A 'religious problem' I need help with

[jonathan7]

Ah, but there is the key - it is Russell's work - and draws the sources to his conclusions.

 

Aye, but thats pretty much true of every book ever written. You don't have to agree with Russell; I especially dislike his chapter on Nietzsche.

[Darth InSidious]

Aye, but thats pretty much true of every book ever written. You don't have to agree with Russell; I especially dislike his chapter on Nietzsche.

I don't deny that - I just think it might be better for Arcesious if he were to read the originals without any preconditioned ideas on the subject, in order to form his own opinions.

[Astrotoy7]

I would also like to throw in that "thinking too much about this stuff" is not an entirely good way to spend your hours. They are the everpresent grey areas of our existence, that no one has or will be able to fully fathom.

 

You are young, enjoy yourself. Travel, work, play sports, take up an art, craft or instrument you are interested in. The world can be a wondrous place, and in the places where it isnt wondrous, you can do wonders to help out. That is *much* more useful and rewarding.

 

Overly dwelling on this stuff will get you nowhere, fast.

 

*sigh* I was born and raised within an Islamic community. whilst not a practising Muslim in the strictest sense, I will always say I am Islamic as it is party of my cultural identity. Still, despite all that, I envy the Pagan Romans, who revered their gods only as far as they were useful to them

 

mtfbwya

[Ray Jones]

So far, we're in agreement, Astro. X)

[Jae Onasi]

Those are all therapists.

p

Actually, the school counselors at the schools I've been at were all teachers, and teachers fall into the 'professional' category. Pastors are not therapists unless they have a separate license/certification in therapy also.

[Blix]

If you need a group to join I was thinking about starting my own Kabal. It only costs $500 up front and a major credit to join, and you'll receive a pen or a coffee mug. We don't have a name yet, but we're open to suggestion.

[Nedak]

Actually, the school counselors at the schools I've been at were all teachers, and teachers fall into the 'professional' category. Pastors are not therapists unless they have a separate license/certification in therapy also.

 

Thank you for acknowledging that. Most school counselors are quacks and are not certified in their profession.

 

Anyways, your letter sounds fine Arcesious, but if you're parents are very religiously controlling, then they may try harder to get you believing what they believe in.

[Astrotoy7]

So far, we're in agreement, Astro. X)

 

great minds think alike

 

though,

 

The last thing he needs to call on the plan is the professionals...

 

Everyone's experience is different of course. I myself found there was no one in my circle of friends and family I felt comfortable opening up to about certain stuff(not related to religion, but similar deep teenage musings!!).

 

In my culture(and I'm sure in many others) there is a negative stigma associated with a male not being ''sure of himself mentally'' I found it very beneficial to see a counsellor, whom basically listened to all my ramblings(unlucky her!) and helped me organise them in my mind. Her being an independent, professional person made me feel I could trust her simply as she is legally bound by patient confidentiality.. as opposed to "uncle whatshisface" who could giggle behind your back and tell your aunt what a screwy kid you are

 

I thoroughly recommend a counsellor/teacher etc, the only professionals I'd be weary of are psychiatrists of course...due to the potential dangers of being put on psychotropic meds when all you need is to have a chat and maybe a little sob.

 

Of course, being me I developed a wild infatuation for my counsellor, not because "she understood me" but ssimply because she was hot ..but that's another story

 

mtfbwya

[Ray Jones]

So, Astro, basically you say Arcesious should make out with your counsellor?

 

 

--

 

However, I already revised my statement earlier in this thread, saying that getting professional advisory can't be the wrong thing to do. ;

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

So, Astro, basically you say Arcesious should make out with your counsellor?

I think this is one of the best ideas in this thread.

[Jae Onasi]

I think this is one of the best ideas in this thread.

Except at Arcesious' age it'd probably be considered statutory rape or molestation or something, so probably not so good an idea.

[mur'phon]

No worries, astro will take care of her until arc turn 16:D

[Ray Jones]

Alternatively, we could satisfactorily show that Astro's counsellor did not get older, and is now, for a variety of reasons, at Arcesious' exact age. ^^

[Arcesious]

So, Astro, basically you say Arcesious should make out with your counsellor?

 

 

Well that is quite off topic... I don't think I need any therapy of that kind... Although I wouldn't mind some... XD

 

Well I guess all that can be said to contribute to this thread's topic has been said so... I guess we can call it done here.

[The Source]

Arcesious you have one other option. Just tell them the truth. You can read all you want about different philosophies and religions. When it all comes down to it, just tell them how you feel.

 

When it comes to making a choice about religion, I don't think myself or anyone else around here can really give you advice. Most of my own religious research and experiences come from being curious. I didn't have anyone's advice about where to start. Within my own experiences, I felt a powerful pull and interest in the insight of other cultures. While studying art history, I obtained an understanding of religious symbology. When I was exposed to 14th century literature, I was able to place the bible in literary history. "Did you know that a majority of the bible writtings were taken from other sources?" As a student of Catholisim, I was brought up shrouded with a Catholic interpritation of the bible. I attended for a good few years a Protestant congrigation, and realized there were mutiple opinion on how to translate the bible. When it all comes down to it, its about how you translate the history and culture of a religion. If you find a religion that fits you, talk to someone within the church. Find a mentor who can give you more information.

 

Keep in min one thing: Regardless about if you look at the "King James" or "Living Bible", they were constructed by individuals who sought power. Each one wants to control the iterpretation of the actual bible. "King James" was created as a public relations scheme. "Living Bible" was created as an argument over the flaws in King James", but it was an individual's opinion about where the flaws were. Otherwords, get as much information about a religion's bible. History can reveal some interesting things.

[Arcesious]

Well I think I'll use this thread as a place to tell about my progress and ask advice in increasing my progress in the issues that I am attempting to progress in with my parents.

 

I was talking to my dad about gays and democrats.

 

So I told him that it isn't our right to chose how a person lives, and he told me that in the Bible, God is against gays and he also said we shouldn't let them have marriage because it 'isn't right', because 'it's sin' . I then again told him that it still isn't our choice what other people can and can't do, and in order to keep him from thking I'm going athiest, I said 'even if it's a sin, it isn't our choice'. He then said that he wants to stick by God and that he'd show me soem Christian research and arguments about gays. He also said that Abortion is wrong, and I had to agree with him to avoid going too far.

 

Then I left that subject and talked to him about Deomocrats. I told him that I don't want Mccain, because the republican economy planning just isn't as good as the democratic plans. I told him, 'I've done the math and, simply, the deomocratic plans are better.'

He told me that he didn't like the values of democrats (Abortion, gays), and that's why he always votes republican. He then asked me if 'I was going democrat on him' , and I lied that I wasn't, only that I preferred having more of choice in the concept of democracy than with a republican system.

So then he brought up something called 'The Fairness Doctine' and told me it was wrong...

 

Advice on how to counter eventual further arguments without him starting to think I'm athiest/agnostic too soon?

[JCarter426]

Advice on how to counter eventual further arguments without him starting to think I'm athiest/agnostic too soon?

 

Might be a little severe, but...

 

He told me that he didn't like the values of democrats (Abortion, gays), and that's why he always votes republican.

 

1. The president has no actual power to do anything regarding abortion, gay marriage, etc, even with the president's power being ridiculously high these days.

 

2. Values like this are not supposed to take precedent in elections. Both the voters and the candidates themselves are to blame for bringing in issues like these.

 

3. Republicans themselves don't exactly hold up to these values either, no more than Democrats do.

[Arcesious]

I told him that republicans don't hold up those values either, but he doesn't beleive me. And he said because of the way Barrack interprets the Bible, (IE, homosexuality not being a sin), he doesn't want barrack obama as president. He still is agaisnt me about gays, but I'm worried if I tell him, 'then why does God make people gay?' and 'It's a proven fact that many people are born gay and it isn't usually a choice' then he'll get really mad at me and throw a bunch of 'biblical proof' crap at me...

[Totenkopf]

Well, your dad's values are much closer to traditional republican values, but the rep party also has its share of social progressives. Don't get too bogged down in dem/rep comparisons with your dad. But there are some problems with individual republicans failing to live up to the social mores they profess. For instance, but tread carefully, you might ask him how he feels about people like Limbaugh or Gingrich marrying and divorcing several times. What about liberal republicans like Olympia Snow or Susan Collins (to name but 2)? How well do they emulate the values he says Reps uhphold?

Just remember, you don't want to alienate your dad for the sake of scoring a few debating points. On the subject of homosexuality, there is no conclusive proof that people are born gay, though there have been studies that push that argument. W/in the context of Christianity, the practice of homosexuality IS a sin (but then so is fornication, etc...). If you are rejecting that faith, then sin is effectively meaningless to your frame of reference. FYI, though, he is right about the fairness doctrine. "Far right" radio is successful B/C people want to listen to it. The flipside of the argument is if the govt forces private enterprise to go tit for tat (or shut down altogether, as "far left" radio is a VERY difficult sell....Air America being a shinig example of that fact), will it also force universities to hire one conservative professor for every liberal professor on the faculty? What of all the other points of view? How about newspapers? TV? etc...

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

Except at Arcesious' age it'd probably be considered statutory rape or molestation or something, so probably not so good an idea.

woah woah woah, we're giving arcesious advice here, no need to drag in the legal woes of astro's therapist.

[Astrotoy7]

...Although I wouldn't mind some... XD

 

Ah, so Astro has taken you from contemplating Creationism, to thinkin about how babies are created

 

*receives transmission*

 

....your work here is finished my friend, go back to the command ship and await my orders....[/palpatine]

 

* * *

 

Arcesious, if you had said that you didnt want any at all.... then we *all* would have been deeply concerned for you.... might even have used that "call 911 in members local area" new mod button we had tk102 craft out of twigs and hay, MacGyver style.....

 

mtfbwya

[The Source]

I told him that republicans don't hold up those values either, but he doesn't beleive me. And he said because of the way Barrack interprets the Bible, (IE, homosexuality not being a sin), he doesn't want barrack obama as president. He still is agaisnt me about gays, but I'm worried if I tell him, 'then why does God make people gay?' and 'It's a proven fact that many people are born gay and it isn't usually a choice' then he'll get really mad at me and throw a bunch of 'biblical proof' crap at me...

Actually, God does not make people gay. During the first seven years of your life are critical. If someone's parents were successful enough, the individual would not have ended up gay. Keep in mind that the bible is not against gay people, but it is against the act of being gay. God keeps the door open for those who seek redemtpion, forgiveness, and salvation. It is not God who is shutting the door, it is the individual who is shutting the door. People try to bend God's law for themselves, When in all actuallity (sp?), the individual should be bending themselves for God's law.

 

I personally believe that the act of homosexuality is a sin, but I am not against the homosexual themselves. "It is not who we are inside, but what we do that define us." It is all about freewill. God gave people freewill for a reason. Its all about the war within the individual.

[JCarter426]

God gave people freewill for a reason.

 

Homosexuality isn't restricted to people, you know.

[Inyri]

So true! I had a boss once whose poodle was tooootally gay. xD

[The Source]

Homosexuality isn't restricted to people, you know.

Ah. I was waiting for something like this.

 

In order to make your argument, you will have to prove one thing. Did the Christian God create man in his image (the human soul), or did he create all animals on Earth in his image? Even though we are scientifically connected to all life, through the means of being an animal, the soul is what seperates us from being a primitive animal. We are in essence more aware than other animals. We have a more understanding of ourselves, and how we interact with the whole environment. Other animals do not have the brain compacity to make such distinctions. Freewill is a concept that is universally understood. In order to make a choice between right and wrong, without God's interferance, freewill was developed to allow mankind the freedom to choice God's way. What type of God would he be if he forced people to be good? When people freely give themselves to God, there are no strings attatched. Pople only have to bend themselves to God's law.

 

I was talking to my dad about gays and democrats.

 

So I told him that it isn't our right to chose how a person lives, and he told me that in the Bible, God is against gays and he also said we shouldn't let them have marriage because it 'isn't right', because 'it's sin' .

Arcesious,

It looks like you agree with God's perspective. Mankind does not have the right to judge each other. According to God's perspective, mankind can only descide between right or wrong. God is not against gay people themselves, personally, but he is against the act of being gay. When it comes to the marriage, I believe the Bible speaks volumes about the subject. Marriage is an act in which individuals of the oposite gender become one. Almost every story in the bible, the ones that revolve around families and marriage, potray a man and a women connection. Noah, Moses, Enoch, Seth, etc...