Remi, I think it's a great ending. It's foreshadowed right from the beginning, with constant references to Guybrush's age, (in MI2) his lack-of-beard, and a bunch of characters who look like pirates but don't really act like pirates. And in the second game it's made a big deal of how Guybrush misses his parents and LeChuck trying to track him down - if the ending is fake and Chuckie isn't his brother and those aren't his parents then the whole game has basically been about nothing. Lastly, I like how the ending adds an extra layer of meaning to the games. Because it's not a 'it was all a dream' ending - Guybrush doesn't make up Monkey Island out of pure imagination, he bases it on the sights he sees at the amusement park. I can remember replaying through the games with this in mind, wondering which characters were based on people Guybrush might have met at the amusement park (The Voodoo Lady, the Men of Low Moral Fibre), and those that probably weren't (I doubt Governor Phatt would find gainful employment, frex). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I think the ending must of worked well. It leaves you thinking making you think about it and how the rest of the story could be leading up to it. but in the end it must of left people thinking cos here we are 10 years on still tring to work it out. A game your left thinking about is a game you'll remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 True, it did make me think, much like the 'Sixth Sense' or a 'Beautiful Mind' (although i won't spoil them for those who haven't seen them), it made me re-think everything that happened in the game and try adn work it out. that was teh fun part, but i still couldn't chake the small feeling of betrayl. this was drowned out by the great humour and storytelling of the game(s) but it was still a little annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flirbnic Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Originally posted by ThunderPeel2001 Guybrush has two huge adventures. He falls in love, out of love. We meet tons of characters and visit tons of places. We help him through a great big story line and fall in love with the universe he's in. Only to be told: "It's all fake! Non of the characters exist! You don't even know Guybrush, because he's really a kid!" It's also entirely a fictional story. The fact that Guybrush is a kid doesn't make it any less fake. There's no reason to feel any sort of betrayal. The story that played out in Guybrush's imagination is still a story. I think it does make the whole story much more meaningful... If Guybrush isn't a kid, then the anachronisms are merely jokes, for example. Also, I can relate to the story, since I had fantasies about Monkey Island and even acted out some of the scenes by myself when I was young... (And I know I'm not the only person who did this.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 so you're telling me that because it's fake, it doesn't make a difference. okay, lord of the rings, the extended version, suddenly frodo wakes up and finds out it was all a dream, it never happened. star wars, anikin wakes up a small boy and forgets all counts of being evil and having children. doesn't quite work does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remi Posted February 26, 2003 Author Share Posted February 26, 2003 If it was hinted throughout the story, that would be fine. In Star Wars it isn't though, so it's not a good example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 the hints in monkey island i interpreted as funny jokes, like the grog machien and stuff, ther were simply little funny things that shouldn't be in this pirate world but are, the perfect blend of pirate times and modern day to entertain us. i never took them as more than that. i now know what they all mean so they are less funny now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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