Return to Monkey Island

[madmardi]

9 hours ago, OzzieMonkey said:

This is actually pretty huge news...a count (or rough estimate) of the lines of dialog in the game!

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's this on par with TP? I believe Ron mentioned the number 14,000 in one of his blog posts..

[madmardi]

3 hours ago, Lagomorph01 said:

(Fun fact: after my last playthrough I've actually changed my favourite Monkey Island game to SOMI instead of MI2. Funny how time can still make me change my opinion on things.)

 

Yea, my ordering changed as well when I replayed them all recently. It's strange how your memory of each of the games doesn't quite match your experience when replay them again. Especially after 12 - 15 years.

 

Before Tales came out I used to order them as MI2, EFMI, COMI, MI1. This time through my favourite changed to EFMI.

[Lagomorph01]

16 minutes ago, madmardi said:

Before Tales came out I used to order them as MI2, EFMI, COMI, MI1. This time through my favourite changed to EFMI.

Whoa! You are actually the first person I know that likes EFMI the best! What makes you like it so much?

[madmardi]

13 minutes ago, Lagomorph01 said:

Whoa! You are actually the first person I know that likes EFMI the best! What makes you like it so much?

 

You know, from my perspective it was more "I loved that game!! Wait... why are there so many vocal people online that hate it so much?!"

 

First time through I just really enjoyed it - the story, humour, graphics, puzzles, music, ending - all of it. Nothing bothered me, and in many ways it seemed to be the next logical step from COMI. Sure, you can pick it apart if you want, but none of those things that kept coming up bothered me in the slightest. I had just played GF so the controls felt improved. I thought the ending was epic. And still don't know what people's problem with Monkey Kombat is (it's not really that hard to make a hexagon and write down the combinations - takes about the same amount of time as any of the insult sword fighting). I liked the 3D graphics with the 2D backgrounds. Honestly, I just think people don't like change (lots of evidence of that recently with the reaction to the graphics in RTMI).

 

Anyways, if you want I could pick things apart about each of the MI games. They aren't perfect, but they are still my favourite series of all time. I just strongly believe that EFMI is highly underrated and overhated. It really doesn't deserve the bashing it gets.

Edited May 31, 2022 by madmardi

[Scummbuddy]

I think there's a difference between "not liking change/growth" and "not expecting a game to divert from established canon and gameplay".

 

If ReMI has Insult Swordfighting but the gameplay is turn-based RPG fighting vs wordplay puzzles, there would be backlash. With Monkey Kombat, we lost the humorous wit and it devolved into "Ook Eek Ahh". Thrilling stuff I tell ya...

 

CMI and Full Throttle had ship battles and bike-fights but it was well part of the themes of the game (and could be skipped for those who didn't want to play them) but seeing a giant robotic monkey that came out of nowhere and contradicted the Monkey skeleton from the first game, now with Voltron vibes ( and where some monkeys can talk English all of the sudden??) was very off putting for me. Maybe if it was my first played game of the series I would be less of a nay-sayer, but it was too far of a step out of believable within the story and settings we've been shown up until that point.

[BillyCheers]

44 minutes ago, Scummbuddy said:

I think there's a difference between "not liking change/growth" and "not expecting a game to divert from established canon and gameplay".

 

If ReMI has Insult Swordfighting but the gameplay is turn-based RPG fighting vs wordplay puzzles, there would be backlash. With Monkey Kombat, we lost the humorous wit and it devolved into "Ook Eek Ahh". Thrilling stuff I tell ya...

 

CMI and Full Throttle had ship battles and bike-fights but it was well part of the themes of the game (and could be skipped for those who didn't want to play them) but seeing a giant robotic monkey that came out of nowhere and contradicted the Monkey skeleton from the first game, now with Voltron vibes ( and where some monkeys can talk English all of the sudden??) was very off putting for me. Maybe if it was my first played game of the series I would be less of a nay-sayer, but it was too far of a step out of believable within the story and settings we've been shown up until that point.

When I played it first, those things didn't bother me that much. I thought it was all just silly fun. But the more I was coming to love the old games, the lore and the story, the more they felt off to me. In the end it's not a bad game. It has some nice puzzles, funny dialogues and nice settings. But on the downside, it seems like the creators just always thought "Wouldn't it be funny/crazy, if...?", without thinking if it would make sense to the story.

 

On top of that, on my last playthrough I was really annoyed by the controls. Everything took SO long. Many actions that could be done with a few clicks in the old games, in EMI you had to navigate Guybrush for ages. It may have been an improvement to GF - but definitely not to the classic P&C adventures. And the 3D graphics haven't really aged well either, unfortunately. Many of the backgrounds (though not totally bad) look very empty and lifeless.

 

But still: not a bad game! Just not a very good Monkey Island game, in my opinion... 🙃

[Vainamoinen]

 

Oh come on, now he's just trolling. 😂

[Utwarrior]

3 minutes ago, Vainamoinen said:

 

Oh come on, now he's just trolling. 😂

Or maybe he recorded exactly that line today. 😉

[Vainamoinen]

18 minutes ago, Utwarrior said:

Or maybe he recorded exactly that line today. 😉

OR!

[demone]

I wonder if this is the last session then; it would make sense that they would want to make it the last bit to record.

 

I'm also relieved this basically confirms that the Secret will indeed be revealed in this game. I think it was generally assumed, but it's nice to have the reassurance. Starting the game by picking right back up where LeChuck's Revenge ended at the carnival and the Secret being revealed were literally the only things I was really hoping for with this game, even when it was only in a hypothetical state for decades. With both essentially confirmed, I'm more pumped than ever.

Edited June 1, 2022 by demone

[demone]

7 hours ago, BillyCheers said:

When I played it first, those things didn't bother me that much. I thought it was all just silly fun. But the more I was coming to love the old games, the lore and the story, the more they felt off to me. In the end it's not a bad game. It has some nice puzzles, funny dialogues and nice settings. But on the downside, it seems like the creators just always thought "Wouldn't it be funny/crazy, if...?", without thinking if it would make sense to the story.

 

On top of that, on my last playthrough I was really annoyed by the controls. Everything took SO long. Many actions that could be done with a few clicks in the old games, in EMI you had to navigate Guybrush for ages. It may have been an improvement to GF - but definitely not to the classic P&C adventures. And the 3D graphics haven't really aged well either, unfortunately. Many of the backgrounds (though not totally bad) look very empty and lifeless.

 

But still: not a bad game! Just not a very good Monkey Island game, in my opinion... 🙃

 

For me, I think the only real disdain I had for Escape from Monkey Island was, for so many years, it was the final Monkey Island game. It felt lacking in that regard for me with Guybrush being kicked off a cliff by Timmy the Monkey, who I hated because he is foisted onto players as if he was an established character. Even with Tales being the final game for an even longer period of time, Tales really felt like a grand finale from a character and story perspective with an epic final showdown and some genuine, heartfelt moments at the end that also reminded me of previous entries. With Escape not being the final game, but one in the middle, that disdain basically dissolved for me.

 

The only other thing I would say is that I think the game sorta missed the mark a little bit with Guybrush's character. While he was still funny, his edge was really lacking in the game. Guybrush is not really a badass, but he has these great moments of edge and wit that are perfectly captured in all the other games. He was basically degraded by every character over and over again in Escape to the point that he is kicked off a cliff and left calling for help.

 

Beyond that, I really enjoyed it and it has a certain charm that is unique to it. It's certainly unlike any of the other games in the series and while some use that as evidence that it's a bad Monkey Island game, I think the opposite and feel its unique charm is a selling point. It also has some of Dominic's best and funny lines in the entire series in my opinion. I love the banter between him and Jojo and his original MI crew. I also really loved Meathook's backstory as a painter; funny yet moving at the same time. Despite Herman's backstory being a mess, I did appreciate how the game tied up the Carnival of the Damned and the Caverns of Hell, as well as Elaine's governorship. 

 

The overall story is silly, but I also respect it for just going completely crazy by the end with a talking monkey, a giant monkey robot, and fighting in Monkey jabber. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by demone

[Scummbuddy]

I would like to mention that with all my disliking of the game, it does have some genuinely good parts to it. Voice acting, the music, the backgrounds, good humor, and some good puzzles... it was just lacking for me in most of the storyline where it was less of a pirate tale but half real estate shenanigans and half gubernatorial drama. We waited quite a while for another Monkey Island game only to get Guybrush acting as an arbitrator to intergalactic trade deals instead of being a cool Jedi. Or something..., I stopped paying attention when I had to bother to figure out what "gubernatorial" meant way back when I was still in school. But it kind of was Phantom Menace all over again. Sure there were cool parts of it (pod racing and those sweet Roger droids) but it lost its way.

 

Back on topic, I wouldn't really take all this Dominic and Ron teasing on Twitter as "The Secret is GOING to be revealed". I would definitely tamp your expectations. If it does, and it's satisfying, all the better. I'm assuming it won't be revealed, as to just add to the games allure, and I'm just looking for a good game and a good time. I believe I'm safe in expecting that.

[Lagomorph01]

2 hours ago, Scummbuddy said:

Back on topic, I wouldn't really take all this Dominic and Ron teasing on Twitter as "The Secret is GOING to be revealed". I would definitely tamp your expectations. If it does, and it's satisfying, all the better. I'm assuming it won't be revealed, as to just add to the games allure, and I'm just looking for a good game and a good time. I believe I'm safe in expecting that.

This. I wouldn’t get my hopes up too high either. I think that if they reveal the ‘secret’ they’ll probably make it a part of an even bigger secret that will leave us hanging for years to come, or it’ll be so ludicrous that we’ll all feel stupid for obsessing over it for so many years.

Just don’t expect Ron to tie everything up with a bow and you’ll be fine. 

[madmardi]

12 hours ago, BillyCheers said:

And the 3D graphics haven't really aged well either, unfortunately. Many of the backgrounds (though not totally bad) look very empty and lifeless.

 

 

Well, I have to disagree with this - I actually found that COMI had aged the most. MI1, MI2, and EFMI looked about as I remembered, but I was surprised by the low resolution of Curse. 

 

[madmardi]

13 hours ago, Scummbuddy said:

I think there's a difference between "not liking change/growth" and "not expecting a game to divert from established canon and gameplay".

 

Okay, I understand that point. But overall I really don't think it did divert that much. It's a new story, there's a new interface, but it's still a pirate adventure game.

[madmardi]

4 hours ago, Scummbuddy said:

Back on topic, I wouldn't really take all this Dominic and Ron teasing on Twitter as "The Secret is GOING to be revealed". I would definitely tamp your expectations. If it does, and it's satisfying, all the better. I'm assuming it won't be revealed, as to just add to the games allure, and I'm just looking for a good game and a good time. I believe I'm safe in expecting that.

 

And yes, going back on topic, I think the safest bet is to lower any and all expectations. Unfortunately after 30 years there's so much potential for people to be disappointed...

[BillyCheers]

I don't think it's thaaat off topic. It's interesting to talk about the different games and what you liked or disliked about them in terms of "Return".

 

At EMI, they just went too far with the references to modern times for me. It almost seemed like a spoof game: a whole story about Real estates with a Murdorch villain, all the brands that came up as references (Starbuck's), a LeChuck church (wtf?!), Monkey Kombat, a giant robot monkey like Godzilla or something, etc.
While we had a great pirate story in MI1, 2 and 3, with some charming references here and there, EMI relied way too heavily on that for me. The balance was lacking. And this has nothing to do with "change" but with consistency...
Tales, on the other hand, had fantastic storytelling (albeit a somewhat strange basic story with the Pox) that none of the other games could match for me.

In the end, everyone has their own expectations for a Monkey Island. For my part, I'm at least curious to see if Ron is able to reproduce that very special mix of 1 and 2 back, for which I like them the most. 

 

And as for the 3D graphics, maybe that's a matter of taste too. But although the backgrounds and sprites in CMI aren't HD, they are super very well done and feel much more finished to me. In EMI, many cutscenes and some backgrounds were just sloppy (probably due to time pressure) and Tales unfortunately suffered from the engine and the possibilities, I would say - although they really got the best out of it, especially in the last episodes! I'm definitely glad we're getting 2D again in RMI - looks the nicest (as long as you don't have Rockstar or Ubisoft behind it) and somehow makes the most sense for an adventure game to me.

[Marius]

Oh man, if the game is about revealing the secret, I hope it focuses on Guybrush and what it means to him. I think his reaction and relationship to it is key. I agree that there can‘t be any twist that would surprise us/the player in a meaningful way. It should be a twist for Guybrush first.

Also it would be cool to reveal the secret at the beginning of the game, not at the end! So that we can spend as much time as possible with Guybrush dealing with it.

[BillyCheers]

13 minutes ago, Marius said:

Oh man, if the game is about revealing the secret, I hope it focuses on Guybrush and what it means to him. I think his reaction and relationship to it is key. I agree that there can‘t be any twist that would surprise us/the player in a meaningful way. It should be a twist for Guybrush first.

Also it would be cool to reveal the secret at the beginning of the game, not at the end! So that we can spend as much time as possible with Guybrush dealing with it.

That's a really good point/idea! Never thought about revealing the secret at the beginning or at least very early. And I am on your side: The secret should have more of an emotional impact than a sensational one. I'd like to see Guybrush really  broken at some time – and maybe then get it all back together by the end. 

[Vainamoinen]

34 minutes ago, Marius said:

Oh man, if the game is about revealing the secret, I hope it focuses on Guybrush and what it means to him. I think his reaction and relationship to it is key. I agree that there can‘t be any twist that would surprise us/the player in a meaningful way. It should be a twist for Guybrush first.

Also it would be cool to reveal the secret at the beginning of the game, not at the end! So that we can spend as much time as possible with Guybrush dealing with it.

 

This is so important. And I'm pretty sure that's where we're heading! With LeChuck's Revenge, Ron has been dripping the personal on the character already. Suddenly he was a person with a mom and a dad, possibly even a brother. Who has tried but failed to practise playing the piano. Starting with Curse, Guybrush has become more of a projection figure / wish fulfilment for the player again, more of a blank slate, suddenly of slim build and possibly even handsome. I'd love for the question Who even is that guy(brush)? to come into focus again. Have Ron and Dave answer questions about the character that really only they should be allowed to answer.

[madmardi]

1 hour ago, BillyCheers said:

At EMI, they just went too far with the references to modern times for me. It almost seemed like a spoof game: a whole story about Real estates with a Murdorch villain, all the brands that came up as references (Starbuck's), a LeChuck church (wtf?!), Monkey Kombat, a giant robot monkey like Godzilla or something, etc.
While we had a great pirate story in MI1, 2 and 3, with some charming references here and there, EMI relied way too heavily on that for me. The balance was lacking. And this has nothing to do with "change" but with consistency...

 

Hmm... I've heard this point before and the references to modern times are more than before, I'll give you that. However, it really doesn't seem inconsistent to me as those references started in MI1. The grog machine, references to tourism on Meathook's island, the PTA minutes, the door to the cannibal's hut that eventually turned into a beeping computerized door... there's a bunch others that I'm forgetting at the moment, but far as I'm concerned the MI games never did take themselves that seriously and those "charming references here and there" were actually pretty prevalent. Anyways, it is about balance, so I guess the balance for you wasn't right, but for me it wasn't anything concerning.

 

Now would I want more of those references than in EFMI? Probably not. But it didn't cross the line for me.

[BillyCheers]

Yeah, maybe you're right. I can't put my finger on it, but to me the references always felt more "noticeable" or "on the nose" in EMI (balance?). Although you're not wrong: There are many references in the other games too and they even also play a big role in the story (root beer). Hmhm, let's see what they cook up for RMI. 🙂

Edited June 1, 2022 by BillyCheers

[madmardi]

2 hours ago, Marius said:

Oh man, if the game is about revealing the secret, I hope it focuses on Guybrush and what it means to him. I think his reaction and relationship to it is key. I agree that there can‘t be any twist that would surprise us/the player in a meaningful way. It should be a twist for Guybrush first.

Also it would be cool to reveal the secret at the beginning of the game, not at the end! So that we can spend as much time as possible with Guybrush dealing with it.

 

Sooo... am I the only one that played through MI1 thinking that the "secret" was just that there was a whole system of catacombs beneath the monkey head, which led to LeChuck's secret hideout?

 

I thought Monkey Island hiding LeChuck's lair was a big enough secret, and never thought to look for something more... That is until I went online ~5 years later and saw everyone obsessing over what they thought was the REAL Secret of Monkey Island.

[MPinillos]

Hey, what if the ghost pirate shown in the trailer is Morgan LeFlay?

Let's remember the after credits scene of ToMI...

 

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by MPinillos

[BillyCheers]

2 minutes ago, madmardi said:

 

Sooo... am I the only one that played through MI1 thinking that the "secret" was just that there was a whole system of catacombs beneath the monkey head, which led to LeChuck's secret hideout?

 

I thought Monkey Island hiding LeChuck's lair was a big enough secret, and never thought to look for something more... That is until I went online ~5 years later and saw everyone obsessing over what they thought was the REAL Secret of Monkey Island.

If I had only played MI1, I’d have thought so, too. But in CMI (the one I played first) and even in MI2 the question gets asked a few times by the game.

I wonder if others asked themselves this question after playing MI1 first… 🤔