The Source Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Avellone took a darker less whimsical approach to the TSL. A dark game with a dark setting. It felt grittier and just much better than KOTOR though when I played it first time I did find it hard getting use to the difference of everything. Lets hope Kotor III can retain the style of Kotor and TSL while injecting much needed grittiness. I do have a work-in-progress story in the fiction setting called the Kotor III: The True Sith which has a very dark touch to it compared to the first two Kotor games. I see where you are going, and I do have to agree with you. I'm not an Avellone fan in any way, but I think he tried something that Star Wars needed. Star Wars really needed a shot in the arm. I'm not saying he was successful, but I do like the idea of trying something new. “KotOR I” was an awesome reminder of why I like Star Wars. When they decided to do a sequel, I was a little disappointed. “KotOR II” should have been a standalone story, for its predecessor gave a true Star Wars send off for Revan. "KotOR III" should be a stanalone. If doing a MMORPG will make this happen, then I will be one to settle for "KotOR I" as an ending to Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cire992 Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 @ The Source - I could not disagree with you more. Fortunately, there's no reason for us to debate over whether K3 should be a standalone story or not. That's the developers' problem. Good luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathoris Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 @ Thrawn i thought ur "fix" was pretty funny actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm5k Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 @ Thrawn i thought ur "fix" was pretty funny actually +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctrl Alt Del Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 “KotOR I” was an awesome reminder of why I like Star Wars. When they decided to do a sequel, I was a little disappointed. “KotOR II” should have been a standalone story, for its predecessor gave a true Star Wars send off for Revan. I agree Kotor 2 should have told us a different story, one not at all related to K1, but we had K2 and, for me, it didn't do a good job on extending K1 story. Not blaming Avellone this time, but no one could have done a good job with a finished story such as K1. But the harm is done and K2 needs and deserves a sequel, simply because it's an unfinihed plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revan 411 Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Really? I thought the story was rather lame in Kotor I, and I enjoyed the story in Kotor II. it didn't do a good job on extending K1 story So, your saying that Revan is mentioned through out the whole game of Kotor II, and the characters give us, more back story on him, while Kotor I, didn't even mentioned anything about Revan. but no one could have done a good job with a finished story such as K1 I do have to admit, K1 was more complete then K2, yes, but the story is much more deeper in K2 then it is in K1, cause K1 is straight for ward, you have to find Star Maps, defeat Malak, save the republic, that's it, While K2 actually has you thinking of the story, and the dialogue is very well written, and K2 has more back story on all of your party members. simply because it's an unfinihed plot. I do agree, the ending did leave us hanging, yes, but there are lots of other ways to over look that, and I already over looked the ending, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da_Man_2423 Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Really? I thought the story was rather lame in Kotor I, and I enjoyed the story in Kotor II. Well, everyone has their own tastes. So, your saying that Revan is mentioned through out the whole game of Kotor II, and the characters give us, more back story on him, while Kotor I, didn't even mentioned anything about Revan. I can't tell if you're simply further explaining Ctrl Alt Del's statement or disagreeing... but in any case, a lot is mentioned about Revan's back-story in K1. A lot of it is simply repeated a thousand times in K2 as well. I do have to admit, K1 was more complete then K2, yes, but the story is much more deeper in K2 then it is in K1, cause K1 is straight for ward, you have to find Star Maps, defeat Malak, save the republic, that's it, Couldn't the same be argued about K2? All you do (for most of the game) is find the Jedi Masters. I know, it's a lot more intricate than that, but overall, it's the same process towards completing the story. While K2 actually has you thinking of the story, and the dialogue is very well written, and K2 has more back story on all of your party members. I was thinking about the story in K1 the whole way through...as I'm sure countless others were too. I disagree that the party members have more back-story in K2. Some of the party members (if not all) in K1 could rant off about their lives for what seemed like hours (Canderous and Jolee come to mind). In K2, you quickly come to a roadblock about their past. A lot of the dialogue options are available right from the get-go with the party members, and you can easily listen to most of their life in 15 minutes. I do agree, the ending did leave us hanging, yes, but there are lots of other ways to over look that, and I already over looked the ending, anyway. For most of us (well, me at least), the only way to "overlook" the ending in K2 is for them to finish the story with a K3. Or fix the ending. (I thought Team Gizka was doing that, but I don't remember anymore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaris Vynn Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 I beleive this has been stated on this thread already, the CEO states in the Interview KOTOR will have an MMO component not that it will be entirely an MMO. John Riccitiello said that EA is working on the next version of Star Wars game Knights of the Old Republic, and it will most certainly have a massively multiplayer online component to it. Which for me to purchase it would have to be the case. I want KOTOR III to be an RPG that is the point if the series and a good part of the reason it did so well. If it had an MMO compnent that is fine but it HAS to have the SPRPG part as well. I also noticed in the article the he seems to be pointing out that it will be for PC only, But EA is firmly on that path now, with a KOTOR MMO, which would sidestep the consoles owned by Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. While I only game on a PC, I don’t agree with it it should at the very least also be on the XBOX, maybe this is Lucas Arts making up for the oversght of TFU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctrl Alt Del Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 While K2 actually has you thinking of the story, and the dialogue is very well written, and K2 has more back story on all of your party members. That's probably the first time I hear this. I think Atton is the biggest example on how poorly K2 did on this. His life story finishes as suddenly as it starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterJambi Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 You can't compare two different story-telling styles and have one be better than the other. Its 100% taste-based on all fronts. Some people like apples, some like oranges. There isn't a better or worse. But props need to be given where deserved. KotOR 1 started KOTOR. Bioware spawned KotOR from the Starwars universe. There wouldn't be a TSL without a KOTOR. Nor would it have the fan-base that it has now if KotOR 1 hadn't had an amazing storyline. I would be thrilled if KOTOR 3 would be developed by Bioware, personally. (Wishful thinking.) Having said that, in my opinion: All of you people with your "Ifs" and "Buts" are just saying that KotOR II had greater potential. Thats nice. But...It...Didn't...Happen. KotOR II turned out badly. No "ifs", "ands", or "buts" about it. Thats why Lucas is taking his swear-candy-coated time with a third installment. They realized they made a bo-bo with KotOR 2. The game didn't add amazing new features that blew anyone away, no pod-race upgrades, no improved starship combat, no awe-inspiring new combat features, no spectacular enviroment interfacing, no measureable improved graphics, no OMG-I-IS-REVAN moments. In opinion, they really didn't change it for any better at all. They tweaked a few things. Added a storyline, and Lucas said d-u-n. I don't blame Obsidian. But just because you can't blame them dosen't make the game any better. No offense meant TSL fans... Google Bad Game Sequels. First Link, 21 games that didn't need sequels. Rank 9. KotOR. Google Bad Video Game Sequels Second Link(First is Wiki), Second Page. KotOR 2. KotOR 2 wasn't a bad game. It was a disappointing sequel, to an AMAZING game. Of course, that was all just IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny C Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Hmm. Interesting discussion. I've noticed that a lot of people have described how KOTOR 2's story is "deeper" than KOTOR 1's. This goes without saying, and while I did like KOTOR 2, and admired the ambitiousness of the story, I found myself asking, is such a widely expansive and complex storyline such a good idea for this medium? You have to consider that, with a game that essentially has to create a feeling of non-linearity in the character, a complex storyline, the events of which are all predetermined, becomes very difficult with one simple change in order/choice in the way the player goes through the story. You have to remember, writing a game like KOTOR is a very daunting task. Typically, there is a writer to each planet, and a lead writer who does the main story and checks that each planet-writer is adhering to the right tone, pace, etc. So a story like KOTOR 2's would have thousands and thousands of potential changes that would have to be accounted for by the main story, because at the end of the day the story has to maintain the same general direction, as they share the same locations, villains etc. Because of this, liberties in continuity and contradictions are very difficult to control, and I find that as a result, the game's sense of pace and logical progression suffers, at least I felt this to be the case in KOTOR 2, and it doesn't help when they're being rushed. Many of the characters did not have the sense of closure that they did in KOTOR 1, largely because if they did, and then later in the game the player changed direction, it wouldnt make sense that the supporting characters continue to support the main player, not to mention the time factor. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I think that making the story too complex is making the developer's job to hard on him/herself, and when something like lucasarts' infamous change of deadline, it wouldn't affect the game as severely as it did, had they simplified the story somewhat. What I feel is great about not only KOTOR1, but many if not all of Bioware's RPG games, is that their MAIN stories are fairly straightforward (Mass Effect: find Saren and stop him. Jade Empire: Stop the emperor and his evil sidekick. KOTOR1: find the starmaps and hunt down Malak.), but what is great about these games is the JOURNEY. The characters involved, the cities/planets along the way can go one way or the other, but the fixed goal alows a constant, clear objective and sense of progression that maintains the continuity of the tone and pace of the story. They main story really only begins to change towards the climax, where significant choices have less of an impact because the final few stages tend to be rather linear. KOTOR 2 also set itself a hard task when it decided not to cannonize events of the first. I'm not saying they should have, but how can you really lay out the current galactic situation when you don't know whether the republic has been reinstated, or a giant, unstoppable war-factory has continued to spew our war machines and conquer the galaxy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da_Man_2423 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 KOTOR 2 also set itself a hard task when it decided not to cannonize events of the first. I'm not saying they should have, but how can you really lay out the current galactic situation when you don't know whether the republic has been reinstated, or a giant, unstoppable war-factory has continued to spew our war machines and conquer the galaxy? What do you mean? You get the option of setting events the way they were in K1, or change them to whatever you played as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny C Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 What do you mean? You get the option of setting events the way they were in K1, or change them to whatever you played as. My point is, whatever you choose, the essential setting of the game stays the same, it just changes some cutscenes and dialogue. Even though you can say that Revan kept the Star Forge, the war between the sith and the republic is over, but they can't solidly explain why. They just say "Revan dissappeared and the sith destroyed themselves in the absence of a strong enough leader". What does that mean? Is the Star Forge still in existence? Did the Sith just stop attacking the republic? Remember, the Sith weren't just sith lords, they were an empire of soldiers and worlds, what happened to those worlds? did they surrender? are they still under sith control? Not only that, the entire Republic fleet showed up at the end of KOTOR 1. Even if after that battle Sith Revan dissappeared, then the republic's military leaders are dead. How does that work? What I'm getting at is, by leaving it TOO open, it creates a multitude of inconsistencies that can't be answered. As far as we know, the Star Forge could still exist, and why then, aren't they still spewing out death weapons? It doesn't set a very stable playing field for the story, and from the start, creating a consistent storyline is made difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattig89ch Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 or perhaps it leaves room for more games to close those gaps? I'm hoping that KIII (if/when its released) will explain the gaps, and holes in the story line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Interesting thought... The MMO doesn't necessarily mean there won't be a KOTOR III. The reason I say this it MMO's are generally PC games. EA and LA are smart(greedy) enough to know that there are a lot of gamers out there that don't have gaming rig PC's. So unless they can get the game to function well on consoles, they are going to have to make a console game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattig89ch Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 thats what they did for K1 & 2. I have both of them for xbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperSkeele Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 id rather have Obsidian work on kotor III...i thought they had a lot of wonderful ideas that they just didn't have the proper time to implement as well as they could have. replay value wise for me ill take TSL any day. For me, it has to be Bioware, which is what I think we'll see. Obsidian had high hopes and huge plans for TSL, but they didn't do a very good job of planning out their milestones so they could "finish" the game the way they intended. Yes this is partly LucasArts fault, but it's also Obsidians for trying to shove too much into what they had. The TSL story holds up through most of the game, but then deteriorates into nothing but fighting about two thirds of the way through, wrapped up by an unlikely dialog between the last Sith Lord (not counting the true Sith) and the Exile. The story had to be wound up this way to complete the rough unfinished end product. The darker tone in TSL, for me, didn't fit Star Wars; it's dreary and grim beyond any of the movies or KOTOR1, and 3 sith lords; come on really? A Sith Lord powerful enough to destroy a whole planet? come on; really? You take him down easily, come on; Really? No one on the Jedi counsel can feel the presence of the Sith Lord standing in the same room? She can take out three powerful Jedi Masters with a flip of the wrist, and yet is powerless against two other sith lords that the Exile handles easily, and this "wound in the force" business, it all seems raggedy and like they wanted everything in the story to be Too over the top. I did like some of Obsidians implementations, and I'm a big fan Obsidian when they were Black Isle Studios, but to me, they missed the mark dreadfully in this one, and I can't imagine LucasArts seeing it any differently. I would guess Bioware does K3 and KMMO; K3 single player adventure that sets up the events for the MMO. I'm anxious to see what happens no matter who does what though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 couldn't agree more Viper! Take away the Force and Lightsabers, planet names etc, finish the story, and it would be an awesome game, not Star Wars though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathoris Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=198467 possibly 1 year after the partnership was announced then? If true that is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KesselRun Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 So uhh, how successful do they expect an MMO to be on the consoles? Can anybody shed some light on this? I'm no expert, but I'd think that a highly popular and successful console game would want to take the type of route that would make their product more accessible to gamers, IE; single player. Online console gaming is popular, sure, but it works best with games that also have a good single player aspect to it as well. (GTA, Halo, COD). Unless of course BioWare expect PC sales to go through the roof. Which doesn't make sense for a title like this. I don't know. I'm probably wrong on most of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedak Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=198467 possibly 1 year after the partnership was announced then? If true that is lol was just about to post this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltiades Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 KotOR MMO to be revealed soon. Apparently, the game will be revealed within the month, when The Daily Star (a UK newspaper) visits San Francisco to "file an exclusive report on the game". More bull or is it real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 KotOR MMO to be revealed soon. Apparently, the game will be revealed within the month, when The Daily Star (a UK newspaper) visits San Francisco to "file an exclusive report on the game". More bull or is it real? It hopefully isn't because if it is, I'd expect to see it to tank, people want a KotOR III, not another MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathoris Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 do you guys even read previous posts? Anyway let's just hope if this is really a star wars mmo, that it's succesful. Makes it more interesting to make a KoToR III which is obviously what everybody here wants including myself. I for one hate MMO's but just because this is set in the old republic age and it's being made by Bioware i want to believe so badly it won't suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltiades Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 do you guys even read previous posts? Oopsie. My apologies, didn't look at the age of your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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