Bioware game chart

[Darth Avlectus]

Astro...a padawan?

 

Hoo boy...I hope you know what you're getting yourself into with that one.

[mimartin]

There _IS_ a relationship between consumers (new and existing), and formula manufactured games.

Not just games, but music, books, television shows and movies. Sure some creatively breakout out of their medias contrived formulas for success, but if their creative unorthodox formula proves successful, then it is copied and quickly becomes the mainstream formula for success. If not, then it is merely considered an unsuccessful gimmick.

 

Yes, BioWare has certain characteristics common (or close to common) in most of their games. I know this and it is a contributing factor as to why I purchase their games. I know Journey plays a certain formulate type of music, I don’t want to pick up an album to suddenly hear Steve Perry singing disco, just because they were interested in breaking the mold.

[Salzella]

Astro...a padawan?

 

Hoo boy...I hope you know what you're getting yourself into with that one.

 

Brown noser

[Jae Onasi]

Yes, BioWare has certain characteristics common (or close to common) in most of their games. I know this and it is a contributing factor as to why I purchase their games. I know Journey plays a certain formulate type of music, I don’t want to pick up an album to suddenly hear Steve Perry singing disco, just because they were interested in breaking the mold.

*Jae shudders at the thought of Steve Perry singing disco*

 

This is true, however. The chart is tongue-in-cheek, and I meant for it to be some light-hearted fun. However, I know what I'm getting with a Bioware game, at least in general, and I also know that I'm going to enjoy it.

 

Obsidian, as an example of a dev that experiments, can give me phenomenal things like Kreia, the banter with Sand, and stories with wonderful complexity, and then epic fail things like "Congrats! You've just killed the King of Shadows! You have enough magic and uber-strength to kill a god, but not enough to keep a stupid building standing! Too bad, we're tossing rocks on you so you die ignominiously, rendering your entire time playing this game completely fruitless, because we don't feel like making up different endings to accommodate whether you were Savior of the World or Evil Nasty Overlord. Bwahahahahaha!" I still haven't quite forgiven OE for messing with me like that.

 

I'm not going to get the same story-crafting in Bioware that I'm going to get with whatever company Chris Avellone happens to be at at that time, but I'm not going to get screwed over as a player, either, with totally random funky stuff like killing your PC off at the end of the game for no reason. With Bioware, I know I'm going to get an enjoyable story, enjoyable characters, fun banter back and forth with party members, some tough bosses, gameplay mechanics I can generally work out without great difficulty, the option to play uber-good or totally evil, and a satisfying ending to the game. I want entertainment when I game, and Bioware delivers that consistently.

[mur'phon]

Jae: to be honest, Bioware screwed me over with an ending more than Obsidian ever did.

NWN2 and ME1 spoiler

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While rock falls, everybody dies, was somewhat annoying (me allready having MotB, probably helped my mood), ME1's ending almost made me kill my PC in anger. I didn't try to save the council because, risking everything to save a few border on insanity, not beause I'm a fracking human supremacist. Note I have little aginst ME otherwise (paragon/renegade, generic plot, and awfull companions aside), and had been enjoying the playthrough, which only made the slap in the face all the worse.

 

When it commes to Bioware games in general, there are bits of them I hate, like their fairly bland plots, black/white choices (ME didn't solve this, since the convo skills are conected to Paragon/Renegade, and as such limits your options). However, things like gameplay tend to be good for RPG's in general (personal taste I know) and getting better, they have at least one companion I want to keep around (ME is an exception) and with DA at least they react often enough (even if they aren't too deep), they don't usually apear to have ran out of resources midway through the game, they tend to be fairly bug free (eventually anyway, I rarely play games on release).

 

So yes, I will still probably buy every Bio game that commes out (excluding TOR), but when I finaly get to a gaming rig in the summer, ME2 will have to wait until I'm done with Alpha Protocoll.

[jrrtoken]

Obsidian, as an example of a dev that experiments, can give me phenomenal things like Kreia, the banter with Sand, and stories with wonderful complexity, and then epic fail things like "Congrats! You've just killed the King of Shadows! You have enough magic and uber-strength to kill a god, but not enough to keep a stupid building standing! Too bad, we're tossing rocks on you so you die ignominiously, rendering your entire time playing this game completely fruitless, because we don't feel like making up different endings to accommodate whether you were Savior of the World or Evil Nasty Overlord. Bwahahahahaha!" I still haven't quite forgiven OE for messing with me like that.

In all fairness, it was more of a Fahrenheit 451-thing than anything else, and frankly, the alternative would be rather... generic. Then again, NWN2's OC was rather generic as well, so yeah. If all else, there's something called MotB which provided quite an "epic" ending that would most likely fit the "satisfactory" criteria, according to yourself. Challenging a metaphysical domain is certainly more epic than any duel with Malak or Saren, me thinks.

With Bioware, I know I'm going to get an enjoyable story, enjoyable characters, fun banter back and forth with party members, some tough bosses, gameplay mechanics I can generally work out without great difficulty, the option to play uber-good or totally evil, and a satisfying ending to the game.

I can also get the same joy from every BioWare game... so what's the need for playing them all when I can play any one and get the same end-result?

[adamqd]

Its only a Cliche' if you've experienced the other games it apparently resembles, KotOR Is Awesome, the fact it has the same template as another game I haven't played means nothing to me personally

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

Ecclesiastes Chapter 1. It's the Bible's way of saying that the only way for life not to suck is to pretend that it doesn't.

 

The only way that I can do that is if I stay stoned 24/7. I lived like that for 10 years, and I came to the conclusion that I'd rather be miserable. At least it's real.

 

uh. i dont see how this fits the topic...

[Darth Avlectus]

Brown noser

 

Scurvy cur! What's this nonsense?

 

Astro looks kinda like the old ECW wrestler Tazz, the freakin' suplex machine. I'm itching to see someone get tazzplexed through a table.

[mimartin]

This is true, however. The chart is tongue-in-cheek, and I meant for it to be some light-hearted fun.

You can make fun of my state, my mother, even my dog, but my vidya games are not a laughing matter.

 

 

 

 

[Jae Onasi]

You can make fun of my state, my mother, even my dog, but my vidya games are not a laughing matter.

I doubt you'd let me make fun of your state.

[Darth Avlectus]

The internet: [serious business].

[Drunkside]

Hmm... At some points i do really agree with that chart, but then again, it tends to either under or overstate some of the parts. But really, the travel to 4(or 5 or 6) places is basically in every game, but hey, if you give partial freedom to the player what else can you do? And the stories are all from the same template, they just change something every time. But hey, it works better than any other ive seen so why not?

[ZimmMaster]

Scurvy cur! What's this nonsense?

 

Astro looks kinda like the old ECW wrestler Tazz, the freakin' suplex machine. I'm itching to see someone get tazzplexed through a table.

 

I see your where your coming from but I think he looks a little more like the bald asian head you can use in KOTOR.

[Miltiades]

Some clichés are harder to avoid than others, I guess. BioWare has tried to get away of the 'unimportant peasant who defeats the great evil overlord' cliché by letting players choose a history for their character in recent games. Other clichés are connected to a streamlined gameplay experience (companions).

 

Yet another group of clichés is being overused without a sign of those disappearing, even though to me they seem perfectly avoidable. The ancient civilizations (Rakata, Protheans) are examples, as is the adherence to a 'four main locations' gameplay element or the story element of the main villain being a former agent for the forces of good (Malak, Master Li, Saren).

 

What bothers me isn't the consistency with which BioWare uses these clichés (I admit it, I do love a good cliché-ridden story sometimes - it's like watching a mindless action film), but the consistency with which reviewers keep praising BioWare's stories, as if each and every one is an original piece of art.

[The Betrayer]

Some clichés are harder to avoid than others, I guess. BioWare has tried to get away of the 'unimportant peasant who defeats the great evil overlord' cliché by letting players choose a history for their character in recent games. Other clichés are connected to a streamlined gameplay experience (companions).

 

Yet another group of clichés is being overused without a sign of those disappearing, even though to me they seem perfectly avoidable. The ancient civilizations (Rakata, Protheans) are examples, as is the adherence to a 'four main locations' gameplay element or the story element of the main villain being a former agent for the forces of good (Malak, Master Li, Saren).

 

What bothers me isn't the consistency with which BioWare uses these clichés (I admit it, I do love a good cliché-ridden story sometimes - it's like watching a mindless action film), but the consistency with which reviewers keep praising BioWare's stories, as if each and every one is an original piece of art.

 

Well it's not like they're repacking old sardines into new cans. I believe that the praise BioWare receives from storyline bases does not "summarize" the whole story experience into one delectable sentence, but takes into account all factors of the experience. The Fade, the Dwarven kingdoms of Orzammar, Citadel in Mass Effect. These are all locations with their own very greatly-crafted stories of origin.

 

The very universes of the two games above (DA and ME) are so immersible, and that's why I believe that they do deserve the praise for storyline.

[LordOfTheFish]

Quite nifty.

[True_Avery]

Some clichés are harder to avoid than others, I guess. BioWare has tried to get away of the 'unimportant peasant who defeats the great evil overlord' cliché by letting players choose a history for their character in recent games. Other clichés are connected to a streamlined gameplay experience (companions).

 

Yet another group of clichés is being overused without a sign of those disappearing, even though to me they seem perfectly avoidable. The ancient civilizations (Rakata, Protheans) are examples, as is the adherence to a 'four main locations' gameplay element or the story element of the main villain being a former agent for the forces of good (Malak, Master Li, Saren).

 

What bothers me isn't the consistency with which BioWare uses these clichés (I admit it, I do love a good cliché-ridden story sometimes - it's like watching a mindless action film), but the consistency with which reviewers keep praising BioWare's stories, as if each and every one is an original piece of art.

It is considered in bad taste to compare games to each other as a "professional" reviewer. In reality, this happens but still, you're meant to judge a movie/game upon its own merits.

 

This happens more in movies than it does games. It is why so many sequels that jump directly into the plot end up getting rated lower; they don't stand up as well as a stand alone movie. Most good reviewers do their best to grab the movie, try and act like they've never seen the first, then pick it apart.

 

While game reviewing isn't as professional in some regards, the concept is the same. The less a game is able of standing on its own two feet as a game, the lower score it gets.

 

Does the story have to be original? It is a bonus, but not a prerequisite. Is the story stable and enjoyable? Then it gets its rating based on how well it sits.

 

As a list of games are the ideas getting stale? Yeah. Is each rendition of these at least fun to experience? I think so.

 

Basically I'd consider a reviewer unprofessional and pretentious if all they did in a review is point out every cliche instead of just telling whether or not the game has legs to stand on. It's why I lost respect for a few online reviewers I follow when all they did was yell about the Cliches of Avatar instead of explaining to me whether these cliches worked or not.

[Taak Farst]

I love BioWare and have been a long time fan of their games. I think it's good for them to have frame to go on. It isn't really repetetive if they know how to make it different. To me, For Example - Something like Baldur's Gate is HUGELY different to Mass Effect.

 

To be honest though some of their stuff sounds very familiar..

In KotOR - U find out u were revan (Screw u kotor players, you shouldn't even be here until u have finished the game )

and I think it's awfully similar to finding out vader was luke's dad.

 

And Orzammar in Dragon Age sounds lots like Orgrimmar from WarCraft..

[Sabretooth]

Basically I'd consider a reviewer unprofessional and pretentious if all they did in a review is point out every cliche instead of just telling whether or not the game has legs to stand on. It's why I lost respect for a few online reviewers I follow when all they did was yell about the Cliches of Avatar instead of explaining to me whether these cliches worked or not.

This would be an excellent opportunity to post this:

 

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[True_Avery]

This would be an excellent opportunity to post this:

Seen it, Hilarious. However, he still acknowledges it is a decent movie that makes use of its crippling amount of cliches. This was one, if not the only review, I thought gave the movie a fair trial. Between Nostalgia Critic, Spoony, etc, it was the first that gave me a breakdown other than "Dances with Wolves".

[Darth Avlectus]

My biggest gripe about reviewers is that if they are not either being subjective (or perhaps pretentious as others pointed out above), they are often under set guidelines instead of simply objective criteria. Some pro reviewers (like certain stores) may even be under pay or sway of certain developers/companies and rate certain games higher with promotion of certain products in mind, and other products not in their little loop to be lower.

 

Since we've more or less established that there can be/often is a formula or under-structure to a game's development and that new and original often times is not what we'd hope, then what ought to be taken into consideration is what a particular title does to compensate for that cliche'd-ness. Also in mind that there is only so much that can reasonably be done.

 

The way I review it: What was the ultimate intent and direction behind the piece itself? You must have an ultimate end goal to be reached if the work is to accomplish anything meaningful at all--important programming lesson there...and life lesson for that matter.

 

A an action challenge game is meant to test your manual dexterity and perfection in executing skills and functions.

 

An rpg can focus storyline and tactics.

 

Fighter games, like action games, test your execution skill--and your mettle.

 

etc.

 

While anti-intuitive elements for a storyline are a creative way to jog the minds of players, if the game lacks a compelling feel (what drives and appeals to players to keep trying/coming back for more) to it then your audience will tire of it quickly.

 

This is one of those sorts of things that can backfire especially if you both lack creativity and are unreasonable in your expectations of your audience's ability to play. Not an easy feat to accomplish, either; when it succeds, though, it probably makes for quite a hit.