Return to Monkey Island

[Garystu]

Looking forward to tricking Stan out of all his Nonkey Friends Tokens.

[Jayel]

Inventory combination, I could take it or leave it. I guess those puzzles are kind of like "skill check" because when you have a dozen or more items in your inventory, combinatorial explosion of possibilities make it difficult to solve accidentally, so the player really has to understand what they're trying to accomplish...

but at the same I don't want to get stuck then waste hours combining everything with every other thing, or deal with frustrating limitations (eg "why can I combine nail and hammer but not nail and rock?"). I have enough faith in designers involved in ReMI so that I don't foresee it being an issue, but I doubt the game will be any lesser without it.

[tmetic]

Hi all. I'm new to this site but just want to say how pleased I am to have found it. It's such a relief to find somewhere on the internet full of thoughtful, interesting discussion about the new game. I think I'm going to like it here.

[Remi]

On 7/2/2022 at 10:25 AM, Thrik said:

Remi’s eagle eyes strike again.

 

 

 

Sadly, Ron shot me down.

 

 

[Marius]

An very tiny detail that excited me the first time I saw it. When Murray lands on that other ship, we can see him jump up and down from a distance. And this far away, his animation looks kinda oldschool pixel arty, you know, as if the animator had to deal with a low resolution. Do you know what I mean? See the gif below.
(Sorry for posting my twitter thread. I couldn't figure out how to make that GIF small enough for the forum )

 

 

[Knight Owl]

On 7/3/2022 at 8:08 AM, Vainamoinen said:

 

Hmmmmm, let me mull that over.

 

Stan is imprisoned on Melee Island (the cell even has traces of the beverage that Guybrush once poured over the lock). The court would indeed be over on Brr Muda from what we know. But Brr Muda is a monarchy, it has the King of Keys.

All the talk of keys reminds me of a thimbleweed park blog post where Ron mentioned that all point and click puzzles can essentially be thought of as doors and keys.

 

https://blog.thimbleweedpark.com/act1issues.html

perhaps Ron is taking that more literally in this game and it’ll tie thematically into the story

 

[VoodooFrog]

Not seen this posted yet, but here's a petition that exists for no other reason than to show the team our appreciation:
https://www.change.org/p/just-some-love-for-ron-gilbert-and-return-to-monkey-island?redirect=false

[KestrelPi]

1 hour ago, VoodooFrog said:

Not seen this posted yet, but here's a petition that exists for no other reason than to show the team our appreciation:
https://www.change.org/p/just-some-love-for-ron-gilbert-and-return-to-monkey-island?redirect=false

It's cool this exists, but weird to me that Rex's name isn't mentioned anywhere. After all, Ron might be frustrated by this, but it's Rex who put all the love and care into that art style.

[Vainamoinen]

In some German forum that I'll definitely frequent much less in the future, I've seen this petition badmouthed as the work of "children" that are somehow on the same level as the "children" that put hateful content in the commentary section of Ron's blog.

 

The execution may be a bit raw, the 'petition' idea a bit silly, the English a bit crude and the focus a bit wrong as Kestrel has noted, but it still is a push in the right direction, an organized spearhead of positive emotion.

 

I don't think I'll sign it for now, but I think it's absolutely all right that it exists.

[OzzieMonkey]

I can't believe it's already been a week since the trailer! Already I'm (not-so) patiently awaiting the next bit of news, but I guess that won't be until the next official posting with a release date now that Ron's been (rightfully) scared off posting about the game. Atm I suspect a date by the time Gamescom rolls around, but who knows? The whole marketing campaign had been all over the place 😜 

 

Now if we can get away from the art style/mean comments discussion, let's talk about the characters.

 

What do we think the Voodoo Lady will be doing? Normally she's Guybrush's quest-giver, but will the dynamic be different coming off the reveals in Tales? Will that aspect of her character even be acknowledged? I hope it does, it'd be a shame to see the character in a post-Tales world where she's regressed to being unambiguously on our side again, the twist shook things up and made her more interesting, I'd hate to lose that. 

 

Will Otis join our crew again? Or will he stay in jail? I wonder what flowers he picked to end up there.

 

Carla is back, and perhaps the new Governor? Or taking up the Sheriff Shinetop role: will we see more of the mansion this time around? I kinda hope all the swordfighting isn't just insults, I trust that Ron and Dave have cooked up something more interesting that just another grind that fans of the old games already know how to solve: perhaps the "reactive dialog trees" whatever they are, have something to do with that? Or there's an action component? Don't know how I feel about that, the action sequences of the old SCUMM games always felt a little half-baked. 

 

Wally's back! I've wanted to see him again for so long, and he looks so happy! Even got a bit of stubble too, this is definitely dealing with older characters, I'm so excited to see how we get there from MI2's ending. It's been pointed out that after he spins the globe, the ground appears to shake in every scene shown afterwards. Clever trailer editing or a sign that he has some kind of magic control over the other islands? 

 

I'm very keen to see Murray again with Ron's writing (assuming Dave's not the one writing for him). Seeing him being used as a cannonball in the trailer was hilarious. Looks like he'll be part of our crew for a good portion of it too...on the Screaming Narwhal? I'm not convinced that ship is back yet as I'd have to have a better look at it, but that'd be great.

Edited July 5, 2022 by OzzieMonkey

[KestrelPi]

Finished replay of Tales last night so final thoughts about that:

 

* As I said at the start, difficulty level is fine.

 

* I remember liking the last episode more last time I played it. This time I found myself frustrated by the puzzle structure - so much backtracking between locations. I ended up reaching for a walk through sometimes not because it was too hard but the traversing between locations was getting irritating.

 

* I do think the idea that Elaine planned this whole outcome is silly in hindsight

 

* I kind of liked the end bit last time, but now I'm a bit more sceptical of marriage as an institution and it feels a bit weird to me that's the answer even if it's a clever bit

 

* I'm not sure whether Galeb is oddly written or oddly performed. It feels like they were trying something with the character but I'm not quite sure it entirely came off

 

* Don't mean to sound negative mind, I still  generally enjoyed the season but this time it peaked for me at 4 and dipped a bit at the end

 

Not a bad note to leave the series on had there been no more, but my mainvhope in Return is that we see a shift back towards a bit of a less silly, whimsical Guybrush and more of the understatedness I remember from the first few games

 

 

[tmetic]

3 hours ago, OzzieMonkey said:

Carla is back, and perhaps the new Governor? Or taking up the Sheriff Shinetop role: will we see more of the mansion this time around? 

 

I'm really curious about Carla's role. Did she become governor after Elaine, only to have to deal with the new leaders taking over? Or is she on their side, acting as their bodyguard? Or is she leading her own revolution in response to them? Hmm.

[OzzieMonkey]

4 minutes ago, tmetic said:

 

I'm really curious about Carla's role. Did she become governor after Elaine, only to have to deal with the new leaders taking over? Or is she on their side, acting as their bodyguard? Or is she leading her own revolution in response to them? Hmm.

Wow, I didn't think of the revolution idea! That'd be neat!

[Vainamoinen]

10 hours ago, OzzieMonkey said:

Now if we can get away from the art style/mean comments discussion, let's talk about the characters.

 

• The Tales' "reveals" about the Voodoo Lady were part of LeChuck's plot (badmouthing her, destroy trust), so I don't think we'll have them verified in Return. The Voodoo Lady is always scheming, that's her thing. Her voodoo was always an uncontested power of good with the exception of a voodoo doll now and then on LeChuck's side. I think the Very Important Pirates will try their hand at voodoo and might act as the very first antagonists to the Voodoo Lady directly.
• I also like the idea that Carla has retreated into the governor's mansion, fighting the invasion of the Brr Muda / Key King's forces. I wouldn't like to see her as an antagonist really, maybe she's just fighting Guybrush for old times' sake. Or practice to show him the (new) ropes, become his teacher. Ohhh I'd like that. Taking the reins from Smirk.
• We don't really need the swordfighting insult paradigm back for fencing sequences to be more brainy than mashing some button or two. We see several instances of protagonists fencing some opponent in the trailer (Guybrush vs. Swordmaster, Guybrush vs. LeChuck, Elaine vs. Mystery Pirate Lady with square collar), so it's a given that there will be some form of repetitive mechanic tied to swordfighting. We're being shown a fencing animation while there's some clever other thing you're doing that decides who wins. Which really could be anything.
• We've been discussing the "collect your crew" trope before and the consensus (more or less) was that it has become a trope / necessity / stereotype / meme in the Monkey Island series only with Curse, the game that first repeated the TSoMI-era puzzle. If Ron's not into repetition here, that would be appreciated.
• It's not just that Wally is back that excites me. He's a mapmaker again and I love maps! Making him a wannabe pirate like Guybrush was a bad idea. I also don't want him to have any magical powers, making maps is magically enough. It's a literal superpower that far surpasses voodoo and only Wally possesses it.
• The Screaming Narwhal wasn't a bad ship. It was in fact a very good ship, it just had a lot of recycled and repurposed parts. Whatever Guybrush's on for ReMI is rock bottom. This thing has its steering wheel literally tied to its bow with ropes. I'm not even sure it's a complete ship ( ... the wheel is usually at the stern 🤣). Maybe it doesn't even have a sail.
• Ron writes the grumpy characters. Murray is a very grumpy character. I think I can do the math.
  
   

Edited July 5, 2022 by Vainamoinen

[OzzieMonkey]

50 minutes ago, Vainamoinen said:

 

• Ron writes the grumpy characters. Murray is a very grumpy character. I think I can do the math.
  
   

I never saw Murray as grumpy, more enthusiastic at the prospect of world domination yet frustrated at not quite reaching his goals, but not grumpy. Well, maybe a little in Escape, being a bouncer clearly took its toll on him. 

[OzzieMonkey]

Another tantalising Tweet about a bug:

 

It made me realise: if this pertains to a scene with Guybrush Elaine, it will mark the first time they have ever kissed in the series. Maybe Elaine's line of "not here where everyone can see us" includes the player  

[KestrelPi]

7 hours ago, OzzieMonkey said:

Another tantalising Tweet about a bug:

 

It made me realise: if this pertains to a scene with Guybrush Elaine, it will mark the first time they have ever kissed in the series. Maybe Elaine's line of "not here where everyone can see us" includes the player  

 

Hmm, the first thing that came to my mind was a puzzle in which two people have slingshots, fired at the same time, and the projectiles meeting in mid air. I recall one or two puzzles like that in Tales with cannons.

[Vainamoinen]

10 hours ago, OzzieMonkey said:

It made me realise: if this pertains to a scene with Guybrush Elaine, it will mark the first time they have ever kissed in the series. Maybe Elaine's line of "not here where everyone can see us" includes the player  

And now you'll have to explain to us what "slingshot kissing" is. These kinky dudes! 😘

 

I actually interpreted "kissing" as the sound that the slingshot makes. I can hear what it possibly refers to rather distinctly in my head, and am now in the involuntary process of continuously reproducing the sound with my mouth. My co-workers are looking at me funny, and it's all Dave's fault.

 

On the prospect of Elaine and Guybrush kissing "for realz"

 

Ron Gilbert is back at the helm, and just about the only thing he felt was totally wrong in CMI was that Guybrush and Elaine were married. They had grown distant in LeChuck's Revenge, and it was Guybrush who demolished any chance of them reuniting. Elaine deciding to go into conservation, that also seems to hint at her being "her own woman". But I wouldn't say "fat chance" to the expression of love, because that's a theme that the Guybrush-narrator in the trailer explicitly mentioned. There's love in this. And even gameplay with Elaine as a playable character.

 

If we're lucky, LeChuck's Revenge has shown to us what separates them and Return to Monkey Island will show us what unites them.

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Vainamoinen

[Lagomorph01]

I wouldn't put it past Ron to have a reason for them to have drifted apart in the years after TMI. If I remember right, they were pretty much a power couple in that game. But I can imagine Elaine feeling less fulfilled with the passing of 10+ years of Guybrush repeating his heroïc endeavours. Maybe they've drifted apart and have both gone on their seperate adventures, only to find each other again in the way Ron orginally envisioned? It might be able to work.

 

Anyhow, I hope it's not too force fed into the story. The characters have evolved since MI2, even though it hasn't always been consistently. It'd be weird to just return to the way MI2 left them.

[Lagomorph01]

I just noticed that the shot of the skull flying out of the canon is not Murray. Maybe LeChuck is using the debris of his army from CMI as canon fodder now?

[Marius]

35 minutes ago, Lagomorph01 said:

I just noticed that the shot of the skull flying out of the canon is not Murray. Maybe LeChuck is using the debris of his army from CMI as canon fodder now?

I bet it’s Murray. I would make the same face if my skull gets blasted out of a cannon. (I think it’s cartoon logic and he looks normal after the shot)

[Remi]

52 minutes ago, Lagomorph01 said:

I just noticed that the shot of the skull flying out of the canon is not Murray. Maybe LeChuck is using the debris of his army from CMI as canon fodder now?

 

I'm curious why you don't think it's Murray? You must be seeing something I don't -- a common occurrence with my aging eyes.

[KestrelPi]

38 minutes ago, Marius said:

I bet it’s Murray. I would make the same face if my skull gets blasted out of a cannon. (I think it’s cartoon logic and he looks normal after the shot)

Yeah, or alternatively they just had a generic skull that was easier to use for some reason and the shot is so quick that it would read as Murray anyway.

[Scummbuddy]

CLEARLY it is LeChuck's skull still flying from the end of Monkey Island 1.

 

It's like you guys aren't even fans of the games.

[Marius]

It’s a duck!