What is the point of Stealth?

[montnoir]

This is in regards to both KOTOR 1 and TSL

 

If you sneak past enemies, you lose out on a lot of exp. You need exp to enhance your character, because sooner or later you will be in a position where you must fight and then stealth means exactly jack.

 

A way to balance gameplay for stealthy players would be to give them, stealth bonuses - for example you need to get into the hangar you can A: slay the guard or B: sneak past the guard. If you do A you get 500 exp if you do B you get 500 exp. Unfortunately in the game it is = if you do A you get 500 exp if you do B you get nothing at all. So why then should I spend my precious exp at level up to invest in something that gives me nothing?

 

 

 

 

 

That is one thing, then there is the "sneak attack". So it gives you 2x the damage or 4x the damage, etc, right? Ok, but when you are in stealth, then you are also alone, your teammates are far enough so they won't be seen. Thus they can't help you. So you stealth into the enemy camp and you hit a guy and let's say you kill him on the first strike. Then you become visible and all other guys attacks your lone character, while your mates are far away and probably won't even notice your attacked. So you need to switch to one of the others and run him into the fight by which time your stealthy character is most likely down. Then you run the tough guy in and slay the enemies and what difference did it make that you stealth killed one guy? Is that feature implemented to make me "feel" better? Or what? It ends the same way anyway.

 

Am I missing something here or is the stealth completely pointless? Oh, ok there is that ONE time in TSL when you can stealth into a room and overhear 2 thugs talking about Vogga's Hoard, thus receiving the "Vogga's Hoard quest". But other then that ONE INSTANCE, what?

 

 

 

I mean they have 2 Prestige Classes (Jedi Watchman and Sith Assassin) for stealth. What's the point to them? Really I must be missing something here. That's why I make a call for help, because I refuse to believe that stealth is worthless. What am I doing wrong? What am I missing? How am I supposed to play? What rewards are there for playing stealth?

[Venom750]

I think it just to give the two prestige class a special talent like the others plus the popping out of nowhere to kill a guy is still cool plus i think there kept it in the game to be loyal to the first one.

[Achilles]

Stealth is good for situation in which you might have a weaker character that is forced to go solo. For example the mines on Peragus. You can stealth past the droids and then use the console to disable them for XP. Not as much XP as you would get if you went toe-to-toe against them, but if you have a weaker character, you might make that choice.

 

In KotOR, I would frequently use Mission to stealth past the patrolling swoop gang members in the Vulkar base, and then use the computer console to take out large numbers of them without losing any HP.

 

Is stealth applicable in every situation? No. To be completely honest, it's almost useless in KotOR, but does have some function in TSL. It's just another tool at your disposal.

 

As for sneak attack, it might behoove you to read the fine print. Sneak attack can be used in conjunction with stealth, but it is not limited to stealth. Statis, Adhesive grenades, attacks from behind are all ways to apply sneak attack bonuses.

 

Also keep in mind that Watchman and Assassin aren't necessarily Stealth PRC's. They are PRC's for which Stealth bonuses are available, but those are not their only bonuses. I usually think of these classes as Skills classes.

 

I hope that helps.

[Bob Lion54]

Originally posted by Achilles

Is stealth applicable in every situation? No. To be completely honest, it's almost useless in KotOR, but does have some function in TSL. It's just another tool at your disposal.

 

The only other times I found it usefull was on Telos in the Undercity sewers so the rancor would not see you. Also, on the Leviathan, depending on which charactor you use.

 

It's a cool ability, but you are better off using your points elsewhere.

[Emperor Devon]

Stealth is more useful for modding purposes. What if you've created a new enemy, placeable, etc, and don't want to waste time fighting the enemies?

[Smilodon]

Well, stealth in combat is really useless in KOTOR and TSL, it's more a subtle method for other interactions like recover mines, use terminals or open doors when enemies are nearby and you want to remain hidden (see Achilles' post). It's perhaps a designer problem that Obsidian didn't implement more such interactions (imo) to make stealth even more useful and fun.

[stingerhs]

it would be nice if they implemented a stealth-kill type deal that would allow you to dispatch a lone guard without decloaking.

 

and, like you stated earlier, its not really useful to use the Stealth skill the way it is currently.

[Darth333]

The only time I ever used stealth was in the Leviathan when I used Mission edit: and Juhani. Never really found it useful for my PC.

[RevanA4]

i use stealth only to avoild the annoying driods on peragus

[RedHawke]

In nwscript.nss isn't there function calls for things like Stealth XP?

 

Probably would have made Stealth more handy.

 

I remember seeing that somewhere in the game files... another un-implemented function no doubt.

[RevanA4]

um it worked like that for kotor 1

[warchild75]

Yeah i used stealth when i had little or no health or near the start of the game when i didnt have that many skills but i see where you are coming from regarding exp points.

In tsl there was a load of sith training outside a temple so i stealthed past them coz i would of died had i tried to fight them all. but it did kind of feel like i was just skipping through a large part of the game.

[Bastila]

You know i don't really use it only at the start of TSL and that was it, otherwise i think it's kinda useless.

[Achilles]

I can't believe I forgot to mention my favorite use for Stealth: sneaking up on people and planting mines at their feat. When you decloak, they run toward you and blow themselves up.

[RevanA4]

I love doing that or ya set a wall of them in front of you and decloak an watch the fire works it is so funny how stupid the npc's are

[Bob Lion54]

Oh, yea!!

 

Once, I planted so many that my screen froze for a few seconds. Now thats alot of mines!

[Master_Vrook]

I don't see much point in rasing ones stealth rank all that high other then using the skill on the work bench.

[Achilles]

Originally posted by Lion54

Oh, yea!!

 

Once, I planted so many that my screen froze for a few seconds. Now thats alot of mines!

I believe you can only set up to 20 mines at a time. Or is it per module? Bah, I can't remember.

[THE VIGILANTE]

Stealth comes in really handy when trying to get past annoying little enemies.

 

For Example: If there is a level in which the PC has to fight a couple of weak enemies, I will just stealth past them.

The reason I do this is because I won't gain that much XP, but I will loose alot of time.

 

Nevertheless, I have to say that stealth is almost useless in KOTOR 1 & sometimes useless in KOTOR 2.

 

Imagine if we had stealth options like the ones in the Batman Begins Videogame! You could sneak behind your enemy, deliver a death blow. Then you hid on the ceiling of a room, and just as some enemies come into the room, you could jump down on them and do a double kills!

[Master_Vrook]

Killing those weaklings would be nice entertainment and crawling along with the shield generator is also a big delay.

[THE VIGILANTE]

Originally posted by Master_Vrook

Killing those weaklings would be nice entertainment and crawling along with the shield generator is also a big delay.

 

Not if you have the Stealth Run feature from TSL. You can turn on Stealth and still run without being seen.

 

Trust me, it saves alot of time.

:D

[Hallucination]

Originally posted by Achilles

I can't believe I forgot to mention my favorite use for Stealth: sneaking up on people and planting mines at their feat. When you decloak, they run toward you and blow themselves up.

 

Thats what I do. I was a guardian when i started doing that (give a guardian 16 intel at the beginning and you get more skills that a sentinel ) Then i started putting them at random places with animals so they just walk into them randomly, so it was like mine here mine there mine everywhere, get a sandwich, visit LF, come back in an hour everyones dead and i lvled up.

[Bob Lion54]

Originally posted by Achilles

I believe you can only set up to 20 mines at a time. Or is it per module? Bah, I can't remember.

 

Sounds about right, but I never counted. I know I maxed it out though. Once they exploded, I could plant more, no problem.

 

20 mines is alot!

 

"BIG BADA BOOMB" -Leeloo(5th Element)

[montnoir]

So the point of the Watchman and Assassin is kind of moot as all it does is give you more skills and force than for the Weapon Master/Marauder. Even without the infinite XP cheat you can wind up with level 28-29 and that means more than enough force and skill-points for any class.

 

I wonder if it had been so hard to implement some extra EXP for getting through an area unspotted. Like the Sith bases, that would make actual sense.

 

If anyone has played Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, you know what I mean - as you get extra XP for being sneaky and finishing quests unspotted.

 

 

 

In KOTOR 1 I can understand the use of the jedi Sentinel as the level 20 cap allows you only a finite number of skill-points, thus the Sentinel has a fair balance between skills and Force points (I believe the Feats are as many as for the Consular) but in TSL, basically, the extra skills of the Watchman/Assassin don't add up to the pros/cons of the others. Thus making it unnecessary and badly implemented. A pity.

 

 

 

 

If you have read the pdf excerpt of the Prima Guide from the official TSL site, they make it sound like TSL is some kind of Morrowind sized game with enormous areas and tons of choices for getting through them. And the Watchmen/Assassins are the most useful classes in the game...

[Smilodon]

Yea, stealthing through an area full of enemies without being spotted and then rewarded with XP would be a nice feature, beside some additions in combat that many of us want. Or perhaps minor quests that can only be solved using stealth (similar to Mandalore's room on Dxun) could also make it more useful. Let's see what KOTOR III will do