Loom sequel speculation

[TimeGentleman]

I'm taking this, posted without context and apropos of nothing, as a sign that Kelly has some secret info on an upcoming Loom sequel:

 

 

Could Devolver Digital have worked out a RTMI style deal with Lucasfilm Games and Brian Moriarty?!

[elTee]

This would make me so happy. Loom has such a rich world and a fascinating lore. After what happened at the start of this month, anything is possible...

[Rum Rogers]

I'd be happy with a remaster, let alone a sequel! Please let it be Forge!

[ThunderPeel2001]

Wasn't DoubleFine primed to be involved in a Remaster or Sequel at some point? I seem to remember seeing Loom featured prominently on a monitor in the DFA documentary... or maybe it was all just rumours and speculation from that one shot in the documentary? Either way, intriguing!

[Udvarnoky]

Tim's line at the time was to the effect that he only considered it appropriate to remaster the LucasArts games he worked on in a project lead capacity. This baffled me, as I felt that Double Fine's tasteful approach qualified them in general and could just as easily have been applied to other games (and I wish they'd been the ones to do MI1 and MI2). Double Fine at that time seemed to have an in with Lucasfilm/Disney through Sony that might not have been easily reproducible at another studio.

 

I wish they would have kept going while the iron was hot and the necessary connections established. Not to mention that they still could have invited the relevant folks (e.g. Hal Barwood if you're remastering Fate of Atlantis, Brian Moriarty if you're remastering Loom) who were willing/able to participate or at least have signoff. It's not like those guys own their own studios and Tim would thus be stealing their lunch.

 

I suspect if the remasters sold like absolute hot cakes, we might have seen more of the catalog get the treatment.

[ThunderPeel2001]

29 minutes ago, Udvarnoky said:

Tim's line at the time was to the effect that he only considered it appropriate to remaster the LucasArts games he worked on in a project lead capacity. This baffled me, as I felt that Double Fine's tasteful approach qualified them in general and could just as easily have been applied to other games (and I wish they'd been the ones to do MI1 and MI2). Double Fine at that time seemed to have an in with Lucasfilm/Disney through Sony that might not have been easily reproducible at another studio.

 

I wish they would have kept going while the iron was hot and the necessary connections established. Not to mention that they still could have invited the relevant folks (e.g. Hal Barwood if you're remastering Fate of Atlantis, Brian Moriarty if you're remastering Loom) who were willing/able to participate or at least have signoff. It's not like those guys own their own studios and Tim would thus be stealing their lunch.

 

I suspect if the remasters sold like absolute hot cakes, we might have seen more of the catalog get the treatment.

 

Yes, exactly. I'd have expected them to pull in the right people to consult on the things. I think this also stoked the fire that they were involved:

 

 

 

[Udvarnoky]

There's one other wrinkle to this story.

[ThunderPeel2001]

57 minutes ago, Udvarnoky said:

There's one other wrinkle to this story.

 

I knew there was another side to this! I had a vague memory of this video. Now I understand. I guess DF just ran out of time and expected to be able to extend the option. Darn. I wonder what else we would have had if they'd not let the option expire.

[OzzieMonkey]

19 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

I knew there was another side to this! I had a vague memory of this video. Now I understand. I guess DF just ran out of time and expected to be able to extend the option. Darn. I wonder what else we would have had if they'd not let the option expire.

The question is...who purchased the option after it expired with Double Fine? 

[Lagomorph01]

5 hours ago, Udvarnoky said:

There's one other wrinkle to this story.

Really sad to hear this… It would’ve been a dream to see Double Fine tackle more LucasArts remasters. They were done so respectfully to the source material, and so much better than the Monkey Island special editions.

[Zaxx]

13 hours ago, Udvarnoky said:

Tim's line at the time was to the effect that he only considered it appropriate to remaster the LucasArts games he worked on in a project lead capacity. This baffled me, as I felt that Double Fine's tasteful approach qualified them in general and could just as easily have been applied to other games (and I wish they'd been the ones to do MI1 and MI2). Double Fine at that time seemed to have an in with Lucasfilm/Disney through Sony that might not have been easily reproducible at another studio.

 

I wish they would have kept going while the iron was hot and the necessary connections established. Not to mention that they still could have invited the relevant folks (e.g. Hal Barwood if you're remastering Fate of Atlantis, Brian Moriarty if you're remastering Loom) who were willing/able to participate or at least have signoff. It's not like those guys own their own studios and Tim would thus be stealing their lunch.

 

I suspect if the remasters sold like absolute hot cakes, we might have seen more of the catalog get the treatment.

I get the hard feelings towards the MI1 remaster but what's wrong with MI2? I think it's pretty much perfect: the remastered art is nice and doesn't steer far away from the original, the voice acting work is amazing, the user interface is great etc. I have only two gripes with it, one being that the original intro with the credits wasn't remastered (just partially kinda if you turn on the classic graphics). The other is the bigger one: the fact that there is only English audio for an adventure game, like when I see that in a more high profile release I usually think "dear developers, you didn't do your job" considering that adventure games can depend a lot on good localization and are mostly made for the EU market. You know, at least do a German dub and when it comes to subtitles more than just EFIGS is always welcome.

 

I do agree that the Double Fine remasters are the best though since not only they are super faithful to the source material but DF seems to care about localization whenever they can. Grim Fandango has fully localized audio for 7 languages (EFIGS + Portuguese), that's just incredible, Full Throttle isn't that far behind (4 languages) and even DOTT has German. The only downside that comes to mind for DF is that their PC ports can be a bit wonky, thankfully that didn't affect their remasters at all as far as I can tell.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Zaxx

[Udvarnoky]

MI2:SE was definitely an across-the-board improvement, and the concept art gallery alone justifies its existence. However, classic mode has compromises (inaccurate MIDI playback, removed vertical scrolling effect) which I consider more than a nuisance in a world where the SEs are the only versions of the first two games sold. The original games are either represented or they or not. My feelings about the SEs would be a lot less conflicted if Lucasfilm would toss out vintage, as-is builds of the original release(s). It's much easier to accept the SEs as their own thing when they are available alongside what they are effectively replacing.

[s-island]

Yeah, not too happy about the SEs effectively replacing the originals. The most revolutionary part of MI2 was the dynamic music, and there's no official version out there with any of that intact. They couldn't even record the loops they did for classic mode correctly.

[Zaxx]

41 minutes ago, Udvarnoky said:

MI2:SE was definitely an across-the-board improvement, and the concept art gallery alone justifies its existence. However, classic mode has compromises (inaccurate MIDI playback, removed vertical scrolling effect) which I consider more than a nuisance in a world where the SEs are the only versions of the first two games sold. The original games are either represented or they or not. My feelings about the SEs would be a lot less conflicted if Lucasfilm would toss out vintage, as-is builds of the original release(s). It's much easier to accept the SEs as their own thing when they are available alongside what they are effectively replacing.

Yeah, I definitely agree with the classic modes not getting the right treatment. Though I can't help but wonder what kind of release we'd be looking at if Lucasfilm decided to release the classics digitally. Curse got a ScummVM dump which is the "not great, not terrible" way of re-releasing a classic game while Escape is just the old PC version with most compatibility issues intact.

 

The SEs are built on top of the original games though and you can extract those from the pak files in a form where ScummVM can run them. Which kinda begs the question why didn't they just include those files already being extracted anyway...

[elTee]

I almost think of the Monkey Island and Double Fine Special Editions as console ports. They're a reasonable option if you want to play the games in high definition on a TV with a playstation pad. But it is a crime that you can't get the original PC versions digitally! The originals are the best versions and if you're playing on PC those are the only real choice in my opinion. 

[Lagomorph01]

 

18 minutes ago, elTee said:

I almost think of the Monkey Island and Double Fine Special Editions as console ports. They're a reasonable option if you want to play the games in high definition on a TV with a playstation pad. But it is a crime that you can't get the original PC versions digitally! The originals are the best versions and if you're playing on PC those are the only real choice in my opinion. 

I disagree about the Grim Fandango and Full Throttle remasters. While I haven't played them on pc, so I'm not sure how they work with mouse controls, the audio quality alone for me is a reason to prefer them above the originals. To hear Ben's gravelly voice without the hiss in the background is just music to my ears, not to mention the music literally being music to my ears!

I'm not to keen on the Full Throttle visuals, but I can play it with the original graphics no problem. Day of the Tentacle was a close one, but the replacement of the tentacle suction cup sound effect is the one thing that breaks the experience for me. That original sound was just a part of their character.

[elTee]

21 minutes ago, Lagomorph01 said:

 

I disagree about the Grim Fandango and Full Throttle remasters.

 

Yeah, that's fair enough - I actually haven't played either of those on PC myself which is why I generalised in my post, but I understand Double Fine did a really comprehensive technical upgrade on their Special Editions so I shouldn't have lumped them in with the two that LucasArts did. There's also frankly an air of legitimacy with those re-releases that simply comes from Tim Schafer himself.

[Zaxx]

6 hours ago, Lagomorph01 said:

All in all, I think the team learned from the first SE, but it’s still not the respecting remaster Double Fine would make.

Eh, I never agreed with the notion that the SEs aren't faithful enough. I mean the statement is true, I just don't think that being faithful to the original was ever in the cards for those releases. They are very much remakes in that sense just for the reason of the added voice acting. Those new voices weren't there before and they come with some sort of reinterpretation for every single character, it's like what dubbing a silent movie would be. The graphics are in the same boat (the MI2 SE art I consider pretty faithful even with this though): they were very much made with the intention to add "missing" detail. So compared to something like me being bothered by a voice actor change in Sam & Max it's an overload of that to the point where I'm like "okay, these people don't look like how I remember and they definitely don't sound like how they did in my head, I might as well just sit back and enjoy the ride." I guess that's why I never installed the hair mod.

 

The DF remasters are pretty much the opposite, those games already had everything the remastered versions have and those new releases are just cleaned up versions of the original games. What's interesting though is that I think even that approach only worked for Grim and DOTT without fault while it resulted in some interesting scenes for Full Throttle. DOTT has a very specific, minimalist art style and the remaster only enhances that with its lack of detail in HD but for FT that's not true. They realized this to some extent and added details to the characters but the backgrounds and the "pre-rendered 3D" objects (like Ben's bike which looks very out of place in the remaster imo) still maintain their "lo-fi" looks so overall the game is just inconsistent. For example I just look at this screenshot with high detail Ben standing next to that barely recognizable oil can and it's a bit baffling:

And when it comes to the vistas basically all of those shots look like as if they were out of focus or washed out because when that stuff is blown up into HD you just start missing the detail that should be there but isn't. Overall I think they did a good job and I certainly enjoyed seeing the old 4:3 aspect ratio backgrounds extended to 16:9 but yeah, I'd choose the MI2 SE approach instead of what's in FTR every day of the week.

[Scummbuddy]

That "oil can" is actually an expandable/accordion gas carrier so it is not meant to look like a metal oil can. But I can see what you're talking about with the resolution of characters and objects to the background.

 

What I find more inexcusable is that green hose on the green background item right behind Ben there in that scene. I think it was an oversight during the conversion to the newer background.

 

But I absolutely love Full Throttle (original and SE).

[Groggoccino]

Hi everyone. Longtime visitor, checking in after all these years.

 

In addition to all the issues you have already discussed, there is an extremely subtle, almost conceptual reason which makes these recent(ish) remasters feel somewhat "off" to me. It applies to the two Monkey Island Special Editions, but also to the more faithful Double Fine remasters (less so with Grim Fandango, but still).

 

It's basically this: the original versions look and feel like state-of-the-art, early/mid 90's games (because that's exactly what they were). The remasters look and feel more like modest, 2009-2017 indie games (because that's kind of what they are).

 

Back then, these games were bona fide technical juggernauts. They have a very specific place in videogame history, and you can feel that even when playing them today. With these new-coat-of-paint-on-top-of-the-old-game remasters, however, they stop being products of their time and become something else. Their place in history is palpably different to that of the originals, and I think that colors the experience of playing them. Substantially so.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Groggoccino

[Zaxx]

4 hours ago, Scummbuddy said:

But I absolutely love Full Throttle (original and SE).

Yeah, me too except for those weird bike combat parts. I played the game a long time after it came out but I refuse to believe that those sections were considered to be good back in the day. I guess it could be considered impressive for the SCUMM engine but they are just so boring and annoying.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Zaxx

[ThunderPeel2001]

There's a new niggles in the Double Fine remasters that irk me to this day, but on the whole they're amazing. The Grim Fandango Remaster in particular is worth it for the new controls alone -- but add the massively improved music and WOW, it's more or less perfect. Schafer promised a "Criterion Edition" level remaster. He talked about getting the symbol on Velasco's cap correct, for example... That's extremely detailed. Except they didn't touch the texture on Velasco's cap. In fact they didn't touch quite a few textures.

 

And sometimes when they did change them, they added silly mistakes. They removed the originally intended numpad tank controls for some reason. And they also changed the beautiful transition before the end credits. Plus there's a few bugs (I have a list somewhere.) They also massively lowered the available number of save slots (due to a PS4 limitation, but contractually it had to be implemented on the PC version, too -- because the PC version couldn't be better than the PS version), which is unbearable for a huge game like Grim that you might want to explore.

 

Still, overall it was VAST improvement, and definitely the version everyone should play... just not quite Criterion Edition level.

 

Full Throttle also had some oddities introduced (some character designs were changed, some background animations were lost, and there were some strange choices during the animations). Plus the background on the road animations were altered so they didn't match the rest of the game. And whoever was in charge of uprezzing the fonts did not have a very good eye. Still, again, the improved music was worth the price of admission. Watching the intro sequence on my big TV with the music blaring in HD gave me goosebumps.

 

The Day of the Tentacle Remaster was probably the most faithful overall. Very nicely done, although I wish they didn't have music playing in the menus. It drove me insane after a while.

 

Of course all of this is just because I'm an uber fan. 99% of people will just enjoy the DF Remasters, and so they should. They're fantastic.

 

(But I still have dreams of modding them for to my own taste just to scratch that uber fan itch.)

Edited April 27, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[Lagomorph01]

5 hours ago, Groggoccino said:

Hi everyone. Longtime visitor, checking in after all these years.

 

In addition to all the issues you have already discussed, there is an extremely subtle, almost conceptual reason which makes these recent(ish) remasters feel somewhat "off" to me. It applies to the two Monkey Island Special Editions, but also to the more faithful Double Fine remasters (less so with Grim Fandango, but still).

 

It's basically this: the original versions look and feel like state-of-the-art, early/mid 90's games (because that's exactly what they were). The remasters look and feel more like modest, 2009-2017 indie games (because that's kind of what they are).

 

Back then, these games were bona fide technical juggernauts. They have a very specific place in videogame history, and you can feel that even when playing them today. With these new-coat-of-paint-on-top-of-the-old-game remasters, however, they stop being products of their time and become something else. Their place in history is palpably different to that of the originals, and I think that colors the experience of playing them. Substantially so.

Welcome back to the forums!

 

I think you’re right about that. I don’t really like the uprezzed graphics either, although the work Double Fine did on them is top notch.
I just love playing them with the old graphics but new sound. It’s such a thrill to hear these classic’s that I’ve always loved with the improved audio quality. It must’ve been a tough job finding all the right samples on tape, but it payed off perfectly! (Except for the suction cup effect which I mentioned earlier.)

[elTee]

5 hours ago, Groggoccino said:

Hi everyone. Longtime visitor, checking in after all these years.

 

In addition to all the issues you have already discussed, there is an extremely subtle, almost conceptual reason which makes these recent(ish) remasters feel somewhat "off" to me. It applies to the two Monkey Island Special Editions, but also to the more faithful Double Fine remasters (less so with Grim Fandango, but still).

 

It's basically this: the original versions look and feel like state-of-the-art, early/mid 90's games (because that's exactly what they were). The remasters look and feel more like modest, 2009-2017 indie games (because that's kind of what they are).

 

Back then, these games were bona fide technical juggernauts. They have a very specific place in videogame history, and you can feel that even when playing them today. With these new-coat-of-paint-on-top-of-the-old-game remasters, however, they stop being products of their time and become something else. Their place in history is palpably different to that of the originals, and I think that colors the experience of playing them. Substantially so.

 

Given that this a Loom thread, I must say I agree with this. Loom particularly has always struck me as absolutely state of the art for when it came out, from the astonishing dithered EGA art to the extraordinary level of detail put into the package. It does not look cheap or thrown together, it feels like the product of an enormously wealthy company throwing all of their resources at a project. None of the later games quite had that same feeling to me. 

[ThunderPeel2001]

It does make you wonder what a triple A adventure game would look like. But I think ZP summed it up correctly that the PC aspects and console aspects have merged. There are adventure game mechanics in mainstream action games now.