TSL'S Story Being "Cancelled"?

[Ghost]

That people make video games.

 

This.

 

Bioware wasn't all bad, but they weren't the best either. But, they were the ones who created Kotor, so we should be happy that they even decided to make that story, and that Obsidian continued it in a more realistic way. I really don't see the point moaning about how TSL is being retconned by TOR, since it isn't up to us to determine canon. I do, however, despise how they added to Revan's story, giving him the classic evil Sith background. For once, Star Wars made sense in TSL. And so many people "worshipped" Revan because he was a mystery, a person who had a sense of individuality rather than a collective mind like the Jedi and the Sith both. He probably was one of the best minds in of his time.

 

Think about it, he knew what sacrifices had to be made for the future, he outwitted and outperformed the Mandalorians, who were known to be the one of the best fighting forces in the galaxy. (Plus TSL made the Mandalorians seem less like mindless brutes). Then, at Malachor, Revan defeated the Mandalorians in one swift move, and sacrificed those men who were not loyal to Revan. He then converted all those people to his cause.

 

I liked it better when Revan was his own master, when he wasn't influenced by some sith master. But Bioware had to ruin it for us, which also ruins some of Kotor. If they were on a mission to find the Star maps, then why was it said Revan and Malak searched for them during the Mandalorian Wars? *sigh* I guess things have to be ruined for certain games.

 

Anyway, Bioware is a good company, but they have LucasArts which are making the decisions. So really, we should be blaming LucasArts for ruining everything.

[TKA-001]

Why is LucasArts trying to erase the story of THE SITH LORDS and pretend that its events never happened (you know, with Kreia, the Exile, and so on)?

 

First of all, they aren't.

 

Second, we need a master thread stickied for this topic somewhere.

[Darth Avlectus]

not to mention that kreia's theories are just that, theories (and trying to save face for her star pupil turning to the dark side)

 

i never took it as the undisputed truth.

 

I'd call it more speculation: Some truth, and lots of interpretation. All she really said as a matter of fact was that Revan's motives were always his own and that he was true to himself. Which to be honest fits right into the plot outlined w/ TOR.

 

I will say that anyone entrusting procurement of the Star Forge to a couple lackeys is making a stupid mistake, 1300 years old or not. But in the end it was of little to no matter anyways. So he must have seen and known its capabilities before and was able to work out scenarios in either case.

[mstr kenobi]

I'd call it more speculation: Some truth, and lots of interpretation. All she really said as a matter of fact was that Revan's motives were always his own and that he was true to himself. Which to be honest fits right into the plot outlined w/ TOR.

 

I will say that anyone entrusting procurement of the Star Forge to a couple lackeys is making a stupid mistake, 1300 years old or not. But in the end it was of little to no matter anyways. So he must have seen and known its capabilities before and was able to work out scenarios in either case.

 

agreed,a lot of speculation

if i remember correctly,even kreia says "maybe he didn't fall,maybe he was just being true to himself" even her hesitates in making that afirmation...

 

hummm... the emperor didn't want to show himself and lead a direct assault on the republic and the jedi at full strength, and he needed Revan to be an actual treat and wreak havok in republic space, not a weekend distraction to the jedi council.

 

maybe he calculated both would end up destroyed,or close to that...

[Prime]

I really don't see the point moaning about how TSL is being retconned by TOR, since it isn't up to us to determine canon. I do, however, despise how they added to Revan's story, giving him the classic evil Sith background.

So you are complaining that they added to the story? I'm not sure that the retcons are that you are referring to. As some others have said, at first glance things seem to fit together.

[Mav]

I hope they retcon Jar-Jar into the story, <3 Jar-Jar~~

[Tysyacha]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

What's the opposite of <3? I do THAT to Jar-Jar.

[Jae Onasi]

There are red headed French lesbians in TOR??? AWESOMEZ

Mais oui, mon amour.

 

Seriously, TOR's supposed to be a few hundred years into the future from the K1/TSL storylines, so they don't necessarily have to retcon anything. Bioware pretty much gets to start from scratch with that much time between those games.

[Darth Avlectus]

agreed,a lot of speculation

if i remember correctly,even kreia says "maybe he didn't fall,maybe he was just being true to himself" even her hesitates in making that afirmation...

 

IIRC exile said something on the order of [hidden]revan being a monster

and that was part of what Kreia said, correcting the Exile.

 

 

hummm... the emperor didn't want to show himself and lead a direct assault on the republic and the jedi at full strength, and he needed Revan to be an actual treat and wreak havok in republic space, not a weekend distraction to the jedi council.

 

I'm still thinking through it. I mean if he _really_ wanted the Star Forge, it was a VERY stupid idea...

 

However, now I'm beginning to wonder if it wasn't "conditional" strategy all along.

 

Admittedly not an easy change in tone for me, but it's really the only way I can make sense of this.

 

1) If Revan was strong of mind and will, Then Revan would take the remnants of this old technology for himself and attempt to take over the galaxy with it.

 

2) If Revan was not strong of mind and will, Then the Star Forge would fall into the Emperor's hands with Revan as a proxy, and things would proceed ahead of schedule (or on schedule depending).

 

As a contingency either way, the Emperor could have "sealed himself away" safely from the weapon. If what Canderous said in K1 was right.

 

What remains consistent for both scenarios would be somehow knowing that the Star Forge was limited. (Referring to G0-T0's talk about Revan, and to the Holocron on Korriban for the scenario in the wake of Dark Side Revan). This might imply that he knew of the Rakatan history himself. However this is troubling because as we know the Rakatans had been the only previous ones in possession and there is nothing to support that it had any other users in possession of it. The knowledge wasn't really widely available...Sure access to SOME of it might have been possible, but that has yet to be clarified.

 

I'm guessing this Sith Emperor's rival looked in vain for the Star Forge (he had one map in his possession afterall). It would certainly seem that way.

 

 

maybe he calculated both would end up destroyed,or close to that...

 

I'm still trying to figure it out, personally. What the emperor did and did not know (and when) is now starting to become a subject of interest to me.

 

Lots of intrigue. That's for sure.

[Mav]

What's the opposite of <3?

... </3 .... *sigh*

[igyman]

What's interesting to me is that the title of Sith Emperor seems to have been held by one person for several hundred years (unless I'm poorly informed), meaning the Sith Emperor who turned Revan and Malak is the same person leading the Sith Empire in TOR. It's Star Wars, so there are several possible explanations for this, but wouldn't it be fun if he turned out to be Vandar Tokare who didn't really die on Katarr (after all, that particular species does have the necessary lifespan)?

[Prime]

but wouldn't it be fun if he turned out to be Vandar Tokare who didn't really die on Katarr (after all, that particular species does have the necessary lifespan)?

That would make me cry.

[Sabretooth]

Seriously, TOR's supposed to be a few hundred years into the future from the K1/TSL storylines, so they don't necessarily have to retcon anything.

The reason it's set a few hundred years into the future is that they don't have to retcon anything.

[mstr kenobi]

IIRC exile said something on the order of [hidden]revan being a monster

and that was part of what Kreia said, correcting the Exile.

 

 

 

 

I'm still thinking through it. I mean if he _really_ wanted the Star Forge, it was a VERY stupid idea...

 

However, now I'm beginning to wonder if it wasn't "conditional" strategy all along.

 

Admittedly not an easy change in tone for me, but it's really the only way I can make sense of this.

 

1) If Revan was strong of mind and will, Then Revan would take the remnants of this old technology for himself and attempt to take over the galaxy with it.

 

2) If Revan was not strong of mind and will, Then the Star Forge would fall into the Emperor's hands with Revan as a proxy, and things would proceed ahead of schedule (or on schedule depending).

 

As a contingency either way, the Emperor could have "sealed himself away" safely from the weapon. If what Canderous said in K1 was right.

 

What remains consistent for both scenarios would be somehow knowing that the Star Forge was limited. (Referring to G0-T0's talk about Revan, and to the Holocron on Korriban for the scenario in the wake of Dark Side Revan). This might imply that he knew of the Rakatan history himself. However this is troubling because as we know the Rakatans had been the only previous ones in possession and there is nothing to support that it had any other users in possession of it. The knowledge wasn't really widely available...Sure access to SOME of it might have been possible, but that has yet to be clarified.

 

I'm guessing this Sith Emperor's rival looked in vain for the Star Forge (he had one map in his possession afterall). It would certainly seem that way.

 

 

 

 

I'm still trying to figure it out, personally. What the emperor did and did not know (and when) is now starting to become a subject of interest to me.

 

Lots of intrigue. That's for sure.

 

 

My point about Kreia and Revan is that her opinion shouldn't be taken as the absolute truth (although other things in tsl,like Goto's opinion on Revan,sugest she is close to the truth)

I actually agree on that opinion,but there's no proof, so if he actually was being a lackey to the emperor i wouldn't consider a retcon,simply, Kreia was wrong about him...

 

Yeah, if the Star Forge was his trump card,that was veeery bad move...

If he knew/figured out it's limitations than it's just another asset to be used,still a powerfull one granted...

I don't remember what Canderous said(you know 2003 looong time ago lol),could you help me here

 

Still after the events of Kotor leading up to TSL,both the republic/jedi and Malak's sith are done and destroyed,which begs the question,why wait 300 years to attack?????and where the army that we see in TOR comes from????They were just there all this time???? or this army has just been formed?????

 

questions questions questions

[Darth InSidious]

TSL didn't sell as well and was less popular critically than KotOR. Which may be part of the reason that LA and Bio have rather glossed over it.

 

What's more interesting is why Bioware have glossed over the Mandalorian Wars in their video-promo-things, which was their own invention. Maybe they're playing with unreliable narrators, but if so it's something of a deviation from type for them.

 

I'm not a fan of mandalorians, but retconning the Mando Wars just doesn't seem to make much sense.

[Darth Avlectus]

What do you mean, DI? They mentioned it, though admittedly it too has been rather marginalized. I agree with you that marginalizing them just doesn't make sense, but we sort of knew the mandos were pawns all along. Didn't we?

 

Yeah, if the Star Forge was his trump card,that was veeery bad move...

If he knew/figured out it's limitations than it's just another asset to be used,still a powerfull one granted...

Then you quite well realize where the story is headed here. It's inevitably on a collision course with the following... Was this a lack of judgment by the emperor or a wasteful choice?

 

Either way it makes him look like a fool.

I don't remember what Canderous said(you know 2003 looong time ago lol),could you help me here

 

That it hadn't originally been the mando's idea or plan to attack the republic as it was: They were somehow made to do it by the sith, who then sealed themselves safely away.

 

Shem posted some pics awhile back on this very bit of conversation.

 

Still after the events of Kotor leading up to TSL,both the republic/jedi and Malak's sith are done and destroyed,which begs the question,why wait 300 years to attack?????and where the army that we see in TOR comes from????They were just there all this time???? or this army has just been formed?????

 

questions questions questions

 

Well, there could be any number of reasons which I'm sure have been invented, but substantively the best strategy would have been to attack a severely weakened republic. I'm sure the "sealing away" could have had something to do with that but...that raises questions of if Revan had not become amnesiac, what was to stop Revan from using the Star Forge and destroying Dromund Kas or other sith planets? Did this sith emperor somehow have superior technology? All indications would point to "no" in that area.

 

So BioWare "has some 'splainin' to do". Seriously.

 

There are several possibilities but for the moment I'm too tired and have not thought them through yet.

[mstr kenobi]

As it is set now, he, the emperor, looks quite stupid...

 

Send someone as your vanguard with no follow up plan...

Hand your best weapon to the "new guy"...

 

They really have 300 years of explaining to do...

The best thing that occurs me,is that somehow Revan and the exile succeded in slowing down his plans.

[Seikan]

Well, if the republic still is a problem for the Siths, after 300 years of planning and preparation(The battle of alderaan was 28 years before the attack on Coruscant, so 28 years of War without winning...), I'm wondering what would happen if revan haven't been betrayed by Malak, he would have a HUGE armada, with the Star Forge, and the Siths would be 300 years unprepared, i can't figure at which point they were at that moment, if they have a hard time after the 300 years...

 

So, maybe without Malak, Revan could have kick the emperor's ass before he prepare all his Sith Armada.

[Blix]

Plot-no-jutsu...oh wait wrong venue

[Nedak]

What the hell is a "retcon"?

[Litofsky]

Wiki is your friend.

[Q]

What the hell is a "retcon"?

In short, it comprises ~99% of the Star Wars universe.

[Nedak]

Ah...abbreviations...