Is TOR as good as KOTOR III?

[Emperor Devon]

They don't 'owe' us anything... they're trying to make as much money as possible from fans.

 

I'll alert the media. This has to get out.

[Tommycat]

Funny thing that you mention epIII to epIV. Rather than that try EPII to EPIV. Personally I would rather have had EP I and II take place 300+ years before EPIV. At least they wouldn't have had so many issues with consistency between the prequels and the OT. Heck they could have had EP I and II take place 300+ years before, and have EP III show the purge and rise of Darth Vader 300 years later. At least we wouldn't have had the sappy love story that was EP II haha.

[Sharen Thrawn]

I'll alert the media. This has to get out.

:rofl:

 

That's right. They don't 'owe' us anything... they're trying to make as much money as possible from fans. That's why they're giving something that vaguely touches upon an ending for KOTOR... that way, they could leave open the possibility of a K3 if this goes under. If this came AFTER K3 were finished and released, then it would no longer have a base of fans to rely on.

I think they could have even a bigger fanbase to rely on if the MMO came after the third SP game. Kotor franchise become a classic after only two games released. The third one would only further establish the series position and enlarge it's already huge fanbase. A perfect base to introduce an MMO me think (doesn't it remind of Warcraft?).

[TKA-001]

Kotor franchise become a classic after only two games released.

That's because you can't really call it a franchise if the franchise has only produced one thing.

[Sharen Thrawn]

That's because you can't really call it a franchise if the franchise has only produced one thing.

Do you say that only one of the games became a classic?

[TKA-001]

No, I don't. How is that relevant to what I said?

[Sharen Thrawn]

No, I don't. How is that relevant to what I said?

Don't really get what you wanted to say in the original post

[TKA-001]

The key word was "franchise".

[Sharen Thrawn]

The key word was "franchise".

Franchise = a series of products. KOTOR franchise produced 2 video games and a series of comic books and I said that the whole franchise became a classic one in a very short amount of time. Then you say we can't really call sth a franchise if the franchise has only produced one thing. That's true of course but what does it have to do with KOTOR franchise which produced multiple things

[TKA-001]

Ok, you've got me. I forgot where I was going with that.

[Darth_Yuthura]

I guess that I'm not one to do the smart thing, but I'm going to keep posting for as long as there are others out there to listen.

 

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Sharen Thrawn made a good point that I utterly agree with. There was a fanbase to the KOTOR 'franchise' which might have been alienated by this latest thing.

 

I would have been interested in an MMO if the story took place in the KOTOR era. I, for one, feel cheated by TOR. They may have gotten more fans through what they did... they might not. I am one such KOTOR fan who WILL NOT be a part of this. I think that based on the poll I've given, that there are a number of KOTOR fans not content that this isn't a continuation of the KOTOR franchise.

 

I particularly hate this because it tramples upon the possibility for a third installation. Other projects like "the force unleashed" did not. Either do something completely different and leave KOTOR alone, or do the third installation, lucarts!

[Jae Onasi]

Sharen Thrawn made a good point that I utterly agree with. There was a fanbase to the KOTOR 'franchise' which might have been alienated by this latest thing.

I'll argue that TOR has just created an even bigger market of potential fans for any possible K3. I'll also re-iterate what Avery has said many times: we know absolutely nothing about the TOR story. We don't know if Revan and Exile will be given any kind of mention, much less how much of a part there is. In fact, as far as TOR is concerned, since it's set so far ahead of the Kotor series, if they make no mention at all of the 2, so be it.

 

For those who argue that TOR being 300 years ahead means that Revan and Exile lost, we don't know that. Use France for an example: Early 1800's, Napoleon mowed over a lot of Europe to become Emperor. Fast forward almost 150 years, and France is occupied by the Germans in WW2. Just because the Republic falls doesn't mean that Revan and Exile failed any more than just because France fell to the Germans means Napoleon failed in becoming an Emperor. All this just means is that the galaxy has been a very busy place in 300 years and a lot has change since Revan and Exile were around. Also, knowing that the Germans march into Paris in WW2 does not make the amazing story of Napoleon's conquering Europe any less fascinating or compelling. If LA decides to go back and hire a company to make K3, it's not going to be ruined by TOR unless TOR spoonfeeds us every last detail of history, and I doubt that will happen.

 

I would have been interested in an MMO if the story took place in the KOTOR era.

The Old Republic era takes place over thousands of years--the Kotor games occupy a tiny fraction of that time period. I'd love it if they did a game on Jolee, and I bet a good number of other people would like that, too. However, I'm not going to write off TOR completely because I can't have an 'Adventures of Jolee Bindo' RPG.

 

I, for one, feel cheated by TOR.

You know nothing about the game except it''s set 300 years after TSL and it's an MMO, and based on those 2 bits of info, you've now been 'cheated'. Right. How can you possibly be 'cheated' out of something that was never promised to begin with? Go ahead and be disappointed if you want, but don't tell me you were cheated. If anything, you've cheated yourself by having the expectation to begin with. That's just the way life goes sometimes. This is a business decision--Star Wars is extremely popular, and MMOs are extremely popular. From a business point of view, it makes absolute sense to make a SW MMO rather than a SP RPG.

 

They may have gotten more fans through what they did... they might not.

Looking at the numbers of threads in this forum and the huge numbers of people on the TOR forum, it looks to me like they'll have earned a lot more fans, provided they can produce a good product at a decent price.

I am one such KOTOR fan who WILL NOT be a part of this.

So? I didn't get my Jolee game either--big whip. That's your loss, then, because it sounds like it'll be a lot of fun, regardless of whether Revan and Exile have anything to do with it.

 

I think that based on the poll I've given, that there are a number of KOTOR fans not content that this isn't a continuation of the KOTOR franchise.

Did you carefully construct your poll questions with absolutely no bias, seek out a broad cross-section of all gaming fans, and get a sufficiently large sample size (minimum 100) to make the results meaningful? No? Then basing any kind of business decision off of this would be most unwise. All it says in this completely non-scientific poll is there are 62 fans on Lucasforums who wished for K3 but won't see it any time soon (if ever).

I particularly hate this because it tramples upon the possibility for a third installation.

There is no possible way you can know that when we know nothing about the TOR story or any projects LA may have in the pipeline.

 

Other projects like "the force unleashed" did not. Either do something completely different and leave KOTOR alone, or do the third installation, lucarts!

They are doing something different--they're setting it ahead 300 years so they don''t even have to mention a single thing about Kotor if they don''t want to. There's a Clone Wars game and it's set in the Old Republic, too. I suppose that's not OK, either. Heaven forbid we branch out into new territory.

[Hallucination]

All it says in this completely non-scientific poll is there are 62 fans on Lucasforums who wished for K3 but won't see it any time soon (if ever).

Despite what the poll numbers say, there are are actually 61.

[Darth_Yuthura]

That's right, this has enough in terms of numbers (>30) but this was not just a random sample drawn out from a whole. The majority of those that chose to vote were against 300 years later.

 

And Jae's example of France doesn't make sense to me. It would have been more like if France had been occupied right after the times of Napolion. Instead of liberating his State, Napolion would have left it exposed for invasion 150 years later by Germany. This did not happen, as France was the dominant power in Europe after Napoleon. And in between his campaign was WWI... therefore, WWII and Napolion's campaigns were completely unrelated.

 

And I will continue to believe that I was cheated. It was reasonable to assume, based on KOTOR II, that a third installation was going to be made. An official at Lucasarts had once stated "We won't leave KOTOR behind" It is reasonable to be disappointed that they made a huge climax and just left it behind.

[Astor]

That's right, this has enough in terms of numbers (>30) but this was not just a random sample drawn out from a whole. The majority of those that chose to vote were against 300 years later.

 

That's because the questions in the poll directly link to KOTOR III, which is an unreasonable connection to make in the first place. You've assumed that TOR's story will directly relate to the KOTOR series, when there's no evidence of that.

 

An official at Lucasarts had once stated "We won't leave KOTOR behind" It is reasonable to be disappointed that they made a huge climax and just left it behind.

 

Which, so far, they haven't left it behind. There hasn't been a game in 3-4 years, but that doesn't mean it's been left behind. The announcement of TOR doesn't mean that KOTOR is dead.

[Jeff]

There's also no evidence whatsoever that TOR is taking the place of KOTOR III, or that a KOTOR III won't happen because of TOR.

Actually, TOR is in place of KotOR 3. In the unveiling video Ray and Greg (BioWare founders) discuss why they are making this instead of KotOR 3, and how it is really KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, etc.

[gianner]

You cant compare those two. Its true and obvious TOR wont be taking the place of KOTOR III. But I bet you all heard their promises for learning what happened to Revan and the others.

Bioware hasn't abandoned yet the idea of KOTOR III. Although chances of it being created are minimal...

Now this poll is completely useless, because there is no meaning comparing TOR with a possible KOTOR III (No offence...)

[Prime]

There's also no evidence whatsoever that TOR is taking the place of KOTOR III, or that a KOTOR III won't happen because of TOR.

Actually, there is, isn't there? I thought LA and Bioware basically have come out and said that is the case. I seem to remember that, although someone can correct me if that is wrong.

[Jeff]

You cant compare those two. Its true and obvious TOR wont be taking the place of KOTOR III. But I bet you all heard their promises for learning what happened to Revan and the others.

Bioware hasn't abandoned yet the idea of KOTOR III. Although chances of it being created are minimal...

Now this poll is completely useless, because there is no meaning comparing TOR with a possible KOTOR III (No offence...)

Uh...

Actually, TOR is in place of KotOR 3. In the unveiling video Ray and Greg (BioWare founders) discuss why they are making this instead of KotOR 3, and how it is really KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, etc.

[Astor]

I stand corrected on that point - I have to say i've only recently started to follow the development of TOR, so I didn't know that.

[Darth_Yuthura]

It has been explicitly stated that TOR was what was being made instead of KOTOR III, IV, ext. Since the first TOR... if there is a second or more after that... takes place 300 years later, most of what was in the KOTOR era is gone.

 

Some people said this was a clean slate to make a better story than right after TSL, but I didn't want a clean slate with no explanation for how it went from one era to the next outside of a vague history that would be told in the background of this new thing. If there were a proper ending to the first era... a KOTOR III... then I would be more accepting of TOR, but its emergence means the death of any of that.

[Christos K]

I have faith in this game and I hope it will be fun and all but it will never ever replace my hopes of a true KotOR 3.

[gianner]

Actually, TOR is in place of KotOR 3. In the unveiling video Ray and Greg (BioWare founders) discuss why they are making this instead of KotOR 3, and how it is really KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, etc.

 

No its not. They didnt say instead of KotOR 3 you really get 3, 4, 5, 6, etc.

They said that the story will be so big, that it will be like having KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, etc altogether.

 

My opinion is that you cant compare two different games (RPG & MMORPG). Its like comparing milk with ice-cream.

[Darth_Yuthura]

I'm more interested in the story than the change in the game format.

 

300 years later is like the comparison above in terms of the story. You can't make milk from ice-cream, but you can make ice-cream from milk. Naturally, you can't expect that all who demand milk would buy ice-cream. Once it's processed, you can't revert it.

[Tommycat]

Darth Yuthura, your poll is hardly unbiassed. There was no possible alternative answer. Your poll has only "Yes it killed the story", "I don't mind that it killed the story," and "what story give me gameplay." To be a fair poll, you have to have Yes, No, Not sure. And honestly at this point, we have no idea what the story is. None of us know whether Revan was frozen in carbonite only to continue his story at a later date.

 

Where is the answer for the KotOR fans that won't play TOR because it's an MMO? The answer that reads, "I don't care because I won't play an MMO." The closest answer for them is either "yes it killed it" or "Gameplay is what matters"

 

And the milk and ice cream analogy:

ah but there are people who would buy milk that would buy ice cream, cheese, and other milk based products. And you couldn't expect that all the people that like ice cream would necessarily want to buy milk. Milk 300 years later can still be gotten. Maybe not from the same cow(as of yet), but it can still be gotten. erm... where the heck is this going?