Rogue Nine Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Originally posted by -s/<itzo- The same message can be convey in today's films, literature, etc... but i don't see you guys going against that. We all have to remember that hip hop and rap are intended for entertainment listening. And nowadays sex & violence is what sells. It's mainstream so you can't blame the artist for trying to sell music that the consumers want. When thinking about the impact upon kids, not all works of art are meant for all audience ages. It is up to parents and guardians to monitor the enviornment of their children. So you're saying we should blame the parents of these kids, not the artists themselves. Yes, they're only trying to make a living just like you and me, rapping about how they're going to blast your head off if you don't "step off, biotch." Right. This is all the parents' faults that their kids listen to this. We should place absolutely no blame on the artists because they're trying to "express" themselves. BULL****. Do not even try to go along that vein of reasoning. Parents, when informed that their kids are listening to such filth, do everything in their power to stop their kids from listening to it. Artists have a responsibility to moderate their message. And the radio and television stations have a responsibility to control what they show to the general audience. But they can't do that, can they? It's because kids want to listen to the crap that they play. And as for playing to what is popular today, that's an entirely specious argument as well. Rappers have been rapping about the same exact things for years and years and years. That is all some of them can rap about! And the public accepts that, which is further evidence that our society's morals are escalating downward. Artists such as Vanessa Carlton and Zwan are just as popular as the rappers, but their messages and lyrics are anything but objectionable. I've no quarrel with artists like them, primarily since they actually demonstrate restraint with their lyrics and have some form of musical talent and deceny in their videos i.e., they can play their own instruments (not just "bouncing" to a monotonous rap beat) and they don't have scantily-clad women popping up every two seconds. When I can say that about rap "artists", then I will silence myself. Until then, this "music" isn't worth crap in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 The only justifiable Rap music IMO are the raps in Gorillaz' songs. "Rock The House" and the "Clint Eastwood" Indie Remix are awesome tracks. All the other stuff that is constantly being released in the charts are 'songs' with jumbled and irrelevantly unlinked words stringed together to make a mesh of incoherant rabble with a single unchanged beat in the background. If that is your definition of 'music', then please shoot me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Originally posted by Darklighter The only justifiable Rap music IMO are the raps in Gorillaz' songs. "Rock The House" and the "Clint Eastwood" Indie Remix are awesome tracks. So you're saying that "Clint Eastwood," a song which is about "sunshine in a bag," (3 guesses what THAT implies ) has redeeming musical value, while other songs that are more straightforward with their endorsement of narcotics does not? I'm confused here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyk0Sith Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 If you're tired of retarded rap music, go buy Deltron 3030, any Jurassic 5 album, Beastie Boys, Blackalicious, The roots...just to name a few. If you never heard any Public Enemy, then at least listen to "Apocalypse 91" album. Listen to "By the time i get to Arizona", now that's a great use of sample and great lyrics. Cuss words are even censored on the album. One of my all time favorite. The Solesides label and Ninjatune also have a bunch of great rappers and dj's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Here are some lines from my favorite rap song; In a 32bit world your a 2bit looser you have your own newsgroup ALT.Total.Looser !!! If you meet me online you know I will beat you If I ever see ya I'll control+alt+delete you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemme w/Stick Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Originally posted by Darklighter If that is your definition of 'music', then please shoot me. *Shoots Darky* j/k Well, thats what I call music, and I stand by it. The beats varies from artist to artist, so you'll never find 2 beats that are alike. I'll agree with you on your Gorillaz thing, and I also think that Clint Eastwood is a great song, but thats it. I'd rather listen to 50 Cent, Eminem, Dr. Dre, Wu-Tang, Killarmy, Sunz of Man, P. Diddy, Killah Priest, Busta Rhymes and Snoop Dogg. But thats my oppinion.... EDIT: this is my 1100th post....yay! -Clemme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-s/<itzo- Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Good point Aru-Wen. Don't it sound so hypocritical. So you're saying we should blame the parents of these kids, not the artists themselves. Yes, they're only trying to make a living just like you and me, rapping about how they're going to blast your head off if you don't "step off, biotch." Right. This is all the parents' faults that their kids listen to this. We should place absolutely no blame on the artists because they're trying to "express" themselves. BULL****. Do not even try to go along that vein of reasoning. Parents, when informed that their kids are listening to such filth, do everything in their power to stop their kids from listening to it. Artists have a responsibility to moderate their message. And the radio and television stations have a responsibility to control what they show to the general audience. But they can't do that, can they? It's because kids want to listen to the crap that they play. And as for playing to what is popular today, that's an entirely specious argument as well. Rappers have been rapping about the same exact things for years and years and years. That is all some of them can rap about! And the public accepts that, which is further evidence that our society's morals are escalating downward. Artists such as Vanessa Carlton and Zwan are just as popular as the rappers, but their messages and lyrics are anything but objectionable. I've no quarrel with artists like them, primarily since they actually demonstrate restraint with their lyrics and have some form of musical talent and deceny in their videos i.e., they can play their own instruments (not just "bouncing" to a monotonous rap beat) and they don't have scantily-clad women popping up every two seconds. When I can say that about rap "artists", then I will silence myself. Until then, this "music" isn't worth crap in my book. You are entitled to your own opinion, you can say pretty much what you want. But I'm not telling you to accept rap, just acknowledge it. Saying that rap doesn't have musical talent is just silly. I mean whats the difference between a rapper or any other recording artist. Rapping consist of verses, chorus, bridges, ect... like any other type of genre. And also producing these beats don't come from the sky and suddenly fall on your lap. People produce these beats from scratch (except P. Diddy of course ). It takes the same skills and talent to develope beats as much as playing actual intruments. You have to understand that an artist write about songs about their life. And most rappers live a life of poverty and crime is the result of that. So you can't blame them for rapping about life. They didn't choose to live life that way, it was the cards that they were dealt with. As I said before, rap display reality, and unfortunately, such pains and struggles, are apart of life. So obviously sex, violence, & drugs will come up here and there. Also another explanation of rappers exposing money, cars, jewelry in their videos I think is because it's a way of showing that they have made it. It's sorta saying "I'm rich now and i have the right to brag about it." But what I really don't understand is that if you're really against rap because of its negative influence (sex, violence & drugs) why not go against movies and video games aswell. I mean I'm pretty sure all of you are fans of both movies or video game because if you weren't we wouldn't be discussing this right now. Rap is just the same, it's just a different form of entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Originally posted by Aru-Wen So you're saying that "Clint Eastwood," a song which is about "sunshine in a bag," (3 guesses what THAT implies ) has redeeming musical value, while other songs that are more straightforward with their endorsement of narcotics does not? I'm confused here. And you think endorsing narcotics more straightforwardly is a good thing?:pIn the end it all comes down to personal opinion though. I can't tell you what music to listen to and what not to listen to, as we all have our own tastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Originally posted by Darklighter And you think endorsing narcotics more straightforwardly is a good thing?:pIn the end it all comes down to personal opinion though. I can't tell you what music to listen to and what not to listen to, as we all have our own tastes. No, not at all. My point was that whether it's straightforward or hidden behined metaphors/allusions/symbolism, it's the same degenerative deviant message. But you're right - you can't tell me what music to listen to any more than I can tell you to. It's all relative to your taste... but I can and will argue the fact that the message most of rap music sends to young impressionable minds is a very negative one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 I don't understand the problem. Rap music wouldn't be around if people didn't buy the records or go to shows or choose to listen to it. So it's what people want to hear. If you don't want other people hearing it, you have to solve that problem yourself. So what's the problem? That there is a negative message conveyed? Or that people make concious choices to listen to a negative message? If it's the former question, well, it's what people want to hear. If it's the latter, well, same answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoguePhotonic Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 You know one thing I see is most that hate rap have no idea what it is like being poor....they all live real nice lives.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-s/<itzo- Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 exactly.... they want to draw quick conclusions but they don't know where rappers are coming from. you got to put yourself in their shoes and see what it's like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by RoguePhotonic You know one thing I see is most that hate rap have no idea what it is like being poor....they all live real nice lives.... Actually, I have a good friend who is REALLY poor. his phones got shut off for a month because they couldn't pay the bills, he can never go to the movies because he has no money, sometimes he can't even come over to my house because he can't afford to put gas in his old beat up car. That said, he HATES rap. Hating rap has NOTHING to do with your situation, there are a lot of spoiled rich kids who listen to rap. Somehow, they seem to find enjoyment out of it. Me, I can't stand it. It does not sound appealing to me, and I think the messages and stories they tell are lame. Wow, you had a rotten life. I'm sorry, please get over it, apparently it wasn't too awfully horrible, as now you are profiting off of it. If I want music to tell me a story or have a message behind it, then I want punk, because they actually have meaning and a message in what they're saying. They're making an effort to bring about change, whether they're upset with government, social classes, or whatever. But hey, that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by ET Warrior Actually, I have a good friend who is REALLY poor. his phones got shut off for a month because they couldn't pay the bills, he can never go to the movies because he has no money, sometimes he can't even come over to my house because he can't afford to put gas in his old beat up car. Son, that ain't poor. When I was growing up we was so poor those things seemed like rich people problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Ya know, for some reason, I KNEW somebody was going to tell me that he isn't poor.....So I guess what I'd really like to know is, what IS poor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by ET Warrior Ya know, for some reason, I KNEW somebody was going to tell me that he isn't poor.....So I guess what I'd really like to know is, what IS poor? In the US at least, the poverty line stands at $17,000 a year for a family of 4, or $4250 per person. Technically, anyone living at or below the poverty line is considered 'poor.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 There are only 2 kinds of music, The music YOU like, and the music YOU don't like. Musical taste is extremely subjective. Can't we all just get along? I actually listen to a little bit of everything, rock, rap, classical, jazz, electronica, punk, funk, reggae, soul, big band, country, uh real country like Jonnhy Cash or Woody Guthrie, not this new sugar coated swill they call pop country. Ah sorry even i have done it I got a Flatscreen Monitor 40 inches wide; I believe yours says Etcha Sketch on the side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by griff38 uh real country like Jonnhy Cash or Woody Guthrie, not this new sugar coated swill they call pop country. Have you heard the Nine Inch Nails cover "Hurt" by Johnny Cash? I've got it on my PC, and I must say that it's pretty good, for a guy that used to hate country. I heard the video was supposed to make an even bigger impression, but I haven't seen that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 No havn't heard it yet but look forward to checkin that one out. Have you ever heard Johnny Cashes cover of SoundGardens Rusty Cage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Johnny Cash's cover of Hurt sucked swollen monkey balls. I heard it on the radio, and I honestly thought it was a joke. I was laughing the whole way through it. Maybe if I never heard the NIN version, I might like it, but it was just too weird for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{BK}SupremePain Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by munik Son, that ain't poor. When I was growing up we was so poor those things seemed like rich people problems. LMAO had to say this: mom, is that you? no offense man but my mom used to say stuff like that a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 I guess your moms sayings are rubbing off on me, on account of her spending so much time over at my house. Snap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acdcfanbill Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 i prefer heavy metal anyway, i would rather listen to music that incites people to shoot themselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pisces Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 That's a lovely sentiment Anyway, it's peoples' choices whether or not they listen to the messages in rap songs that promote sex and violence. I like rap, mainly Eminem (so sue me) and I don't go out and start shooting at people or calling all my girl friends, er, bad names. I just like it, I don't follow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 My brother's dad said... "rap is nothing more than advanced cheerleading drills for chimpanzees comprised of ghetto poetry to premanufactured electronic sounds and was meant to accomplish the same message as graffit" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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