GarfieldJL Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Then please explain, in great detail, the entire Guantanamo prison complex, from its cells to its mess halls. Seeing as you probably didn't read any of the articles, you'd find that in the second paragraph of the CNN one states that the research was carried out by an independent party, not by CNN themselves. And I'm still laughing, seeing as you're completely tossing out the truth, even when it's been backed up by three separate sources. Uh is this any relation to the Article Newsweek was forced to retract? This sounds like the "soldier" saying she participated in war crimes in Iraq, and Rush Limbaugh proved her story false because she had never been to Iraq.
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 uh does your little newsweek tangent or your rush limbaugh anecdote have anything to do with the discussion? because it sounds like it doesn't. desperation is an ugly cologne garfield, stop attacking three different sources because you don't like the facts.
EnderWiggin Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Uh is this any relation to the Article Newsweek was forced to retract? This sounds like the "soldier" saying she participated in war crimes in Iraq, and Rush Limbaugh proved her story false because she had never been to Iraq. What the **** does Newsweek have to do with anything? The sources Jmac quoted (posted by J7) weren't Newsweek. Not Newsweek. NOT NEWSWEEK. _EW_
jonathan7 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Fine, I'm having my last and final jab at Gitmo... Gitmo, violates both the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. Observe; When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. Gitmo is not something that can ever be in line with the Declaration of Independence, as Gitmo is the antithesis of the above, and of the Bill of rights.... Now the main thing of the Bill of rights violated by Gitmo is this; AMENDMENT XIII Passed by Congress January 31, 1865. Ratified December 6, 1865. Note: A portion of Article IV, section 2, of the Constitution was superseded by the 13th amendment. Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. Furthermore of course; Amendment VI In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence. Oh and another bit; Amendment VIII Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. What is the point of the Bill of Rights if you choose to violate it at your own convenience, sure the guys held may not be your citizens, but the fore-fathers would be turning in there graves over it, and indeed you make the Bill of Rights not worth the paper its printed on by not observing it (which is a shame as Thomas Jefferson really knew what he was doing when he came up with them both).
mimartin Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 jonathan7, I’m not even sure that is relevant. American has pretty much done away with the Bill of Rights since 2001 in order to protect ourselves from terrorist. Nice post That said, I’ll say it again. The only reason to have a place like Guantanamo, on foreign soil, is to attempt to circumvent our own laws.
JediMaster12 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Which does nothing more than feed our desire to be an imperialist power with this neocolonialism. We just hide behind our "humanitarian" efforts to make us look good.
Astor Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Obama Orders Guantanamo Closure. Of course, the question still remains - what to do with the inmates?
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 harvest their organs and push the rest into the sea
Tommycat Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 Of course, the question still remains - what to do with the inmates? Soylent Green?
Jedi_Man Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 And, more news from gitmo, via secret military source , the pres only wants to close teh prison, everything else should be left there, which makes even less sense. all gitmo really is is a prison, so then all thats left is just a base that has no value anymore.
The Doctor Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Which does nothing more than feed our desire to be an imperialist power with this neocolonialism. We just hide behind our "humanitarian" efforts to make us look good. Our first contender for Kavar's Post of the Year.
EnderWiggin Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 And, more news from gitmo, via secret military source , the pres only wants to close teh prison, everything else should be left there, which makes even less sense. all gitmo really is is a prison, so then all thats left is just a base that has no value anymore. Yes, that's what the order said, close the prison. The base does in fact have value, and it makes no sense to completely abandon our post in Cuba. _EW_
Jedi_Man Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 True, true. But the its just a place in the middle of an island. with a lake in the middle. Ofcourse, I haven't been studying military tactics or stuff like that lately, so for all I know, it could be the best spot inthe world for a base. BUt I still think its mostly a Prison and without it its just a base. But I wuld have to ask my dad about it, after all, he would know, he was stationed there.
Jae Onasi Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 True, true. But the its just a place in the middle of an island. with a lake in the middle. Ofcourse, I haven't been studying military tactics or stuff like that lately, so for all I know, it could be the best spot inthe world for a base. BUt I still think its mostly a Prison and without it its just a base. But I wuld have to ask my dad about it, after all, he would know, he was stationed there. It's highly strategic for its position on Cuba. While Cuba-Russia relations are not the same as what they once were, many have never forgotten the Cuban missile crisis. The US wants to keep a close eye on a Communist country that is within missile range.
jrrtoken Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 It's highly strategic for its position on Cuba. While Cuba-Russia relations are not the same as what they once were, many have never forgotten the Cuban missile crisis. The US wants to keep a close eye on a Communist country that is within missile range.Which IMO, doesn't make too much sense, especially when the US opened diplomatic relations with Vietnam. The Vietnamese communist government, IIRC, has taken far more American lives than Castro's, right? Common sense states that the Us should open foreign relations with Cuba, though past grudges and attitudes have rendered that option dead.
GarfieldJL Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 you have no way of knowing any of this. Actually I have found a source that only 3 people were tortured at Gitmo, and they were all Al Qaeda leaders. http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost.php?p=2581582&postcount=84 There is a link to the post where I gave the source.
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 thank god the director of the cia was around to downplay what happened there.
GarfieldJL Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 thank god the director of the cia was around to downplay what happened there. He didn't downplay anything, the media was just guilty of exagerating (putting it mildly) the scope of what happened (as usual).
mimartin Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 I believe putting the number tortured at three is going to depend on the person’s definition of torture. We should remember that the Bush administration was animate that waterboarding was not torture. Personally I do consider waterboarding torture.
GarfieldJL Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 I believe putting the number tortured at three is going to depend on the person’s definition of torture. We should remember that the Bush administration was animate that waterboarding was not torture. Personally I do consider waterboarding torture. No, because 3 is the number of people that were waterboarded, if you define waterboarding as torture only 3 people were tortured.
mimartin Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 I however don’t only include waterboarding as torture. I’ve also seen sources, that I find creditable, put that put the number higher than the source you find creditable. So let’s just say I am in disagreement with the putting the number at 3. I’m however not in position to know the exact number.
The Doctor Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 I however don’t only include waterboarding as torture. I’ve also seen source, that I find creditable, put that put the number higher than the source you find creditable. So let’s just say I am in disagreement with the putting the number at 3. I’m however not in position to know the exact number. None of us are, to be honest. But I'd willing to bet good money that, over the years that Gitmo's been open, there have been significantly more than 3, as Garfy is suggesting.
Adavardes Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 No, because 3 is the number of people that were waterboarded, if you define waterboarding as torture only 3 people were tortured. Yup, only three people were tortured (*snort*), so that makes it okay. Totally makes sense.
EnderWiggin Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 No, because 3 is the number of people that were waterboarded, if you define waterboarding as torture only 3 people were tortured. 1. I define torture as more things than that. 2. You have no idea how many it was, stop claiming to have a number. 3. I only have two points. _EW_
GarfieldJL Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 [sarcasm]Yeah, I'm sorry that their meal may have been 10 minutes late one day.[/sarcasm] Seriously, you have no evidence the other way, and our soldiers are innocent until proven guilty.
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