Return to Monkey Island

[TimeGentleman]

12 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

The game starts directly after MI2 and doesn't negate CMI, so the obvious solution (which I hope Ron is doing) is to simply explain what happened between Guybrush being a kid and ending up in a sea worthy bumper car. (And maybe he can explain how Guybrush became so phobic of porcelain in the process.)

 

I think, considering how fiddly it would be to literally start directly after the ending of MI2 while also keeping COMI in canon and having Murray in the game, we should bear in mind that it's possible that Devolver tweet only meant it is picking up thematically/authorially rather than continuity-wise. It's just one early tweet from a PR person, it might not be super-accurate. I wish they and Ron had foreseen some of these questions and pre-emptively organised their communication so we weren't all so confused, but equally it would behove us to remember that pre-release info can often be misleading or subject to change, and therefore not take anything as gospel until the game is in our hands.
 

Personally, I feel like Ron's preference will be to take the least fiddly approach possible, he doesn't seem like one to start creating big tangled plots just to justify canon. I think he'll keep all the sequels in canon but feel free to mostly ignore without contradicting them, while including Murray and whatever else he finds useful/appropriate to the story he's telling, and go back to the themes and events he's interested in.

Edited April 8, 2022 by TimeGentleman

[Goury1]

7 minutes ago, Kroms said:

Between MI's anachronisms and MI2's ending, it's not like in-universe reality isn't haphazard anyway.

 I think, you are on to something here! Ron Gilbert mentioned once that there are things in the first two games that we took as jokes, yet they weren't actually jokes.  Stuff like the grog machine in MI1 or the elevator to Melee Island  in MI2 come to mind...  Or there was this troll in MI1 who actually was a man in a costume... I have a hunch that all the anachronisms and weird things are the key to understanding what is actually going on in the Monkey Island world...

[Rum Rogers]

4 minutes ago, Goury1 said:

Or there was this troll in MI1 who actually was a man in a costume...

That man was George Lucas!

[Goury1]

Just now, Rum Rogers said:

That man was George Lucas!

Really? Wow!!

[TimeGentleman]

I've seen @Jake say that in the original that wasn't supposed to be Lucas, but I'm not sure if he ever retrieved his source for that...

[Kroms]

51 minutes ago, Goury1 said:

 I think, you are on to something here! Ron Gilbert mentioned once that there are things in the first two games that we took as jokes, yet they weren't actually jokes.  Stuff like the grog machine in MI1 or the elevator to Melee Island  in MI2 come to mind...  Or there was this troll in MI1 who actually was a man in a costume... I have a hunch that all the anachronisms and weird things are the key to understanding what is actually going on in the Monkey Island world...

Fair, but I think most of it is just servicing the games themselves without any grand plan. It doesn't have to be explained. Maybe it's a child's imagination. Maybe not. Hell, the answer might have changed between 1991 and now. It's not terribly important. My one hope is it's a good game, and I'd rather have no explanation than a poor one. I think people are oggling for the wrong game, anyway, but what do I know?

[ThunderPeel2001]

1 hour ago, TimeGentleman said:

 

I wish they and Ron had foreseen some of these questions and pre-emptively organised their communication so we weren't all so confused

 

Ron likes it when we're all confused...

 

I agree with others who have said that a multiverse solution would feel lazy right now. I forgave Marvel because they did it so well, and there's a long history with Spider-Man having lots of different universes, but just throwing it into MI because it's easy or "different" would be disappointing.

 

I know Ron loves how upset everyone was at MI2's ending, you have to remember that 99% of the series wasn't that ending. It was a largely straightforward piratey adventure... and that's the thing we love. I hope he doesn't sacrifice characters and story trying to outdo himself on the weirdness front.

 

Also despite what anyone says, there's a million easy ways to bring Murray into the narrative and still set the game before COMI. It's not a tricky narrative problem to solve at all. Your favourite TV shows and films do this sort of retcon all the time. ("Darth Vader killed your father... I mean he IS your father.")  

Some quick and easy solutions:
 

• Guybrush bangs his head, affecting his memories (despite this sounding lazy, it actually would allow for the whole of CMI to be reframed in an incredibly interesting way -- this is literally what Planescape Torment did and it's considered one of the best written narratives in gaming history -- it also featured a talking skull that pretends it's never met the protagonist for an interesting narrative reason). 
• Voodoo. Did anyone forget that we have spells in this universe? Curses, enchantments,  magical amulets... pick one and apply to your story as needed. 
• This one is harder: Guybrush and Murray never actually cross paths (maybe we play as Elaine in parts of RMI and she's the one who gets pestered by him).
• Personality: You do the whole Lois Lane/Clark Kent thing. Guybrush is just annoyed by Murray the whole time and refuses to acknowledge him.

 

There are SO many ways to make a direct sequel to MI2 that is set before CMI and features Murray. However that doesn't mean that's what Ron has chosen to do...

Edited April 8, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[Kroms]

Alternatively, simply set it after CMI.

[MurraySchull]

Not sure if it's been brought up in this thread yet, but Alexandra Boyd has been confirmed to return as Elaine. And, in a more surprising announcement, Rob Paulsen is returning as the lookout of Melee Island! A very unexpected twist since the lookout is a character that hasn't been seen since MI1.

 

That, to me, means two things. 1. We're definitely going back to Melee Island in some capacity (the website background art alone confirmed this) .  And 2. This emphasizes, to me, that the story will be coming full circle in some way, and when we play the game, it will truly feel like the third and final part of Ron's vision.

 

Appreciate it's still early days, but nobody has answered the question about Earl Boen yet. The thing is, he'd be completely within his rights to turn it down at this stage. He's long retired at this point, and just turned eighty last year. But at the same time, something will really be missing if we don't have a LeChuck performance that has the spark that Earl had. Really hoping for one last hurrah (or "HURRARGHHHH!!!") out of him but I don't know if it's something we can count on.


Also somebody mentioned a while back if the success of this game could mean more sequels? Honestly, I think after this, in terms of new entries to the series, we'll be done. It's similar in some ways to Bill & Ted 3. It took forever to happen, then finally it happened after thirty or so years while the old team were still around, and able, to make it happen. Who knows how long certain members of the Monkey Island team/talent will be with us. Maybe we won't be so lucky as to have the whole team within another 5-10 years. It'll happen now while it's able to happen with the right people, and a 30 year waiting game for "the real MI3" will be over at last. If "Ron's MI4" was never something on his mind in 30 years, I doubt it's something he'd miraculously come up with now.

A remaster/rerelease of the other MI games on modern consoles, however? I think that's increasingly more likely.

[ThunderPeel2001]

1 hour ago, Kroms said:

Alternatively, simply set it after CMI.

 

Or after MI4 or after Tales. This conversation was all in reference to Devolver Tweeting that RMI "picks up where Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge left off". Ben made the point that they might have meant thematically, and Goury said it was impossible to have a game set after MI2 and before CMI AND include Murray. So I was explaining how it's actually very possible to have both things IF Devolver's Tweet meant it literally.

 

Random thought: Is Tim prevented from participating because of his studio's deal with Microsoft? I mean they basically bought DF in order to have exclusive Tim content on XBox. He can't really moonlight for someone else.

Edited April 8, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[Lagomorph01]

1 hour ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Some quick and easy solutions:
 

• Guybrush bangs his head, affecting his memories (despite this sounding lazy, it actually would allow for the whole of CMI to be reframed in an incredibly interesting way -- this is literally what Planescape Torment did and it's considered one of the best written narratives in gaming history -- it also featured a talking skull that pretends it's never met the protagonist for an interesting narrative reason). 
• Voodoo. Did anyone forget that we have spells in this universe? Curses, enchantments,  magical amulets... pick one and apply to your story as needed. 
• This one is harder: Guybrush and Murray never actually cross paths (maybe we play as Elaine in parts of RMI and she's the one who gets pestered by him).
• Personality: You do the whole Lois Lane/Clark Kent thing. Guybrush is just annoyed by Murray the whole time and refuses to acknowledge him.

 

Maybe they’ll pull a Lazy Lucas.

”Have the droid’s memory erased.”

[OzzieMonkey]

19 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

Random thought: Is Tim prevented from participating because of his studio's deal with Microsoft? I mean they basically bought DF in order to have exclusive Tim content on XBox. He can't really moonlight for someone else. 

If I'm following the timeline correctly, Microsoft didn't buy Double Fine until Ron was already into development so it's possible Tim could be involved on some level but he's not a core designer. I could see him being asked to write a bit of dialog for characters that were his to write for originally, but that's probably about it.

[TimeGentleman]

I'd argue that the lazy bit was bringing those droids back instead of inventing new characters, rather than taking the only logical step of having Threepio's memory wiped

 

1 hour ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

There are SO many ways to make a direct sequel to MI2 that is set before CMI and features Murray. However that doesn't mean that's what Ron has chosen to do...

 

Yep, totally agreed!

 

Re. Tim's involvement, I have no real idea of course, but I suspect that he wouldn't sign up for a contract so rigid it wouldn't allow him to  at least informally consult on outside stuff but that's all he'll have time for on RTMI. Much like his chat with Ron in the early stages of Broken Age, I imagine it quite likely that Ron has talked with him about ideas for the game and the state of releasing modern adventures but that it hasn't gone beyond that.

[TimeGentleman]

47 minutes ago, fentongames said:

Rob Paulsen is returning as the lookout of Melee Island!

 

That, to me, means two things. 1. We're definitely going back to Melee Island in some capacity (the website background art alone confirmed this)

 

Another case in point here for making assumptions on promotional material: just because the lookout is returning, doesn't mean we'll be going back to Melee Island. He could show up elsewhere, like Herman did in MI2. And perhaps they chose Melee Island for the website because it's iconic, even though it's not in RTMI. Will there be a fiddle-playing ghost pirate? Or any ghost pirates? Perhaps not.

 

I'm not saying they won't go back to Melee, just that I don't think we should take it as definite they are until they unambiguously tell us so (and even then bear in mind perhaps it's a five minute segment that will get cut before release!).

[Goury1]

59 minutes ago, fentongames said:

Also somebody mentioned a while back if the success of this game could mean more sequels? Honestly, I think after this, in terms of new entries to the series, we'll be done. 

 

 Yes, I would like RTMI to be the last entry to the series with final conclusion and the true secret of Monkey Island revealed. Unless Ron himself will want to make more at some point. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Goury1

[Rum Rogers]

28 minutes ago, TimeGentleman said:

Another case in point here for making assumptions on promotional material: just because the lookout is returning, doesn't mean we'll be going back to Melee Island. He could show up elsewhere, like Herman did in MI2.

It could also mean we get "Meanwhile..." cutscenes occurring in Melee but never really get there as players. Endless possibilities here.

[Goury1]

13 minutes ago, Rum Rogers said:

It could also mean we get "Meanwhile..." cutscenes occurring in Melee but never really get there as players. Endless possibilities here.

 

There is the elevator to Melee in the tunels, remember?  So I imagine that we would start at the Carnaval, and then come back to Melee via the elevator.

[Jake]

4 hours ago, TimeGentleman said:

I've seen @Jake say that in the original that wasn't supposed to be Lucas, but I'm not sure if he ever retrieved his source for that...

I can’t recall the interview that’s from but I asked some of the other Mojo folks and they backed me up. To my memory it was a random pirate who ended up looking George-like, then that rumor started and was canonized in the Special Edition… but again, I can’t remember the source of this story. 

[Romão]

Ron did mention years ago that he would make the source code available for anyone who would want to make fan games. Things might have changed, but if that does turn out to be true, we could be looking forward to a future with awesome fan games, even if this one indeed turns out to be the last Monkey island game

[CalisDraws]

39 minutes ago, Romão said:

Ron did mention years ago that he would make the source code available for anyone who would want to make fan games. Things might have changed, but if that does turn out to be true, we could be looking forward to a future with awesome fan games, even if this one indeed turns out to be the last Monkey island game

 

I would be extremely open to this being the last official monkey island and entering an age of fan games!!

 

Having only recently gotten into point and click games a year ago, I've really really started to think about maybe making a fan game myself at some point once I'm out of games to play so I can easily imagine a lot of people may have had that same itch over the long wait for a new MI game.

[Jake]

The Thimbleweed Park Delores source is available already!

[Asterothe]

46 minutes ago, CalisDraws said:

 

I would be extremely open to this being the last official monkey island and entering an age of fan games!!

 

Having only recently gotten into point and click games a year ago, I've really really started to think about maybe making a fan game myself at some point once I'm out of games to play so I can easily imagine a lot of people may have had that same itch over the long wait for a new MI game.

This might not hold (Ron letting us do MI games)  since Disney still owns its rights it seems. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Asterothe

[Udvarnoky]

3 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Or after MI4 or after Tales. This

Random thought: Is Tim prevented from participating because of his studio's deal with Microsoft? I mean they basically bought DF in order to have exclusive Tim content on XBox. He can't really moonlight for someone else.

 

I would guess it's less to do with some sort of lien on Tim than it is the simple fact that running a game studio is a full time responsibility. Dave on the other hand has spent much of his career as a contractor, so it would take fewer stars aligning for him to be able to participate.

[Lagomorph01]

1 hour ago, CalisDraws said:

 

I would be extremely open to this being the last official monkey island and entering an age of fan games!!

 

Having only recently gotten into point and click games a year ago, I've really really started to think about maybe making a fan game myself at some point once I'm out of games to play so I can easily imagine a lot of people may have had that same itch over the long wait for a new MI game.

Watch out what you say online, if you keep this up the Disney lawyers will cease and desist you quicker than you can say fan ga…

[Rum Rogers]

3 hours ago, Goury1 said:

 

There is the elevator to Melee in the tunels, remember?  So I imagine that we would start at the Carnaval, and then come back to Melee via the elevator.

Yeah I was just replying to the "you might never actually visit Melee island in RtMI" theory, which could also be correct although I obviously hope not!