Possible Solutions

[True_Avery]

Good mindset for staff to have

Don't look at me. Look at the moderators that made the rules.

 

I don't think I should be able to own an assault rifle. Am I going to eventually get one? Hell yeah I am.

 

Just because I think I shouldn't be able to do something doesn't mean I wont given the chance. I personally don't think I should be given the flightstick to an f-22, but I'd take the chance in a second.

 

Hypocritical? Yes. As such, I apologize for being human and not meeting this forums unreasonable expectations of the staff gods.

 

Baw? The simple answer to your plight is to just resign, since you hate it so much.

I don't hate it. It it just an annoying job.

 

I just happen to find an attraction to pointless drama. If you do to, feel free to volunteer to help the staff. If you don't like having a vein throb, then stay away.

[Q]

Good mindset for staff to have

 

 

Baw? The simple answer to your plight is to just resign, since you hate it so much.

 

_EW_

You made me laugh, Ender, but you're not helping.

 

And now we all know your secret desires.

[Astor]

I personally think the staff are doing are pretty good jobs of running things - i've no complaints, and have always found them to be extremely approachable if i've needed to raise an issue with them.

[EnderWiggin]

Don't look at me. Look at the moderators that made the rules.

 

Except that you are a moderator.

I just happen to find an attraction to pointless drama. If you do to, feel free to volunteer to help the staff. If you don't like having a vein throb, then stay away.

 

If the staff ever asked me to take a position, I would do it in order to serve the community of which I am a member. However, that's not likely to happen anytime soon, and you don't see me knocking down any doors to get my name in bold. I don't necessarily go looking for trouble.

 

So for now, I'm here, explaining why a staffperson should not undermine other staff and why you should either not complain about your position or quit.

 

_EW_

 

 

EDIT::

I personally think the staff are doing are pretty good jobs of running things - i've no complaints, and have always found them to be extremely approachable if i've needed to raise an issue with them.

 

FTR - I wholeheartedly agree with you, Astor.

[Q]

I personally think the staff are doing are pretty good jobs of running things - i've no complaints, and have always found them to be extremely approachable if i've needed to raise an issue with them.

I think that part of my problem could be summed up as not approaching them enough, and that on one of the few occasions that I did, it was the wrong time to do it and it was about the wrong person.

[True_Avery]

Except that you are a moderator.

Not of Senate. I don't tell them how to do their job, and they don't tell me how to do mine. Senate is there, its rules are there, and the moderators have their way of doing things.

 

Thus back to my point that the staff is hardly as organized and united as many people seem to believe.

 

So for now, I'm here, explaining why a staffperson should not undermine other staff

I am not undermining them. I am a member posting in a forum that is run by staff who have jurisdiction over that area, while I do not. I stay out of their business, and they stay out of mine.

 

If I wanted to undermine them I'd be posting in Senate about how bad I think the mods are. If I wanted to undermine them, I'd be giving infractions and/or banning people who post in senate. I do not, however, because they seem to have a stable thing going. I do not agree with the rules all the way, but they are in place.

 

And just like Kavars, neither I nor anyone else has to go into the forum by force.

 

and why you should either not complain about your position or quit.

Oh if you could only see the staff forums...

 

I think that part of my problem could be summed up as not approaching them enough, and that on one of the few occasions that I did, it was the wrong time to do it and it was about the wrong person.

Agreed completely.

 

People were not getting their satisfied results from reports and such, so they would spam stoffe, d3, and tk with demands that things get done. Tk and stoffe are hardly the people to run to, and it has caused a lot of drama between the admin and moderator portions of the staff.

 

We need input, but going over mods heads to other mods and admins is just as bad as the staff undermining each other, or purposely undermining members.

 

People do not trust the mods to get things done much anymore, and it is starting to bleed over as mistrust between the staff. Staff demanding things get done in forums that do not belong to them, or punishing members in forums they have no privilege to be punishing in is one of the main problems we've been trying to fix lately.

[mimartin]

Disclaimer, these opinions entirely represent me, and not the rest of the Staff nor Lucas Forums

 

I will then admit to myself that the situation is indeed hopeless and quit the forum, so if anyone really does want me gone, here's your chance. [/Quote] The only reason I am replying to this tread is because I do not want this to happen. Normally I’d take this to PM, but since you seem to want things publically stated I will post it here.

 

 

[ 1) Kavar's:[/Quote] The only reason I’m still around here is because of Kavar. If Kavar goes, I will most likely be gone too. Not because I would be angry with Kavar’s closure, but there would be no point for me hanging around here. I’ve enjoyed Kavar existence and even though my post count as gone down in Kavar since my promotion, that has nothing to do with my feelings towards Kavar. It has do to me being uncomfortable moderating a thread that I have posted in. This is not an indictment of any moderator doing their moderating duty in a thread they posted in, it only has to do with me not being comfortable doing it. This also does not mean I will not do it in the future if the need arises and I cannot find a member of the staff to correct a situation.

 

2) Post editing, snipping and deletions:[/Quote] Totally disagree.

Moderators will edit or delete posts as they see fit to enforce these rules.[/Quote]

The staff reserves the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread or post for any reason deemed necessary.[/Quote] I think long and hard before I delete anything. I look really hard to make sure I'm not misinterpreting the meaning of the post. I soft delete everything so that another member of the staff can verify if my decision was correct or not. We also have discussions by IM and PM. If I hand out a warning or infraction there is a system in place to view and evaluate that decision by the entire staff. On a personal note, I will listen to anyone and reevaluate any decision I've made. I know I am human and I know I make mistakes. I don’t want to give infractions, edit or delete post, but that is a hazard of the job.

 

a) To dispel impressions, be they real or imagined, of favoritism, censorship, the destroying of evidence and the sweeping of unpleasantries under the rug.[/Quote] This one annoys me and I take it as a personal insult for reason you have no way of knowing about. However, if anyone ever see me showing favoritism toward anyone, please point it out.

 

b) To enforce permanent accountability on any and all posters, including staff, by preventing the exploitation of the current policy of snipping and deleting flames and other forms of asshattery by depending upon it to cover their tracks. This should make anyone think twice before posting because once it's there, it's there for good and for all to see and use for future reference.[/Quote] Already covered this with two excerpts from Kavar and the forum rules. I would suggest everyone read and follow the rules and there will be no need to delete, edit or snip post.

 

3) Staff meetings and decision-making:

Should be open to the public and subject to oversight and input by all forum members.[/Quote] No, there is no reason for anyone to know what disciplinary action is taken against another member. If that member wants you to know, they can tell you.

 

4) Promotions and demotions:

Should be decided upon by all forum members.[/Quote] I’m unclear on what the procedure is now. However, I don’t believe in letting the inmates run the asylum.

 

I still have no clue on why I was chosen in Kavar. After all, my best friend on the forum is someone that some consider a troublemaker. I sometime feel like whoever is in charge made a terrible mistake. I was asked, I talked to “that friend” about it and was about to turn it down. For some reason I love the insanity that is known as Kavar, so I decided to accept the offer for one cookie a week. Really I agreed so that I could try to give something back to the community I love.

 

Qliveur I a moderator of Kavar, if you have a problem with Kavar you can always PM me. I don’t want to lose you or anyone else as a member. Even though we have not always agreed politically, I do respect your opinion.

[Sabretooth]

None of those will work Qliveur, what you're suggesting is a democracy and democracies only work in government administration, not a video game discussion forum. The same approach doesn't work everywhere.

 

I have discussed this matter with a few friends of my clique and this came of it:

 

1. Origin

The source of this whole problem is, quite frankly, that the forum has gone stale. There have been two great hotspots in LF: the Swamp and the Spaceport, both of which were water coolers for the modding and game discussion communities of the two games.

 

As time passes and the game gets older, people discuss about it less and the game forums are eventually left to the newbies altogether (take a spin around them sometime you elitist snobs). On the contrary, the off-topic forum got a lot more popular as it allowed for discussion on an infinitely wider range of topics.

 

The more serious topics were then lumped into Kavar's. Nothing bad so far. Problem starts like so: many users associate Kavar's with greater importance than the other forums and even though they came to the forums for game discussion, end up throwing pies at each other over Obama's spending policy.

 

So that is our first problem: that the primary focus of these forums shifted from the game itself to the off-topic forums.

 

2. Cliques, Elites and Other French-Origin Words

I will be so bold as to risk being labelled a sonofabitch and blame Skype as one of the reasons behind this whole hullabaloo. Some users will remember that I was reluctant to join Skype and liked to pretend I was a gothic mysticist in the Knights Chat.

 

The reason was, I saw an esoteric club that had been formed between members of the forum. This is not an inherently bad idea, but when the club ends up bitching about each other, laughing at other members of the forum, devising ideas and being very sneaky in general, problems start happening.

 

I will also not deny that there is something of a cabal and at least a perceived thread of favouritism in the Skype cult. The best example I can give you is the controversial stickying of the Imperial appointments thread, which speaks for itself.

 

And as any expert of Skype Dramaz will tell you, there are groups within the Skype group, and individual friendships within these, many perniciously working against each other in some kind of weird festive pagan clockwork.

 

As much as I enjoy the company of some of the people I've met in Skype, I know it feels like some exclusive high school club of elites that all the nerds and dorks have to stay out of. And I can tell these nerds and dorks know this, and most probably don't like it.

 

Don't mean to drag Skype dramaz to the forum, but my point is: there is an undeniable closed group consisting of a sizeable number of forum veterans and regular members including a number of the Knights staff members.

 

What we are now going through is a stage of decay where distrust has bred throughout the forums and rather than as idle commentors, users take each other very seriously as human beings.

 

3. Perfect Post-Apocalyptic Mumbo-Jumbo

I do not know what can come of this or how this can be solved; one solution I have in mind is to let it pass. Sooner or later, a newer community will be inhaled and many of the older members will pass out. That may happen with TOR, that may not happen with TOR. Maybe all of LF is in a decline now. I don't know, I don't have a crystal ball.

 

In any case, as per the theory I have stated in the first part of this reply; we need more users that care about the game and come here everyday to discuss their views and opinions on the game at hand, rather than an all manner of unrelated things. The mental frame of LucasForums being a game discussion forum and a fan community needs to be resurrected and the entire oil spill will clean itself up.

 

And the only way this can happen, is if LucasArts gives us something to talk about, hence my hope for TOR. I like where it has gone so far and I've noticed dozens of new users. I want this figure to grow and eclipse the JK and KotOR members, so that a new era of the forum dawns and all of this bad blood and controversy is buried under the soil.

 

4. Myopia

Looking back to the present: I don't think any constitutional reforms need to be taken in the forum to bring change, neither do we need a charming black man to take over Aristotle's seat. Our staff is, to my knowledge, working the best they can and I still find the forums sufficiently usable and entertaining. So long as it stays like that, I will continue to visit.

 

The social phenomenon will have to change on its own, how and when I cannot predict. Everybody needs to lighten up, stop relating with each other so deeply and be sensible in general.

 

Peace my brothers and sisters,

El Sabre

[True_Avery]

I'm going to have to agree with Sabre on this.

 

While it is true there is a skype chat that goes pretty much 24/7 with staff and members, the cliques that have formed from this are a side effect of the main problem of there simply being no games left to talk about in our gaming forum.

 

Cliques are unavoidable. Staff distrust is unavoidable. Favoritism, etc is all unavoidable.

 

These problems have just been more pronounced lately because the forum is simply decaying. Lucas doesn't release enough lately, so all we really have left to talk about is off-topic and bicker with each other.

 

I don't think there really is a solution to this problem until TOR is released and the community is given new life. Until then, all I can really say to both staff and members is...

 

Hold on.

[Q]

Agreed completely.

We are capable of it, after all. Sorry for being such an evil bastard.

None of those will work Qliveur, what you're suggesting is a democracy and democracies only work in government administration, not a video game discussion forum. The same approach doesn't work everywhere.

 

I have discussed this matter with a few friends of my clique and this came of it:

 

1. Origin

The source of this whole problem is, quite frankly, that the forum has gone stale. There have been two great hotspots in LF: the Swamp and the Spaceport, both of which were water coolers for the modding and game discussion communities of the two games.

 

As time passes and the game gets older, people discuss about it less and the game forums are eventually left to the newbies altogether (take a spin around them sometime you elitist snobs). On the contrary, the off-topic forum got a lot more popular as it allowed for discussion on an infinitely wider range of topics.

 

The more serious topics were then lumped into Kavar's. Nothing bad so far. Problem starts like so: many users associate Kavar's with greater importance than the other forums and even though they came to the forums for game discussion, end up throwing pies at each other over Obama's spending policy.

 

So that is our first problem: that the primary focus of these forums shifted from the game itself to the off-topic forums.

 

2. Cliques, Elites and Other French-Origin Words

I will be so bold as to risk being labelled a sonofabitch and blame Skype as one of the reasons behind this whole hullabaloo. Some users will remember that I was reluctant to join Skype and liked to pretend I was a gothic mysticist in the Knights Chat.

 

The reason was, I saw an esoteric club that had been formed between members of the forum. This is not an inherently bad idea, but when the club ends up bitching about each other, laughing at other members of the forum, devising ideas and being very sneaky in general, problems start happening.

 

I will also not deny that there is something of a cabal and at least a perceived thread of favouritism in the Skype cult. The best example I can give you is the controversial stickying of the Imperial appointments thread, which speaks for itself.

 

And as any expert of Skype Dramaz will tell you, there are groups within the Skype group, and individual friendships within these, many perniciously working against each other in some kind of weird festive pagan clockwork.

 

As much as I enjoy the company of some of the people I've met in Skype, I know it feels like some exclusive high school club of elites that all the nerds and dorks have to stay out of. And I can tell these nerds and dorks know this, and most probably don't like it.

 

Don't mean to drag Skype dramaz to the forum, but my point is: there is an undeniable closed group consisting of a sizeable number of forum veterans and regular members including a number of the Knights staff members.

 

What we are now going through is a stage of decay where distrust has bred throughout the forums and rather than as idle commentors, users take each other very seriously as human beings.

 

3. Perfect Post-Apocalyptic Mumbo-Jumbo

I do not know what can come of this or how this can be solved; one solution I have in mind is to let it pass. Sooner or later, a newer community will be inhaled and many of the older members will pass out. That may happen with TOR, that may not happen with TOR. Maybe all of LF is in a decline now. I don't know, I don't have a crystal ball.

 

In any case, as per the theory I have stated in the first part of this reply; we need more users that care about the game and come here everyday to discuss their views and opinions on the game at hand, rather than an all manner of unrelated things. The mental frame of LucasForums being a game discussion forum and a fan community needs to be resurrected and the entire oil spill will clean itself up.

 

And the only way this can happen, is if LucasArts gives us something to talk about, hence my hope for TOR. I like where it has gone so far and I've noticed dozens of new users. I want this figure to grow and eclipse the JK and KotOR members, so that a new era of the forum dawns and all of this bad blood and controversy is buried under the soil.

 

4. Myopia

Looking back to the present: I don't think any constitutional reforms need to be taken in the forum to bring change, neither do we need a charming black man to take over Aristotle's seat. Our staff is, to my knowledge, working the best they can and I still find the forums sufficiently usable and entertaining. So long as it stays like that, I will continue to visit.

 

The social phenomenon will have to change on its own, how and when I cannot predict. Everybody needs to lighten up, stop relating with each other so deeply and be sensible in general.

 

Peace my brothers and sisters,

El Sabre

Thank you so much for this post, Sabre. It cleared up a lot of things.

 

Moar!

[Astor]

So now that everybody has heard from Q, maybe it would be a good idea if the other aggrieved members explain their grievances.

 

I honestly don't think anyone has anything to fear from the staff, and surely, if things are brought out into the open, then the staff can see about adressing the issues, and putting everyone's minds at ease.

 

That's the only way I can see this being resolved in a way that would allow the community as a whole to move on.

 

EDIT: I realise this may seem hopelessly idealistic, given that no-one seems to trust anyone (and people seem to be afraid of the staff) any more, but it's a step in the right direction, isn't it?

[Ray Jones]

There are like 2 dozen communities/forums each having multiple sections/sub-forums united here on LF, and most of them seem to work fine as is. And you want to change LF all over just because you have 'trouble' in like two of those sub-forums. I wouldn't say the Mojo-folks think they'd need any out of your revolutionary set of 'new' ideas. All it would do is to piss them off, and seriously it'd be a great loss to see them go just because someone feels whiny about a strict set of necessary rules. Etc, etc.

[jonathan7]

Disclaimer, these opinions entirely represent me, and not the rest of the Staff nor Lucas Forums

 

2. Cliques, Elites and Other French-Origin Words

I will be so bold as to risk being labelled a sonofabitch and blame Skype as one of the reasons behind this whole hullabaloo. Some users will remember that I was reluctant to join Skype and liked to pretend I was a gothic mysticist in the Knights Chat.

 

The reason was, I saw an esoteric club that had been formed between members of the forum. This is not an inherently bad idea, but when the club ends up bitching about each other, laughing at other members of the forum, devising ideas and being very sneaky in general, problems start happening.

 

I will also not deny that there is something of a cabal and at least a perceived thread of favouritism in the Skype cult. The best example I can give you is the controversial stickying of the Imperial appointments thread, which speaks for itself.

 

And as any expert of Skype Dramaz will tell you, there are groups within the Skype group, and individual friendships within these, many perniciously working against each other in some kind of weird festive pagan clockwork.

 

As much as I enjoy the company of some of the people I've met in Skype, I know it feels like some exclusive high school club of elites that all the nerds and dorks have to stay out of. And I can tell these nerds and dorks know this, and most probably don't like it.

 

Don't mean to drag Skype dramaz to the forum, but my point is: there is an undeniable closed group consisting of a sizeable number of forum veterans and regular members including a number of the Knights staff members.

 

What we are now going through is a stage of decay where distrust has bred throughout the forums and rather than as idle commentors, users take each other very seriously as human beings.

 

The problem as it seems to me though, that I'm unsure what Moderation staff are meant to do about the Skype issue? I can't really ban Skype, nor do I want to break contact with friends I have from the boards. With regards me and Skype; my Skype address is open to all at Lucas Forums, you only have to PM me asking for my Skype name and you may have it

 

I agree with Sabre's points, I am in the Skype chats but I don't think I'm a member of any cliques, I also know some subjects about Lucas Forums aren't discussed in front of me, as I will moderate anything in forum (you know who I'm talking about! ). I aim and would hope that my moderation here is the same regardless of who you are, and I hope that the majority of you feel that you are treated the same if/when I moderate any of you.

 

My 2 cents the thread in Ahto shouldn't of been stickied, if only for all the trouble its caused. It was a mistake, for me personally I wasn't around at the time (it was my bday around that time ).

 

Looking back to the present: I don't think any constitutional reforms need to be taken in the forum to bring change, neither do we need a charming black man to take over Aristotle's seat. Our staff is, to my knowledge, working the best they can and I still find the forums sufficiently usable and entertaining. So long as it stays like that, I will continue to visit.

 

The social phenomenon will have to change on its own, how and when I cannot predict. Everybody needs to lighten up, stop relating with each other so deeply and be sensible in general.

 

Peace my brothers and sisters,

El Sabre

 

Good post Sabre-rooney!

[Litofsky]

2. Cliques, Elites and Other French-Origin Words

I will be so bold as to risk being labelled a sonofabitch and blame Skype as one of the reasons behind this whole hullabaloo. Some users will remember that I was reluctant to join Skype and liked to pretend I was a gothic mysticist in the Knights Chat.

 

The reason was, I saw an esoteric club that had been formed between members of the forum. This is not an inherently bad idea, but when the club ends up bitching about each other, laughing at other members of the forum, devising ideas and being very sneaky in general, problems start happening.

 

I will also not deny that there is something of a cabal and at least a perceived thread of favouritism in the Skype cult. The best example I can give you is the controversial stickying of the Imperial appointments thread, which speaks for itself.

 

And as any expert of Skype Dramaz will tell you, there are groups within the Skype group, and individual friendships within these, many perniciously working against each other in some kind of weird festive pagan clockwork.

 

As much as I enjoy the company of some of the people I've met in Skype, I know it feels like some exclusive high school club of elites that all the nerds and dorks have to stay out of. And I can tell these nerds and dorks know this, and most probably don't like it.

 

Don't mean to drag Skype dramaz to the forum, but my point is: there is an undeniable closed group consisting of a sizeable number of forum veterans and regular members including a number of the Knights staff members.

 

What we are now going through is a stage of decay where distrust has bred throughout the forums and rather than as idle commentors, users take each other very seriously as human beings

 

Peace my brothers and sisters,

El Sabre

 

A most excellent point, Sabre. While Skype is most excellent fun, it is the home to LucasForums' behind-the-scenes action, where communication- and therefore manipulation- is possible on a whole new level.

 

I don't believe more openness from the staff would fix the forums (you guys are doing a most excellent job as it is), but I wonder why there is such a big commotion over the 'Ahto thread' (I assume regarding DI's Imperial Proclamations)? The election was fun, and His Majesty's ensuing reign, I take it, shall be filled with such messages as these. However, I suppose if you're name was not included it would have stung much more than have healed.

 

I conclude by posting that being generally more accepting and a tad bit nicer would be a great way to start healing.

[Yar-El]

I'm rather new in these seas, and I had no idea members of Lucasforums.com used Skype. I was only recently asked to check it out, and it was no suprise that certain members communicated in such a way. Its is a list similar to the thread of the Who's Who of Lucasforums.com. Skype exists outside of Lucasforums' rules and regulations; thus, it gives moderators and admins a place to talk about forum issues without restraint. I don't know if that is a good or bad thing. Skype's contact list did mirror closely with the Imperial Proclamations, but I don't know if it happend by accident or on purpose.

 

One controversial aspect of Skype will come from it being an open forum, so non staff members and staff members can discuss how to punish a fellow forumite. Without breaking any of Lucasforums' rules. Its similar to an end run around the bigger bosses. I'm hopping my assumptioins are flawed; however, there is the possibility and opportunity for it to happen.

 

Kavar's, Kavar's, Kavar's - What to do. What to do? I'm glad that others are finally seeing what I've been saying. Kavar's is a problem. Do we close the forum down? There is a relationship between its existance and the negetivity in all LF forums; however, it doesn't mean that one is causing the other. There are so many variables on the table, and maybe its a combination of a clique, Kavar's existance, and how forumites feel about TOR. We haven't had any good Star Wars news for a few years, and I think turning Knights into a MMO may have helped trigger some anger. Combine all of these problems, and you have a hot pot boiling over.

 

Lucasforums.com was built by SW game fans for SW game fans. There is a pretty good sized group of staffers and forumites clinging together, but I think this place was developed to be that way. I went back in time through the web archives, and I noticed Lucasforums originaly didn't have a large audience. Maybe its time to shift some rules and habits, so a larger audience can become more involved in a respectable manner. Its a complex issue.

 

The clique should involve everyone here; however, that is not the current state of the forums. Lucasforums needs to evolve with the audience.

[tk102]

maybe it would be a good idea if the other aggrieved members explain their grievances.

I have not received any stipendiary incomes yet.

[Darth InSidious]

Point of information: you can set up separate chats on Skype with the same/similar sets of people.

 

I have not received any stipendiary incomes yet.

Unfortunately, the Ahtonian economy has collapsed, due to its reliance on the Altairian Dollar. We are researching alternative currencies, but since the Flailian Pobble Bead can only be exchanged for other Flailian Pobble Beads, and the Triganic Pu doesn't really cound as money. The exchange rate of 8 ningis to one Pu is fairly simple, but since a ningi is approximately 7000 miles on each side, we've no chance of collecting a single Pu - and the banks refuse to deal in fiddling small change. I'm afraid our options don't look good.

 

We have put together a public broadcast to inform everyone on the issue... and exhort them not to panic.

[Astor]

I have not received any stipendiary incomes yet.

 

Neither have I, for that matter...

 

Only one person has come out to discuss the problems, yet there are bound to be more people with problems - I think that while it's all up for discussion at the moment, now would be as good a time as any.

[Lynk Former]

I'm rather new in these seas, and I had no idea members of Lucasforums.com used Skype. I was only recently asked to check it out, and it was no suprise that certain members communicated in such a way. Its is a list similar to the thread of the Who's Who of Lucasforums.com. Skype exists outside of Lucasforums' rules and regulations; thus, it gives moderators and admins a place to talk about forum issues without restraint. I don't know if that is a good or bad thing. Skype's contact list did mirror closely with the Imperial Proclamations, but I don't know if it happend by accident or on purpose.

You know very well that no admin/supermod/moderator talked about any LF rules and regulations in there.

 

One controversial aspect of Skype will come from it being an open forum, so non staff members and staff members can discuss how to punish a fellow forumite. Without breaking any of Lucasforums' rules. Its similar to an end run around the bigger bosses. I'm hopping my assumptioins are flawed; however, there is the possibility and opportunity for it to happen.

You know very well that the punishment of members was never discussed in there.

 

Kavar's, Kavar's, Kavar's - What to do. What to do? I'm glad that others are finally seeing what I've been saying. Kavar's is a problem. Do we close the forum down? There is a relationship between its existance and the negetivity in all LF forums; however, it doesn't mean that one is causing the other. There are so many variables on the table, and maybe its a combination of a clique, Kavar's existance, and how forumites feel about TOR. We haven't had any good Star Wars news for a few years, and I think turning Knights into a MMO may have helped trigger some anger. Combine all of these problems, and you have a hot pot boiling over.

What?.......

 

Lucasforums.com was built by SW game fans for SW game fans. There is a pretty good sized group of staffers and forumites clinging together, but I think this place was developed to be that way. I went back in time through the web archives, and I noticed Lucasforums originaly didn't have a large audience. Maybe its time to shift some rules and habits, so a larger audience can become more involved in a respectable manner. Its a complex issue.

Unfortunately since you were never actually there, you don't actually know the specifics of what went on in LucasForums or how things were before its existence.

 

LF did actually start off with a pretty huge user base because it was born out of a combination of forums that merged together. That number of people grew and grew till LF came into its prime where we were the busiest we'd ever been... in recent years however it's died down. People are less and less interested about LucasArts games and LA isn't helping much either by releasing so few good ones to talk about. Our rules have been set up for an extremely large audience from the start and this place has already seen its golden age... what I really hope for is a second golden age for this place.

 

The clique should involve everyone here; however, that is not the current state of the forums. Lucasforums needs to evolve with the audience.

Unfortunately it's not possible to have 130 288 members in a skype chat. Also, I don't think the folks from mojo or sam and max really want to be involved with any of us or want anything to do with you.

[EnderWiggin]

I'm rather new in these seas, and I had no idea members of Lucasforums.com used Skype. I was only recently asked to check it out, and it was no suprise that certain members communicated in such a way. Its is a list similar to the thread of the Who's Who of Lucasforums.com.

There are some similarities, but of course, some differences as well. AFAIK, DI doesn't even have Skype installed presently.

 

Skype exists outside of Lucasforums' rules and regulations; thus, it gives moderators and admins a place to talk about forum issues without restraint. I don't know if that is a good or bad thing. Skype's contact list did mirror closely with the Imperial Proclamations, but I don't know if it happend by accident or on purpose.

 

Skype's Contact List? That doesn't even make sense with how the program works. There are many who use Skype (I'm one of them) but as you can see, I keep my name on my profile so any member can contact me. I've spoken to many non-clique (as you seem to refer to it) members on skype as well.

 

Also, staff don't discuss moderation when on Skype. Now, I've PrivateSkyped Jae before and asked her why I got an infraction, but of course, that's the same as a PM anyway.

 

They don't just go around telling everyone about what they do in the forums, but if they do, it's if someone asks why they locked a thread - they might respond with "It was spammy", etc. And, since the mods usually post a reason on the forums anyway, it's not private information.

 

Maybe the staff have done unethical things. (I doubt it.) But they've never done anything reprehensible in the public skype chat.

 

One controversial aspect of Skype will come from it being an open forum, so non staff members and staff members can discuss how to punish a fellow forumite. Without breaking any of Lucasforums' rules. Its similar to an end run around the bigger bosses. I'm hopping my assumptioins are flawed; however, there is the possibility and opportunity for it to happen.

 

I'd appreciate it if you didn't lambaste anyone without knowing the facts first. Non-staff have never been involved in the punishment of a fellow member, at least not in public over skype.

 

For the staff to use it as a Staff Chat is both understandable and intelligent.

Kavar's, Kavar's, Kavar's - What to do. What to do? I'm glad that others are finally seeing what I've been saying. Kavar's is a problem. Do we close the forum down? There is a relationship between its existance and the negetivity in all LF forums; however, it doesn't mean that one is causing the other. There are so many variables on the table, and maybe its a combination of a clique, Kavar's existance, and how forumites feel about TOR. We haven't had any good Star Wars news for a few years, and I think turning Knights into a MMO may have helped trigger some anger. Combine all of these problems, and you have a hot pot boiling over.

 

You don't have to go to any forums you don't like

 

_EW_

[Darth InSidious]

AFAIK, DI doesn't even have Skype installed presently.

True. I like to get things done occasionally.

[GarfieldJL]

Okay first of all I don't think Kavar's should be closed, however there is a major problem at Lucas Forums.

 

 

I have found that there is blatent partisanship and a double standard on these forums, I have documented it and kept a record of some of the conversations back and forth via e-mail.

 

First of all, one of the mods even admitted that most of the modded posts on Kavar's was from people flaming, flamebaiting, with me specifically being the target of those flamebaits and flames. Seriously, if I don't still have it on my PM inventory I have saved copies in my e-mail. Did those people get punished, generally no unless it was a slap on the wrist, on the flipside I've taken a lot of sanctions for finally retailiating because I had had enough.

 

Quite frankly, with respect to Darth333's comments I couldn't disagree with him more about the modship at Kavar's or most of Lucasforums. If you aren't in a particular clique you can typically expect to be treated like garbage, and I would liken my treatment here to cyber-bullying and harassment. I'm not blaming Darth333, because I know he is honest and he's had to step in a few times over this.

 

Yes I know I can be irritating, yes I know I have a strong personality, and if I feel really strongly about something I'll stay on it like a bulldog on a bone. But that does not give people the right to flamebait me, outright flame me, threaten me (which one of the staff here has done), etc.

 

I'm not out to point fingers, but there is a problem and some of the worst offenders are the ones denying that it exists.

 

I have seen a lot of the posts where I've been flamed and then it is swept under the rug and people act like they have no clue why I'm angry, well I usually have seen the flamebaits before the mods had done anything, and quite frankly I've lost confidence in several members of the staff here, that reporting those individuals would do anything.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

people treat you like crap because of your bat**** insane political views, your stubbornness, and because you call other people liars and put words in their mouths, not because you don't know the right people

[GarfieldJL]

people treat you like crap because of your bat**** insane political views, your stubbornness, and because you call other people liars and put words in their mouths, not because you don't know the right people

 

You mean you and a few others tried to put words in my mouth. I have generally refrained from calling members of the board liars, I have accused sources that have been provided of not being truthful, I've backed that fact up and then I've called people out when they've continued to use the said source concerning the same topic that it had been caught at being dishonest about, there is a difference.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

*argues semantics instead of trying to rectify his own faults and goes into denial*

*is garfieldjl*