The worst game sequels

[TriggerGod]

I'll just say this... it's been a very, VERY long time since a decent Sonic game has been released...

 

I agree with you there. I sometimes hook up my old Genesis just to play those games, for nostalgic purposes.

 

EDIT: And this Sonic and the Black Knights or something or other doesn't look promising either :/

[Hawkstrong16]

Fail.

 

Let's just take a look at JK3 for a minute (or seven)...

 

First, the characters: Se have your generic, blank slate of a PC, who doesn't say anything other than "yes, Master Katarn" or "only one more...". If it's customization you want, you're out of luck. You can decide what your PC looks like, yes, but it's like stringing decorations on an aluminum pole. Pretty pretty lights don't change the fact that it's an aluminum pole. Then we have our cast of support characters--Kyle, who is his usual self, so no complaints there except there's no Jan, he only shows up in about three levels and a handful of cutscenes, and doesn't do much since he's no longer the PC. There's Rosh, who I'm not going to even bother talking about. Luke is just an annoying Kyle in this game, and then we have our typical vixens Tavion and Alora, who aren't compelling villains because they're just bosses for the levels they appear in. And then we have Chewie and Boba Fett because this game is so pathetic that it has to stoop so low as to include cameos from Original Trilogy characters in order to compensate for the overall disappointment that is the game's "story".

 

And what is that "story"? Well, I'll get to that, but first let's go over the levels; you're presented with a laundry list of five missions--but you only need to do four, because each one is as pointless as the next, so there's no harm in skipping any. In the first level, you run around, tabbing people with your lightsaber--no need to shoot because all other weapons are worthless--until you get to whatever checkpoints the level has, or until you flip all five switches of the level. Then repeat three more times. There's one slightly different level out of the bunch, in which you ride on a swoop bike or have your lightsaber taken away, that almost makes the others bearable. Almost.

 

If the repetitive levels don't cancel out the good ones, well, then the absolutely annoying levels do. There are a handful that have invincible enemies that either kill you every five minutes, or just annoy you while you're trying to finish off the level's idiotic objectives. And then there's the prison escape level with the same NPC appearance used for all 16 bloody prisoners, and the idiotic AI that causes them to run towards instantaneous death instead of taking the shorter, nearer path that leads away from it. And of course these levels are really no different than any other; you're still just running around flipping switches or setting off triggers. The only difference is that instead of being invincible, you're killed every five minutes, whether it be with sharp teeth or excruciating annoyance.

 

Now, after you do all that, you get a set of two or three mandatory, or "plot" levels. These are the ones that actually carry out the game's "story". Yet another group of lightsaber-wielding baddies is roaming the galaxy, sucking up all the residual Force energy in the universe. Your job is to go find out what they're doing, fail to stop them, then report back to your masters. These levels take place on planets that may look familiar, as they've appeared in just about every Star Wars game, book, comic, etc from the past ten years, or they're from the Original Trilogy, just to be there to give the fanboys a few laughs, much like Chewie and Boba. Or they're knockoffs of any of the above. Wait, come to think of it, it's not just the "plot" levels that are like that; every bloody level is like that.

 

Now, what happens in these levels? Not much. Basically, the same thing that happens in every other level, only it's much longer, and there's a boss at the end. And afterwards, your PC that almost never speaks up babbles something about the Force, and you are promoted, so apparently the plot is progressing. The only good news is that Rosh disappears, but you see him later, of course. Afterwards, you're presented with another five missions, then do a few more plot levels, etc. There's no point to go over the second and third set of missions, because they're really the same. The only difference is that you'll be facing more and more Dark Jedi wannabes.

 

Like JK2, the lightsaber combat is so flawed that there's no real point in strategizing. You just click away and hope that you kill them before they kill you. Or you can trick them to killing themselves, or in some cases you can run past them without them even noticing you're there. The downside--well, one of the downsides--is that you'll be facing fewer enemies with guns. Because they can't kill you with guns, you can't kill any other Jedi with guns, meaning if you try to avoid using the lightsaber in an effort to increase the so-called "difficulty", you're out of luck. Well, you'll get what you wish; the game will be a lot more difficult, but not in a good way.

 

In any case, the whole is really just filler. Things only get interesting once you reach the third set of "plot" levels, in which you break into an Imperial facility in order to save Rosh for some reason. He's tried to kill twice you already, but you still want to save him; apparently he's your friend, despite his shortcomings. In a startling turn of events, you're given the choice to either kill him or save him. I'm not sure if it's even possible to execute this any more poorly than it is done in this game. You actually get a message on the screen saying "to kill Rosh, kill him; to save Rosh, put away your saber". Real subtle. This isn't an RPG, so this is the only player choice in the game, other than the choice of Force powers which doesn't really matter, and it's executed so poorly.

 

They're really copying JK1 and MOTS in this instance. In JK1 the player made a light side/dark side choice at the beginning of the third act, leading to one of two endings. Only in JK1, the choice wasn't made by the player--not all at once, in any case; JK1 had a light/dark meter like KOTOR, which looked at what Force powers the player had chosen, how many civilians they'd killed, etc, placing them on either the light side or dark side. Yes, it took the choice away from the player, but remember that this isn't an RPG, and if they'd given the player a choice, like JK3, well, you'd end up with an idiotic message on the screen telling you what to do. And since JK3 has no plot--other than the "save Rosh or kill Rosh" moment--the rest of the game is rendered pointless; whatever you did up until that point didn't matter. Now, as for MOTS, it had only one ending, in which the player had to disarm in order to beat the game. It's rather anticlimactic combat-wise, but it fits with the rest of the game rather well, and there's no idiotic "put your saber away" message; instead there are a few subtle hints.

 

Now, as I said, there's no plot other than that moment. The game before that point is worthless, and the game after that point is pretty worthless as well. Yes, you still have to go beat your final boss, Tavion, but as I mentioned earlier, she's not a villain, and there's nothing that drives the player to defeat her other than mission objectives. You don't even see her until you're halfway through the game, other than a few brief appearances in which they intentionally hide her face in a vain attempt at a plot twist. So the next set of "plot" levels is as pointless as the last, and there are barely any guys with guns, and odds are they'll get killed before you reach them, since there's an "epic battle" going on, in which your fellow Jedi are fighting off the rest of the Cultists. If you killed Rosh, you'll have to fight both sides, so that means more hacking and slashing. I'm only pointing this out because the dark side ending isn't half bad, all things considered; but before you get to that you have this monotonous level of hacking, slashing, and jumping, even more so since you fight both sides.

 

Then you get to the final level. There are a dozen or so Cultists who you can just run past--and you probably should, because fighting them is just a waste of time--and then you get to Tavion. Again due to the shoddy combat system, she's either annoyingly tough, or goes down in one or two hits. You may have to reload a few times. Then if you were goody goody, she she resurrects Marka Ragnos and he possesses her, and you have to fight her again, only this time she's a bit easier because she doesn't have that annoying scepter. If you killed Rosh, she lets you kill her right away, which says to me that if you turn evil, life is easier. Kyle then comes in and tries to stop you. Instead of trying to kill you, he uses some Force-enhanced martial arts moves, which only show up at that one point in the game--a shame, since they look pretty cool, and would give a much-needed boost to saberless enemies.

 

But in any case, as I was saying, after you beat Tavion in the light side story, Kyle and Luke show up--a bit too late, as usual--and there's an obligatory closing cutscene in which Rosh gets a new hand and Jaden babbles about being born ready or something equally stupid. If you killed Rosh, you'd defeat Kyle, steal a Star Destroyer, and go prepare to conquer the galaxy with the sceptor, a homage to the dark side ending of JK1. Kyle survives, and decides to resign from the Order once again, ashamed because both of his students fell to the dark side and murdered lots of people. The dark side ending, the only good part of the game--other than killing Rosh--is of course non-canon version, a lost opportunity at redemption.

 

But I'll stop rambling now. All in all, JK3 was a glorified expansion pack for JK2, with an awful--nay, nonexistent--story, and an even worse combat system.

 

(Rant over. Sorry for the length.)

 

I love you, I could kiss you! lol. This is the best thing I have ever read. and I agree, my worst game sequels are JKA and KOTOR II.

(the best games ever were KOTOR I and JKII Outcast)

[Jae Onasi]

Dungeons and Dragons v.3.0. So bad that even WotC admitted it had to be fixed and came out with 3.5.

 

Who was the idiot who came up with attacks of opportunity? Yeah, like I'm going to take my eye off of the level 8 gazillion demon-god I''m fighting to take a swing at the level 2 goblin that stepped into the imaginary 5 foot square next to me.

[Rev7]

Yeah Spiderman 2 wasn't that great. I liked Spiderman 3 better.

 

I also don't really like the Rachet & Clank sequels. Not that good.

[Emperor Devon]

Yeah, like I'm going to take my eye off of the level 8 gazillion demon-god I''m fighting to take a swing at the level 2 goblin that stepped into the imaginary 5 foot square next to me.

 

And you won't if another demon-god happens to?

 

I don't think the rules for them are complicated. Getting within 5 feet of a creature gives it a free attack. Simple.

[Jae Onasi]

And you won't if another demon-god happens to?

 

I don't think the rules for them are complicated. Getting within 5 feet of a creature gives it a free attack. Simple.

You've never experienced real combat.

WotC wrote the rule simply enough, aside from the fact that doing that in real life woud get you killed quickly, so AoO is completely unrealistic.

[DrPhil2501]

The upcoming KoTOR MMO. nuff sed

[Emperor Devon]

WotC wrote the rule simply enough, aside from the fact that doing that in real life woud get you killed quickly, so AoO is completely unrealistic.

 

It's as realistic as combatants always taking 3-second turns to attack each other. Or the most experienced fighter in the world having a flat out 5% chance to miss hitting the broad side of a barn. Or a sloth having a 5% chance to hit something moving at the speed of light. Or being able to sunder an iron shield with stone pebbles.

 

The rules were written with mechanics in mind, not realism. From that perspective, they add balance to the game by making ranged weapons impractical in close combat and by giving martial characters an extra advantage against spellcasters (of which they need as many as they can get).

[Q]

The upcoming KoTOR MMO. nuff sed

Though I would initially agree with you, we really don't know enough about it yet to arrive at that kind of conclusion.

 

Let it be released first. Then we can rant about how much it sucks.

 

 

Meanwhile, the never-ending debate concerning D&D rules continues...

I must admit that I agree with RedHawke: they should have stuck with the 2nd Edition.

[DrPhil2501]

Though I would initially agree with you, we really don't know enough about it yet to arrive at that kind of conclusion.

 

Let it be released first. Then we can rant about how much it sucks.

 

...

 

Why the wait? I can assume this is EA's own doing, now that they pretty much own Biowares arse.

[Q]

Why the wait? I can assume this is EA's own doing, now that they pretty much own Biowares arse.

You are correct, yes, but I still prefer to wait until it's released before I commence with the deluge of piss and vinegar.

 

Do I think it will suck? Yes.

Do I know it will suck? No.

[ForeverNight]

Meanwhile, the never-ending debate concerning D&D rules continues...

I must admit that I agree with RedHawke: they should have stuck with the 2nd Edition.

 

Oh yeah! Sign me up for that. 2E is almost all I play... except when I'm with a group that only knows 3.5 and once I try explaining the proficiency system... well they get a little woozy on me...

 

But, as for bad sequels, Civilization 3-->Civilization 4

 

What were they thinking!?!? Giving each unit a set "Power Value" instead of different Attack and Defense Values???

 

Oh well... Sid Meier is still making a boatload o' cash off of it...

[Allronix]

Kings Quest 2 and Space Quest 2 -- nonsensical puzzles, numerous dead ends, and a lot of pointless ways to die. It also lacked the wit and snark that made Sierra games. Fortunately, the mojo came back to both series.

 

King's Quest: MOE - missed the whole POINT of the series, namely thinking your way out of the situation rather than slashing through it. No connection to Graham and the other characters we loved also hurt this installment big time. It really can't even be called a KQ game in most regards.

 

SW: KOTOR 2 -- I treat it like Greg Maguire's Oz books. It's a fanfic writer's goldmine, adding multiple layers and complexity to a universe that seemed so simple and cheerful. It exposes the conciets and the foundations of the universe, treating it all like a cynical lie. Kreia, like Elphaba, is wicked through and trough, but not without a laundry list of reasons and justified anger. Like Maguire's Oz, though, everyone is played in the most unflattering light possible, the universe is devoid of joy, hope, or even a point as the protagonist wanders from one cluster---k to the next without making much of anything much better or worse. Judging from both the content that made it in as well as the cutting room floor (Revan meeting some off-screen end with his/her skull being Nihilus's mask, Dustil gone nuts in the tombs), it also seemed that the whole point (if there was one) was to take a gigantic whiz all over any good feelings you may have had at the end of Knights 1. Add a "WTF?!" ending, bugged up dialogue, and the damn thing crashing every two hours, and you have one of the biggest killjoys ever.

 

Final Fantasy X-2 - I really hate putting this here, because it had some great moments. (The character of Payne, the doomed Shuyin, more chapters in the sad story of Spira) Yet, it had the same "dumb it down and dye it pink" style I loathed in "girl's cartoons" from my childhood. LeBlanc also made me wince every time she waltzed on screen.

[Q]

it also seemed that the whole point (if there was one) was to take a gigantic whiz all over any good feelings you may have had at the end of Knights 1

This is a huge part of why I love KotOR2, in spite of the fact that I loved KotOR1. A lot.

 

It doesn't make much sense, but there it is. There's something about the challenging of established conventions that really turns me on.

[SpaceAlex]

^^

Same here.

 

I like it dark and depressing. I actually thought the ending was OK. It would've been one of the best endings in a video game if they finished it. I hate the fact that party members just disappear after that battle with Nihilus.

 

Curse them.. those filthy little deadlineses. Curse them all!

[Chevron 7 locke]

The Worst sequel in my opinon is Spyro: Enter the dragonfly

[GwannaSauna]

KotOR II: The Sith Lords (sequel to original KotOR)

Jedi Academy (sequel to Jedi Outcast)

Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (sequel to Guitar Hero II)

Medal of Honor Heroes 2 (sequel to Medal of Honor Heroes)

 

 

All off the top of my head

[thundrfang1]

Oh my god i completely forgot

Castlevania--->Castlevania 2

WORST GAME SEQUEL EVER!

[Arátoeldar]

I must admit that I agree with RedHawke: they should have stuck with the 2nd Edition.

 

Add me to the list. 2.5e for life.

 

Why the wait? I can assume this is EA's own doing, now that they pretty much own BioWare's arse.

 

The Old Republic was started long before EA bought out Pandemic/BioWare.

 

By Your logic Dragon Age will automatically suck since EA has bought BioWare. Even though BioWare started on the game in 2004. I guess Mass Effect sucked too.

[RedHawke]

Dungeons and Dragons v.3.0. So bad that even WotC admitted it had to be fixed and came out with 3.5.

The mistake was creating a 3.0 system at all!

 

2E 4-evar! Viva La Resistance! Down with WotC! Storm their offices and burn them to the ground!

 

Who was the idiot who came up with attacks of opportunity? Yeah, like I'm going to take my eye off of the level 8 gazillion demon-god I''m fighting to take a swing at the level 2 goblin that stepped into the imaginary 5 foot square next to me.

Word!

 

And Feats... who ever heard of using a weapon as a "Feat"?

[Mav]

Oh no!... ready the ramparts, RedHawke's rampant, raving, rants are raining down...

[RedHawke]

Oh no!... ready the ramparts, RedHawke's rampant, raving, rants are raining down...

Not yet... I'll need some fresh chicken blood and some bat guano and sulfur to start stuff 'raining down!'

[Jae Onasi]

@Dev--you can be the greatest fighter, but can still have plain dumb luck and slip on a wet surface, have the weapon slip in your grasp because of sweat, whatever, and the worst fighter can sometimes have just plain dumb luck and hit just the right place at the right time. When I was learning fencing, I was fighting a guy who had in an earlier bout played with the blade of another gal to fluster her. He tapped his blade back and forth on either side of hers. She lost her concentration, and he beat her. About 2 rounds later, it was my turn to fight him. He had been fencing a good 2 years, I'd been fencing a whole month maybe. He tried the same blade-tapping on me thinking to fluster me as well. I just stood there until I got the timing of his tapping down, waited til his blade was outside mine, slid my blade down his so he couldn't attack quickly, and tagged him. I didn't beat him because of skill--he was considerably better than I was. I won because he was being stupid. That happens sometimes. He never made the mistake of playing with my blade again, either.

 

Now, if they made the critical hits/misses in completely impossible situations more like 1 in 100, I think it would be more 'realistic'.

 

Meanwhile, the never-ending debate concerning D&D rules continues...

I must admit that I agree with RedHawke: they should have stuck with the 2nd Edition.

I'm not entirely sure why they messed with a good thing.

Oh yeah! Sign me up for that. 2E is almost all I play... except when I'm with a group that only knows 3.5 and once I try explaining the proficiency system... well they get a little woozy on me..

Add me to the list. 2.5e for life.

The mistake was creating a 3.0 system at all!

2E 4-evar! Viva La Resistance! Down with WotC! Storm their offices and burn them to the ground!

And Feats... who ever heard of using a weapon as a "Feat"?

I can live with weapon proficiency feats because learning how to use a greatsword is quite different from an axe or mace. They require quite different techniques, knowledge of effective range for each, what you can do/can't do with each, and so on. Practically speaking, when I play I don't use any weapon proficiency other than what's available to my class/race--no point in wasting the feat so that my elf can wield a greatsword.

 

You know, we have 5 people here interested in 2E--perhaps an online game is in order? There's no way I could DM a game right away because I'm way too rusty on the rules, but I'd love to play a 2E game again.

[Mav]

When I was learning fencing...

What exactly can't Jae do?

[JAvatar80]

I'm up for a little 2E D&D. And if you need any planescape materials, Jae, let me know. I've got the WHOLE thing.