amas128 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Server has rules? Fine. So you understand that some servers have those rules, and you refuse to follow them? Silly as it may sound to you, the admin there has every right to kick you. It's not like he's kicking you for no reason buddy. You're the one who shouldn't be trying to force your will upon people by disobeying server rules just to piss people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi-Wan X Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 There are different signals for seeing if an opponent is ready. The most used i've seen are the following. Bowing Chat Confirmation If an opponent bows to me, indicating he's ready, then i'll bow as well, indicating the same. I don't care if he wants to do this for respect or not, either way he's showing me he's ready, and I certainly won't try to earn a cheap kill by flooding him with lightning or pushing him off a cliff. I like to earn my kills with skill to be quite honest, not because a person wasn't ready. If someone is like " Rdy?", and I don't respond and just flood him with lightning, then guess what? Thats lame. If my preference is bowing for indication that im ready, and someone floods me with lightning. Then sure...I may think its lame, but the other person may not, because he may not believe in bowing for "readiness", so I won't whine. BUT... if I chat, asking if he's ready and he doesn't respond and immediately uses lightning on me, then i'll probably say something about that. Chat indication is a CLEAR way for both players to know if a person is ready. If you believe in simply flooding with a force power once a person questions if your ready in chat speak, then thats cheap. The thing is....if its an NF lightsaber duel, then I actually like to use bow as an indication that im ready. If I bow and the person runs at me to slash and I just sat there dumbfounded and died...then thats my fault. Its idiocy. If a person runs toward you with a saber...he's ready. But like I said, I like to use bow as an indication on nf duel servers. The person will almost always try to use a DFA on me, and i'll get out of the way and take him out extremely quickly, already knowing what he was about to do. Bah...so much rant In short...these are my beliefs Killing when someone uses chat to ask you if your ready = Cheap Being attacked by bowing = Not And if you bow during FFA...its stupid. Unless you initiate in a "k" duel, but you should already be ready to be attacked. Haha, I think its funny. I've actually seen a person bowing to every opponent he came across in an FFA match before attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Originally posted by GC256 So you understand that some servers have those rules, and you refuse to follow them? Silly as it may sound to you, the admin there has every right to kick you. It's not like he's kicking you for no reason buddy. You're the one who shouldn't be trying to force your will upon people by disobeying server rules just to piss people off. I would have been more than content to let you guys play in your happy little "Ok this gesture signifies I am ready to proceed with combat in an honorable way" world and never bother any of you. Problem was, as it has been established time and time again, these people felt the need to try to force people to follow this nonsense wherever they went. That means they left those servers with “established rules” and started going out harassing players on public servers that had no established rules. So if it seems like "lamers" are now coming to your servers for the sole purpose of pissing you off, good observation. They are. People are sick of having this stuff crammed down their throats and are finally doing something to prevent it from rearing it's ugly head in the new game soon to be out. I mean really guy think about it. You’re a 13 year old kid who just got JK2 for his birthday. You’ve played many online games before so it’s not like you’re a newbie who is playing his first mp game. You fire up mp, connect to a server for the first time and wow, your first fight! You run up and whack some dude with a saber and…. 4 seconds later you are suspended in mid air being choked and called a **ggot lamer noob by the admin. Ok, gay server, try another. Same result. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Finally out of frustration you quit and say screw this crap, how the hell am I supposed to enjoy this? That is exactly how I would have felt if I started JK2 in the last 6 months. I would have uninstalled it and tossed the cd in the trash because I know I sure as hell would not pay $50 just to be ****ed with by admins because I did nothing more than try to play the damn game. And while JA is going to have a lot of returning players, there will be a lot of new ones and if you want anything more in this community than a bunch of bitter angry little trolls and their silly codes of honor after the first 6 months maybe you should let them play the game this time and not give them crap for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryudom Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 exactly also There are different signals for seeing if an opponent is ready. my favorite is seeing the player move. its kind of hard to see at first but if you practice you can get good at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Originally posted by FK | unnamed me disconnects and happy to know another pack or RPG noobs have been frustrated to the brink of a mental melt down over a silly video game. [sarcastic rant]Silly video game?? You 5ux0rs! Don't you gay d00ds know that JO is about Jedi honoR? It is bout folloing teh Jedi Code which teaches us to show respect to all hte other Jedi! are you a newB?? This does not mean being polite and not verbally abusing people on teh server, but hitting the crouch key and tilting your torso forward. That shows respect!!1! That means that saber down = peace!1!! That means when someone hasn't bowed taht means they aren't ready to fight with honour! They are still setting up thier binds to sit and kiss! Then they cna sit and kiss and be honourble Jedi. If someone lames me with a move I cannot avoid, the jedi Code says, "Thou shalt call them gay and lame. Thou shalt not learn to counter the moves of lameness because then thou wilt be counted amoung those who are gay. Thou shalt extinguish thy honourable lightsaber and delare upon high thus saying 'Oh ye of lame moves. Thy lack of skillz shows thou hast no honour. Thy newbish ways requires thou shalt be smote from this server.' Once the lame newb has been smoten, thou shat use thy sit bind to meditate and know that thou has honourably defeated another gay pagan who did not see thy most honourable light." [/sarcastic rant] Originally posted by Mith[OmNi] I'm talking about NF Duel servers moron. In FFA I couldn't care less if people bow or not. Why are the two different? Why is dueling a "more honourable" gametype? Isn't the goal of both to defeat your opponant? Originally posted by Mith[OmNi] Roleplaying? Who said anything about Roleplaying? Rushing your opponent when he has a chat sign above his head at the beginning of the duel is a sad way to win. Its not about "honor", its about respect. Respect for your opponent. Why is it a sad way to win? Many people just want to play to rack up the frags. Why is taking an advantage of someone leaving themselves open sad? I don't play for those reasons, but many do, and it is perfectly valid. You are trying to apply your reasons for why you play to other people, and it doesn't work. That is why the whole "honour" system in JO doesn't work. The only respect and honour system that does work is being polite and not verbally bashing someone. Originally posted by Mith[OmNi] When I kill someone in a duel, I want them to be able to say: "Wow, he has great skills" not "He rushed-killed me while I was trying to ask him a question". Again, not everyone plays to try and show skilled they are. Because they have different goals, they are going to play the game differently than you are. Originally posted by Mith[OmNi] If an opponent runs at me swinging his saber without bowing, I don't bow to him and then whine about it... I automatically assume he's never played before, and I'm always right. LOL. So anyone who doesn't bow has never played the game before? I guess people sign up for ladders and so on without ever having played before. And when someone logs onto a server and bows, thus leaving themselves open, many people assume that they are new to the game, because who would be foolish enough to leave themselves so open right at the beginning of the game? Since the goal of the gametype is to defeat your opponant, turning off your weapon and looking at the ground is a silly way to start, isn't it. Originally posted by Mith[OmNi] On Duel servers, all bowing is a sign that says: "Yes I'm ready. Bring it" You shouldn't attack unless your opponent attacks you, or gives some indication that he's prepared. I ALWAYS bow to my opponent. I never really understood why people have to set all their settings up after the game has started. Especially on a server with more than two people there is really no need for this. Players should be ready to play as soon as their turn comes up. It can be quite annoying for those waiting to have the someone who is supposed to be playing have a chat box above their head. They should have been ready to play! And I think ryudom put it well when he said, "my favorite is seeing the player move. its kind of hard to see at first but if you practice you can get good at it." Personally, I think the community would be in a lot better shape (and would be better able to attact new players) if everyone was just nice to each other instead of trying to enforce a silly code od honour. I think it has been shown at length that the goal of the honour system has not been achieved, and actually has backfired. It has done more to fragment the JO community than anything else, IMO. But I suppose politeness is never going to happen either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intrepid_JKII Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Personally, I think the community would be in a lot better shape (and would be better able to attact new players) if everyone was just nice to each other instead of trying to enforce a silly code od honour. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi-Wan X Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Well hopefully we can get rid of the honor codes during the early months of JA. Though I feel it will forever plague the JO/JA series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haemon Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 It is truly amazing how hypocritical the fanboy community is. They preach honor and respect and that you're suppose to fight fair and not use any combos that aren't in the manual. But the truth is that the people mentioned above are the worst kind of players. They will attack you saber down and bitch when you kill them, they are in no way willing to learn combos besides the 3 swing red one, and some how believe pull/kick is cheaper than becoming empowered and gripping you. Unnamed shows more respect for his fellow gamer than 99.9% of the fanboys out there by simply answering questions about combos and and being helpful to newbies(new to the game). Here is a shell shocker for mith, GC, and everyone else with like minds... And he doesn't bow . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonepadawan Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 The odd thing is.. I've never seen a jedi in the movie bow... the nearest thing to honor they have is allowing each other time to take their robes off and turn their saber on... I'm personally sick of the rare times of joining a server finding everyone standing around with their sabers off and being forced to duel and only duel. Is this "bowing" when they do that weird crouchy bob thing..? My form of honour is laughing when I make a silly mistake, complimenting someone who whooped my ass with a cool combo and being generally cheerful to all.. I won't kill someone standing around with a chat box over their head or with their saber off (unless they do nothing BUT stand around otherwise I will decapitate them).. if their saber snaps on and they charge me, all the more fun. As for RPGs.. weeeell... Prehaps someone remembers old Jedi knight RPGs.. they were fun... golden days.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Originally posted by ryudom exactly also my favorite is seeing the player move. its kind of hard to see at first but if you practice you can get good at it i always wondered about this thing that happens in FFA duels and duel gametype. it says begin and prints it on their screens. WTF is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Originally posted by Rumor i always wondered about this thing that happens in FFA duels and duel gametype. it says begin and prints it on their screens. WTF is that? dunno never see it. I'm usually blinded by the 47 multi colored lines of rules telling me about all the things I'm not allowed to do in the motd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amas128 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Please don't assume that this person is more honorable than who just by what they say here. I didn't feel it was important to say that I go out of my way to help people who are new at the game. Thanks. Unnamed, I remember the good old days, when JK2 first came out, no admins getting in the way. It hasn't been the same since they started showing up. Unlike you however, I like to make the best of things. I don't go complaining about it and insulting people in online forums or threaten to throw my game away if it doesn't stop. I just accept it and move on. And if you don't have enough will power to follow simple rules in a server, (not any of the pull or grip kick nonsense in FFA's) then there's no chance of JA ever getting rid of the honor thing. Complaining the way you are and also going onto 'h0n0r' servers to piss them off is not helping anything, as much as you think it will. When someone like you comes into a server, and an admin kicks that person, the people there feel better about what they're doing. So why not try to be a little *less* offensive. I'm not asking you to sit down with them and kiss and have tea, but just don't go out of your way to bother them and you'll gradually notice a difference. It's working on me so far . EDIT: Just as easily I got used to the bowing thing, I could get used to not bowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Originally posted by GC256 Unnamed, I remember the good old days, when JK2 first came out, no admins getting in the way. It hasn't been the same since they started showing up. agreed. and like many others here have agreed, admin mods played a big part in that. sure they may not have been intended for annoying 12 year olds to use as a tool to **** w/ other players but that is exactly what 75% of them use the punishment commands for. It may have been intended to "keep order" but in reality it's more like "HAHAHAHAHA YOU ***GOT I MADE YOU INTO A BUNNY!!11 I OWN YOUR ASS!111" I just accept it and move on. I possess a backbone and was raised not to conform to things if I don't believe in them, that's not an option for me. *that was not an insult, just my way of saying I'm very hard headed. (not any of the pull or grip kick nonsense in FFA's) uhh right, I’m not even going to lay into that one, far too easy. Complaining the way you are and also going onto 'h0n0r' servers to piss them off is not helping anything, as much as you think it will. Sure about that? I see all of maybe two people taking your side out of the 100 or so replies in this thread. Thing is guy, we *tried like hell to "turn the other cheek" and all we got for it over the last year was an /amslap to the face. And really, I seriously think you are missing the point I'm trying to make with my attitude towards the bowing/honor stuff. I am 100% all for people being civil to each other. I view "respect" in an online game as just treating people like you would if you were speaking to them in person. I'm not going to make racial slurs to some kid at the check out counter at Wal-Mart and I see no reason to do it to a stranger in an online game either. You ask me for directions on the street, I'll help you. You ask me how to do a combo in a game, I'll help you. But you (not you, I just mean people in general) start insulting me for no reason, online or not you're going to get an "eph-yew" from me. And really, I find the whole "conform to MY way of what JK2 should be or I kick/ban/vote you off/sleep/slap" mentality to be quite insulting. I 100% agree that if you provide a server you can do what ever you like on it. I don't have a problem with the true role players in JK2 because they don't bother anyone. When they want to RPG, they go to places where others RPG and do so. What they do not do is go to a friggen CTF server and start voting people off because they won't stop playing the game and pretend to be space bar tenders. The saber off = peace crowd does just that. No matter where they go they expect others to conform to what they view as the GOD given "rules" of JK2. Hell go dig up some of those old -SC- threads from 1.02. The whole bow/honor/saber code stuff started out as something to be *spread to and enforced on public servers buy a bunch of people who felt it was their duty to tell others how they should behave and play. I mean really, would you guys like it if come JA all the competitive players banned together and started kicking people and banning them from the servers we run because you bowed before a duel? What about ganging up to beat the hell out of players or voting people off on public servers simply because they said "gf" after a duel? Sounds pretty damn silly right? So does getting banned from a public server and/or being insulted for attacking a player just because his little reborn/boss model did not have his saber up… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amas128 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Originally posted by FK | unnamed agreed. and like many others here have agreed, admin mods played a big part in that. sure they may not have been intended for annoying 12 year olds to use as a tool to **** w/ other players but that is exactly what 75% of them use the punishment commands for. It may have been intended to "keep order" but in reality it's more like "HAHAHAHAHA YOU ***GOT I MADE YOU INTO A BUNNY!!11 I OWN YOUR ASS!111" I get the point, you've said this continously. Again, you can't speak for everyone, but I do agree that the majority of admins are exactly like you said. I possess a backbone... Sorry, I did take that as an insult. I have a backbone too! . .What I meant was, if you can't change it, why worry about it. It's called going with the flow. You should try it sometime, great for stress. ...and was raised not to conform to things if I don't believe in them, that's not an option for me. To each their own. This is a videogame by the way. Sure about that? I see all of maybe two people taking your side out of the 100 or so replies in this thread. You can't use this forum as a tool to get a census of how the majority of people play. Like you've said yourself, or someone has, most people haven't heard of this forum. (I found it just by chance). On top of that, people may not speak up with all the complaining in here (both sides ). Thing is guy, we *tried like hell to "turn the other cheek" and all we got for it over the last year was an /amslap to the face. Of course you're gonna get a slap to the face for disobeying rules, with good admins at least. Most admins do give you warnings. And really, I seriously think you are missing the point I'm trying to make with my attitude towards the bowing/honor stuff. Same goes for you. I am 100% all for people being civil to each other. I view "respect" in an online game as just treating people like you would if you were speaking to them in person. I'm not going to make racial slurs to some kid at the check out counter at Wal-Mart and I see no reason to do it to a stranger in an online game either. You ask me for directions on the street, I'll help you. You ask me how to do a combo in a game, I'll help you. But you (not you, I just mean people in general) start insulting me for no reason, online or not you're going to get an "eph-yew" from me. You've already said this and I understood it before... what are you trying to say? And really, I find the whole "conform to MY way of what JK2 should be or I kick/ban/vote you off/sleep/slap" mentality to be quite insulting. Again, you've said this, and I understood. I still think you're wrong. It's really the other way around. People can't follow you around and tell you what to do, and since you're so heavy headed (not an insult, you said it yourself) it shouldn't affect you. On top of that, admins can't follow you around and ban you in whatever server they want. They don't have passwords for all servers and no one's out to get you. You have to come to them. I 100% agree that if you provide a server you can do what ever you like on it. Finally, we agree on something . I don't have a problem with the true role players in JK2 because they don't bother anyone. When they want to RPG, they go to places where others RPG and do so. What they do not do is go to a friggen CTF server and start voting people off because they won't stop playing the game and pretend to be space bar tenders. The saber off = peace crowd does just that. No matter where they go they expect others to conform to what they view as the GOD given "rules" of JK2. Most servers I play in aren't basejk and/or have voting disabled, you should find servers like that. The whole bow/honor/saber code stuff started out as something to be *spread to and enforced on public servers buy a bunch of people who felt it was their duty to tell others how they should behave and play. I wasn't here, and I'm too lazy so I'll take your word for it. I mean really, would you guys like it if come JA all the competitive players banned together and started kicking people and banning them from the servers we run because you bowed before a duel? I agree. But if it's a rule, I wouldn't do it. I don't have too much time to waste so I wouldn't be going in servers bowing just to piss people off and get kicked. If I was so set on bowing even though I would be banned, I'd just find servers that let me bow whenever I wanted. What about ganging up to beat the hell out of players or voting people off on public servers simply because they said "gf" after a duel? Read above. I don't see how difficult it is to press the C button. Even if you do it before you challenge someone. Once the duel starts, it wouldn't be that different for you. I mean I understand standing up for what you believe in but over a split second thing? In a videogame no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Originally posted by GC256 To each their own. This is a videogame by the way. Something the others fail to grasp, by the way, but you fail to see it so why bother. You can't use this forum as a tool to get a census of how the majority of people play. Like you've said yourself, or someone has, most people haven't heard of this forum. (I found it just by chance). On top of that, people may not speak up with all the complaining in here (both sides ). No, but we can come here and listen to arguements that makes me wonder if the other party is even listening or just has repetition go in one ear and out the other Of course you're gonna get a slap to the face for disobeying rules, with good admins at least. Most admins do give you warnings. Once again, failure to acknowledge a point and also lack of knowledge in how most admins conduct their business in their servers. Again, you've said this, and I understood. I still think you're wrong. It's really the other way around. People can't follow you around and tell you what to do, and since you're so heavy headed (not an insult, you said it yourself) it shouldn't affect you. On top of that, admins can't follow you around and ban you in whatever server they want. They don't have passwords for all servers and no one's out to get you. You have to come to them. Want to bet? I have been banned from other servers just by word of mouth because I opened a can on a different server. Once again, chalk above comment up to lack of prior knowledge. Most servers I play in aren't basejk and/or have voting disabled, you should find servers like that. Ignorance again, gg. I wasn't here, and I'm too lazy so I'll take your word for it. *insert lack of prior knowledge comment here* I agree. But if it's a rule, I wouldn't do it. I don't have too much time to waste so I wouldn't be going in servers bowing just to piss people off and get kicked. If I was so set on bowing even though I would be banned, I'd just find servers that let me bow whenever I wanted. zzzZZZzzz... You're putting me to sleep again. Chalk this up to lack of prior knowledge AND ignorance, again. Read above. I don't see how difficult it is to press the C button. Even if you do it before you challenge someone. Once the duel starts, it wouldn't be that different for you. I mean I understand standing up for what you believe in but over a split second thing? In a videogame no less. Good going, your arguement completely beats around the bush AND acquires the typical attitude of the "do this, do this, and do this." And I quote earlier passage. That argument, the imposition of a persons will upon others is the very reason why that whole *ASC* thing got started. Also, I'm starting to get weary of the "it's my server, I do whatever the **** I want" arguement because most of the time, the owner or designated admin are 13 year old whining *****es that live in their own little dream world. Case and point, look at Mith's line of post. I'm tired of refuting each of these points, because every time we do it ends up being as I said above, "do this, do this, etc." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 To each their own, bow all you like. Just make sure you bring a book to read while you sit in spec mode after being killed (duel servers tend to have pretty long lines when the game was popular/launched). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Originally posted by FK | unnamed To each their own, bow all you like. Just make sure you bring a book to read while you sit in spec mode after being killed (duel servers tend to have pretty long lines when the game was popular/launched). And if you're playing 1.02, don't plan on changing your force config when you're in the first waiting to duel slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilandau-Sama Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 I always bow. I never kill people with a text thing above there head. I also never kill people with there saber down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amas128 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 I'm the ignorant one? Whatever guys. I try to come here with an open mind, I even say that I'm slowly changing to agree with you guys, and Blackrose insults me and fails to give anything a decent response. And I'm the ignorant one. You act like you've been to every server in the game, which you have not. If you would've came to my server, you would've seen that there is no abuse whatsoever. Oh well, it was worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amas128 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 By the way, thanks for speaking up Sith. There's countless more people like him and I, if you weren't so ignorant not to see it and base everything on what goes on at these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi-Wan X Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 While im not to much in favor of honor, if a server specifically says " Bow before each duel" or " Don't kill when saber off" then you SHOULD be kicked when you fail to follow these rules. No matter how "foolish" the rules may be, YOU were the one who chose to join the server. Of course people may come in your servers and whine and the like, but im just talking about joining these types of servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryudom Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 if you can't change it, why worry about it you CAN change it, and thats what uj and rad are doing here. if some fanboys can wreck it then why can't we fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khier Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Originally posted by GC256 I'm the ignorant one? Whatever guys. I try to come here with an open mind, I even say that I'm slowly changing to agree with you guys, and Blackrose insults me and fails to give anything a decent response. And I'm the ignorant one. You act like you've been to every server in the game, which you have not. If you would've came to my server, you would've seen that there is no abuse whatsoever. Oh well, it was worth a try. I would wonder which server that is, then we could see for ourselves....but wait, I already know your response to this, and that is that you think that folks like unamed and rad are going to go and cause havoc in your server if you do release the name of the server. Well I do try to obey the server rules regardless of how I've started to view those rules after listening to the opinions of the fk clan and the shockwave clan and they're followers. In the past couple of months they've started an uprising and I'll say that they've certainly changed my perspective on things, I would/will give competitive play a whirl once I get a new computer in the winter. What I find most interesting is that 99.9 % of everything the anti saberist code folks have explained and brought forth makes sense to me. It's a video game, this respect and bowing jargon is really quite ridiculous imo, I don't have much else to say because there isn't much else to say that would benefit this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 score one for the good guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 I doubt I'll start playing competetively once JA comes out. I'm too much of a play-for-fun guy... I do not have the patience you need to win a drain-duel. I don't have the time needed to be actively involved in clans and matches. But who knows... perhaps I'll pick up CTF. It seems to be the gametype that has the least HONOR and idiots whining about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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