Imperial Star Destroyer vs. USS Enterprise

[GarfieldJL]

Garfield @ Yuthura... Canon is canon.

 

Just because you both think the great maker of Star Trek is somehow lacking scientific knowledge in something and that as a consequence he is now no longer applicable for dictating canon for Star Trek? Even though Gene created it? You actually are trying to pitch to the jury that he is wrong here?

 

Wow! Just wow! That's true comedy right there!

 

If canon is contradicted by more recent canon, the more recent canon wins, offhand there was a first Season TNG episode that contradicts your argument on Ion power.

 

Furthermore, the TNG Technical Manual contradicts your arguement as well, since because of the Fusion reactors on the Impulse Engines, the Enterprise also uses a form of Ion Propulsion at sublight.

 

 

@ Jonathan7

 

I find it amusing that people think that a ship that uses a power source that would rate as secondary and/or emergency power on another ship could possible take on said ship.

 

The amount of power generated by a Matter/Antimatter reaction makes the ISD's giant Fusion Reactor look pathetic, it's simple physics.

 

I'm halfway expecting next someone will claim the Death Star was larger than a Dyson Sphere...

 

 

@ Tommycat

 

If you study the information available concerning Turbolasers, you'd find that one of the reasons for Turbolasers being as big as they are, is for cooling to keep them from overheating. This is because Turbolasers are a plasma weapon, which again points to Fusion power.

 

The amount of power a fusion reactor as seen with an ISD would potentially be enormous, however a matter/antimatter reaction is over 10,000 times that. The key with a fusion reaction is that you wouldn't be getting all of the reaction to occur at once. You have surrounding the reaction, a bunch of Hydrogen that has been stripped of it's electrons and turned into plasma. Pressure is used to increase the temperature and force Nuclear Fusion to occur in the center.

 

By contrast, the Enterprise just has some Antimatter and Matter collide with each other in the M/ARC (which isn't that hard to accomplish because you don't need to overwhelm degeneracy pressure (if I remember correctly that is the correct term), because Antimatter carries an opposite electrical charge. Opposite charges attract, whereas the ISD has to get two like charges to slam into each other.

 

A good experiment would be to take two magnets and try to push the two North Poles together, you will have a force that tries to stop you. Now turn one magnet around so that the South end faces the other magnet's north end and watch what happens.

 

Essentially, the ISD has to use more power input to get it's power output than the Enterprise does, on top of the fact the Enterprise generates more power in the actual reaction.

[jonathan7]

@ Jonathan7

 

I find it amusing that people think that a ship that uses a power source that would rate as secondary and/or emergency power on another ship could possible take on said ship.

 

The amount of power generated by a Matter/Antimatter reaction makes the ISD's giant Fusion Reactor look pathetic, it's simple physics.

 

I'm halfway expecting next someone will claim the Death Star was larger than a Dyson Sphere...

 

Because real physics has a place in an imaginary universe where there are midicholorians and an invisible force? The use of Jedi powers goes against physical rules.....

[Darth_Yuthura]

Garfield @ Yuthura... Canon is canon.

 

Just because you both think the great maker of Star Trek is somehow lacking scientific knowledge in something and that as a consequence he is now no longer applicable for dictating canon for Star Trek? Even though Gene created it? You actually are trying to pitch to the jury that he is wrong here?

 

Wow! Just wow! That's true comedy right there!

 

Yes, as a matter of fact. I am explicitly stating that Gene's vision of the future was imperfect. A lot of new cannon from Star Trek: TNG contradicts this ONE line from Gene's old cannon. If Gene were right, it either made TNG,DS9, and Voyager riddled with continuity problems... or it was just that Gene was wrong about that one line.

 

It would be like justifying the Iraq war because of one document that showed Iraq had nuclear weapons... which happened to contradict many others that were more reliable and available to Bush at the time he made the decision.

 

PS: I would appreciate if Redhawke would stop pressing this issue. The argument on what Scotty said is moot.

[GarfieldJL]

Because real physics has a place in an imaginary universe where there are midicholorians and an invisible force? The use of Jedi powers goes against physical rules.....

 

Sorry, but Star Trek Physics is based off of Real Life Physics, and if you argue that Fusion produces more energy in the Wars universe (by the speed of light being faster), the amount of energy generated in a matter/antimatter reaction would also increase.

 

Again, is there next going to be the claim that the Death Star is larger than a Dyson Sphere...

[Quanon]

TIE fighters also don't have shields.

 

Rhetorical Question: What would happen to a TIE fighter if it were to fly into a cloud of antimatter?

 

 

Well yes, doesn't mean they can't dodge it.

 

I could argue that the Enterprise can go at least as fast as an A-Wing at sublight. Furthermore, the Enterprise can alter the spread of its phaser fire from narrow beam to a wide beam, to a cone, enabling them to take out multiple TIE fighters at the same time, since TIEs don't have shields.

 

 

Its not because you can go fast, you can take fast sharp corners.

Being in space; I guess you can take abrupt corners, since the mass of the ship doesn't give that much pressure and stress on its frame.

 

Still TIE fighter due to its small size can go fast and do far more crazy twists and turns.

 

Nor are most pilots complete idiots, so if the Enterprise uses it wide cone shot

other pilots would learn from it

 

I'm not picking real sides, it all by all a cool idea to see them go at each other, whatever universe you like.

 

Though a second thought, being in space means theres like almost no friction, doesn't that mean when you once set off with a speed, you go faster and faster, even without accelerating/ giving more gass/energie ?

 

So infact when you once give a trust/ push thing would keep up going faster and faster ?

[True_Avery]

NERD RAGE!!!!

 

I'm sorry, but if you wanna argue real physics in this universe then you could always go to Kavars, but don't act like Star Trek and star Wars physics have complete basis in reality

 

Thread too srs bsns

 

EDIT: And no, before one of you bites my head off this is not a mod note. This is a concerned suggestion from one nerd to another.

[SW01]

I had a go at an ISD vs. the Enterprise in Bridge Commander - the results were...interesting...within seconds Enterprise-E had no front shield, then soon after there were the little bits of scrap bearing Federation markings floating about that were mentioned earlier...

 

Now, 8 Enterprises, however, evens the odds a little bit.

[EnderWiggin]

PS: I would appreciate if Redhawke would stop pressing this issue. The argument on what Scotty said is moot.

 

Luckily that's not your call to make. He has presented an argument, and you basically said "Nuh-uh" and put your fingers in your ears. That doesn't mean he has to stop his argument

 

_EW_

[GarfieldJL]

I had a go at an ISD vs. the Enterprise in Bridge Commander - the results were...interesting...within seconds Enterprise-E had no front shield, then soon after there were the little bits of scrap bearing Federation markings floating about that were mentioned earlier...

 

Now, 8 Enterprises, however, evens the odds a little bit.

 

That's because the person that made the Star Destroyer was the same one that thought the Deathstar was larger than a Dyson Sphere. Key here is that it is a mod (created by a Star Wars fanatic), when I installed the Star Destroyer, I completely reworked it's weapons systems so it was more accurate.

 

For the Record a Dyson sphere would completely enclose a Star at a general radius of 1 AU (the average radius of Earth's orbit). The Death Star is the size of a small moon.

 

Its not because you can go fast, you can take fast sharp corners.

Being in space; I guess you can take abrupt corners, since the mass of the ship doesn't give that much pressure and stress on its frame.

 

Actually the mass determines how much inertia you have, the stress on the frame has to do with the acceleration. A TIE fighter is a short range fighter without shields, the Enterprise is basically a Capital ship.

 

Space does have slight amounts of friction but not a whole lot of it, the key here is the ability to change direction, the Enterprise has been seen pulling off maneuvers that you would expect the Millenium Falcon to make, an ISD does not have the ability to match the Enterprise in maneuverability or come even close to it.

 

And as far as the cone shots, I'm not sure the TIE Pilots would have a chance to adapt, because it looks like Phaser Beams travel much closer to the speed of light compared to Turbolaser blasts, the TIE Pilots wouldn't have time to react.

 

 

Oh just thought of the one ToS episode that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the original Enterprise is more powerful than an ISD.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doomsday_Machine_(TOS_episode)

 

The USS Constellation managed to survive a direct hit from a weapon that can destroy planets (albiet worse for wear), and the Enterprise also took a hit from that weapon and survived. If a Constitution Class ship can survive a hit from a weapon that can blow up a planet, it's safe to say a Galaxy Class is more powerful than an ISD.

[Mandalorian54]

A Star Destroyer could destroy a star, it would just take a while. Pluss a Star Destroyer is operated by capable efficient military officers motivated by fear, where as the USS Enterprise is operated by a bunch of nerds who spend most of their time talking about what they're going to do next and every possible outcome of their interaction with the Star Destroyer and all their secondary subplore reactor devices and junk on their ship that doesn't really do anything but takes a long time to explain.

 

Ugh, I hate Star Trek so much. So yeah, my oppinion is completely bias.

[SW01]

That's because the person that made the Star Destroyer was the same one that thought the Deathstar was larger than a Dyson Sphere. Key here is that it is a mod (created by a Star Wars fanatic), when I installed the Star Destroyer, I completely reworked it's weapons systems so it was more accurate.

 

Now there's a thought...might try that myself so that modded-nearly-god-ships last more than ten seconds after engaging. It's always irked me, especially due to the whole 'lasers can't even breach navigational shields' thing.

 

And I had hoped someone would bring up the Doomsday Machine - mainly because I knew it was a highly destructive force, but have never seen the episode so don't really know what it was about. I suppose it was the TOS equivalent of a Borg Cube?

 

EDIT: Though this may be a better link.

 

EDIT: After reading, it's actually more of a Death Star...very interesting.

[jonathan7]

So yeah, my oppinion is completely bias.

 

That really doesn't make you any different from most people in thread

[Mav]

Thread too srs bsns

I agree. Therefore my argument... ISD wins because it is hueg liek xbawks

[Mandalorian54]

That really doesn't make you any different from most people in thread

 

You left the most important part out of that quote, "I hate Star Trek".

[Darth_Xavior]

USS Enterprise deffinatly. unless it is a Super . . .

[Q]

As if we needed more proof that, like Tellarites, certain people will argue for the sake of arguing, no matter how ridiculous the subject matter may be.

 

Jae, you stinker!

[jonathan7]

Deleted a few off-topic posts, please keep it on topic and friendly peeps, this thread is getting too serious; take a deep breath and chill -- j7

[Quanon]

Wait a minute, if the Enterprise can have Picard, then the ISD can have Thrawn on the bridge

[Tommycat]

Wait a minute, if the Enterprise can have Picard, then the ISD can have Thrawn on the bridge

Doesn't matter. Enterprise has the Infinite Impossibility Generator.

/thread

[Darth_Yuthura]

Ok everyone, lets have everyone take a deep breath. I think facts have been presented by both sides as to why they think what they think, lets not get personal, and ultimatly I think there is a lot of subjectivity in this thread. -- j7

 

I have left this in for the record;

 

I don't want to carry this on, I just want others to know it's not denial.

[Astor]

Wow. All this science mumbo-jumbo sucked the fun out of this real fast.

 

Why can't it just be a bit of fun?

[Darth_Yuthura]

I guess that Star Wars will ultimately win out in this. The simple fact is that there are some who like only SW or ST, but there are some who like both. For those who like Star Trek alone... not too many of them here now, are there?

 

I like both, but for different reasons. Star Trek revolves a little more around a perfect society and advanced technology based on science from our world today.

 

Star Wars seems to show a more realistic kind of society that happens to have space ships and laser cannons as common as we have trains and M-16's.

 

I would give Star Trek the edge mainly because it explains much more about the technology and discoveries where in Star Wars, the technology really doesn't have to be explained. When you come down to it, you can't compare this apple with this orange. We each have our reasons and a little something like statistics and physics won't change people's minds.

 

We should just accept that here and now that we won't sway the opposite side one way or another.

[Astor]

I guess that Star Wars will ultimately win out in this. The simple fact is that there are some who like only SW or ST, but there are some who like both. For those who like Star Trek alone... not too many of them here now, are there?

 

Well, there's not going to be many people on a Star Wars forum who like only Star Trek.

[Jedi_Man]

In my own personal opinion, The Star Destroyer would win, especially if it had Darth Vader roaming the corridors.

But, the Enterprise has been through alot...

Bah, I vote Super Star Destroyer.

*Steals Super Star Destroyer and takes a joyride*

[Jae Onasi]

Jae, you stinker!

Couldn't resist. Hehe