Cmdr. Cracken Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 not trollish, just saving the thread. Politically charged convo's never go well here. Except when it deals with the Patriot Act, which I think is the one thing we can all agree to hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Cute kitten is cute. But I'm not a fan of unions either... but I have no problem with their right to exist. And I believe that in the balance they have probably done far more good than harm for society. But their influence seems to be waning. And there are a lot of conservatives who rabidly hate them and want to see them all destroyed. Which is why the outcome of this legislation actually interests me... to see which way the wind is blowing... and if the backlash could be far more intense than anyone supporting this bill ever expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 unions long ago strayed from their true intent, which was guarenteeing a safe workplace and a living wage, now they are trying to get white collar pay for unskilled workers mostly and screwing over their employer they do at times protect the rights of their members, but they seem to spend more time trying to F over the NBUs for their own sake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Kinnison Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Most labor laws today are there because strong unions fought for them. Since the early 80s lawmakers and corporate leaders have done their best to break up their power. Either by appointing anti-union Judges, or shipping manufacturing jobs overseas. Quite frankly, teachers, fireman, police officers (all state union employees) don't get paid enough. And there was a day when a hard working individual could work at one job, do it very well, and have a decent retirement to look forward to after working 40 years with just a high school education. IMHO if you have never worked as part of a union or at least know someone close to you who does, you don't understand what it is like for Union workers. Instead you rely on Rehtoric of politicians, media, and corporations to sway your opinion and skew the facts. If the "Imperial Walker Budget Bill" gets passed it is quite likely a lot of state employees will end up losing their job, or take a 20% cut in their net pay. I have one friend who only gets a pay check of 24k for the year. She doesn't make a lot of money, and will make even less if the bill passes. For the last several years many State union employees have forgone raises (even Cost of living adjustments) as long as their costs for benefits didn't change. My Fiancee works for the State DOT as a civil engineer. She brings in about 65k a year, and she is part of the state Union. If this bill passes, it is quite likely will will not be able to afford having a child. Due to her age, this means it is possible we will NEVER have a child of our own. The new budget means she goes from making 65k a year to around 55k. Oh and because her union no longer can negotiate, the state could very well end up pulling ALL of her benefits at the slightest whim of the governor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 over halfway through with teller training. they let me keep a bunch of fake money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samnmax221 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 holy ****. in a state that already has outrageous taxes! You can thank Governor Teabag for giving $140 worth of tax credit to special interests, causing a budget shortfall, and using it as an excuse to gut the unions. He's also trying to spin UW Madison off of the rest of the Wisconsin university system so he can install a new board, and wreck one of the best colleges in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 My Fiancee works for the State DOT as a civil engineer. She brings in about 65k a year, and she is part of the state Union. If this bill passes, it is quite likely will will not be able to afford having a child. Due to her age, this means it is possible we will NEVER have a child of our own. The new budget means she goes from making 65k a year to around 55k. Oh and because her union no longer can negotiate, the state could very well end up pulling ALL of her benefits at the slightest whim of the governor. Unless you have huge debts to pay off or something, $55,000 a year is more than enough to afford a child, even if you didn't work at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Kinnison Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 THe worry right now is she might not even have a JOB in the near future. One of the extra special budget items is that if a worker is gone for more then 3 days they can be terminated from their job. Thank labor unions they helped fight for the Family and Medical Leave Act which allows 12 weeks to care for the newborn. But it would likely take a lawsuit to make sure UPDATE: Estimated 30,000 people demonstrated today. Tomorrow many schools are closing down due to Teachers joining the Protests. I guess if Gov Walker wants to pay them less then what babysitters make, I would strike to An aside. Gov Walker has not returned to the Capitol building since Last friday. By law he has to present his budget in front of the legislators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Most labor laws today are there because strong unions fought for them. Since the early 80s lawmakers and corporate leaders have done their best to break up their power. Either by appointing anti-union Judges, or shipping manufacturing jobs overseas. Quite frankly, teachers, fireman, police officers (all state union employees) don't get paid enough. And there was a day when a hard working individual could work at one job, do it very well, and have a decent retirement to look forward to after working 40 years with just a high school education. sorry thats total BS. All are generally paid quite well. If teachers want more money they should work an actual full time job. My wife is a teacher in a small district, I am an IT admin and based on her contract we have the exact same hourly wage. Where I live firefighters and cops *start* just below 60k/year. They started breaking up unions due to morons like AFSCME. Thanks to the local afcsme chapter at my last employer a dumbass with a HS diploma was getting over 40k to shovel asphault, and getting paid more than jobs the employer required a BS to even consider hiring for. Most unions now waste their time protecting worthless employees and trying to F over the NBU employees. The world will not end if WI busts unions. sucks about your fiance though, as the state/local gov are one of the few places civil engineers can get jobs. maybe you will get lucky and a local engineering firm will be hiring and she can go private sector as far as pensions go, the state made its own bed in that, and it really sucks that you kinda get dicked to, but most jobs dont have pensions, and you can always start your own IRA/def comp plan, I have 2 extra deferred comp plans and a IRA on top of my pension going incase my pension folds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 THe worry right now is she might not even have a JOB in the near future. One of the extra special budget items is that if a worker is gone for more then 3 days they can be terminated from their job. pretty sure that violates federal law unless he means no more long term leave w/o pay. your Gov sounds AWESOME, him and Rod must be hanging out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 teller training is going good! a mix of security skills and customer service. at least this place has incentives for selling ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Kinnison Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Latest news. In order to stop legislators from VOting on bill, Democratic Senators have gone missing, and are in a "secure location" Legislators do not have a quarom and sent the police UNION out to get them Last estimate 10,000 protestors in the Capitol building, at least 30k outside. Schools will be shut down for a second day as teachers join protest. Zargon what you need to realize is that every state union worker (EMT, Maintanace, Teachers, etc) in Wisconsin has now taken a 10% pay cut (Their contracts have broken by Gov Walker), and now is going to be looking forward to another 20% cut. And quite possible in the next year lose ALL their benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Regime change!!! Bad night's sleep + long day (and night) at work = awesome. At least I have the entire weekend off, plus a holiday on Monday. Spent the day yesterday dealing with GF's dead car (starter motor, most likely...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Latest news. In order to stop legislators from VOting on bill, Democratic Senators have gone missing, and are in a "secure location" Legislators do not have a quarom and sent the police UNION out to get them Last estimate 10,000 protestors in the Capitol building, at least 30k outside. Schools will be shut down for a second day as teachers join protest. Zargon what you need to realize is that every state union worker (EMT, Maintanace, Teachers, etc) in Wisconsin has now taken a 10% pay cut (Their contracts have broken by Gov Walker), and now is going to be looking forward to another 20% cut. And quite possible in the next year lose ALL their benefits. you guys are so socialist that the STATE sets those guys salaries? thats insane. but I really think your GOV is an *******. He inherited a suplus and bombed it helping his rich friends, but Who TF elected him? he destroyed milwaukee county. Not that I can say much state wise, as we re-elected rod, but I never voted for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Women make no sense. I think I'm going to a monastery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Women make no sense. duh. I think I'm going to a monastery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Kinnison Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 you guys are so socialist that the STATE sets those guys salaries? thats insane. No.. insanity is when you don't even bother to negotiate with the Unions, and then take away their collective bargaining on top of a PERMAMENT 20% pay cut For the last 4 years almost every state union worker has forgone a pay raise (even cost of living adjustment) in order to keep the cost of their benefits the same. I severely doubt you can find an over paid State Union Employee. Teachers starting salary here is only around 25k, and it goes up to 50k. The whole idea of the "Lazy Union worker" is a myth perpetuated my Anti-union individuals. Show me an overpaid Union worker, and I will show you a guy who got injured on the job and instead of taking workmans comp he has gotten reclassified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikhnaton Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 oddly enough, the teachers who are protesting instead of teaching are still getting paid. and **** all those senators who think they can skip out on their job. in this economy, you have two choices to avoid bankruptcy: raise taxes or cut spending. we ALL have to tighten our belts and make sacrifices until we can get all this **** straightened out. EDIT: Nute has a girlfriend?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samnmax221 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 in this economy, you have two choices to avoid bankruptcy: raise taxes or cut spending. we ALL have to tighten our belts and make sacrifices until we can get all this **** straightened out. Wisconsin had a budget surplus going into this year. Governor Walker decided to give $140 million dollars in tax credit to special interest groups. He created the deficit and tried to use it to gut the public unions. Edit: Actually this was based on a badly written memo which didn't make it clear that the figure was before Wisconsin's debts were figured in. Walker still gave $140 million in tax credit to his buddies to go in effect in the next tax cycle. Furthermore the unions agreed to cuts of >$100 million which Walker refused to agree to unless they had their collective bargaining rights taken away. If it's so important to balance the budget he can go ahead and take the tax credit back instead of acting like a cronyist ****heal. If this means shutting the goddamn state down so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 back for the weekend...gotta get drivers license photo taken today! yay dmv ftw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildstar Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Ed, I saw a banner ad on these forums for Test Drive Unlimited 2...definitely a game you'd be interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Ed, I saw a banner ad on these forums for Test Drive Unlimited 2...definitely a game you'd be interested in. I saw it in the game store the other day too. I played the demo of the first one and wasn't crazy about it... but if there's a downloadable demo for this one, I'll give it a shot. Nute has a girlfriend??I noticed that a while back on his Facebook page. I think I noted the Universe shattering event here at the time. The ironic thing about the Wisconsin situation to me is that if you want to motivate all the existing union members to action, inspire new union membership and participation, and increase and strengthen union leadership forays in the political realm... Attacking the unions has always been the very best way of doing that. In the long run, Walker's action will most likely have the total opposite effect of what he is trying to accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuuki Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 did much of nothing today, cept for wegmans and a hair cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Kinnison Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 oddly enough, the teachers who are protesting instead of teaching are still getting paid. and **** all those senators who think they can skip out on their job. in this economy, you have two choices to avoid bankruptcy: raise taxes or cut spending. we ALL have to tighten our belts and make sacrifices until we can get all this **** straightened out. incorrect dear sir, you are badly misinformed on the subject. Since so many teachers called in, the schools were closed ,and the days will be made up by the end of the year. So in effect, the days the teacher were gone are snow days. The senators are doing their job. If they didn't the bill would have been voted on without any review, discussion, nor amendments added. FYI the State Unions are going to take a 20% pay cut according to the new bill. As of now the Unions have already said they are willing to take the pay cut, they ARE WILLING TO SACRIFICE, but they do not want their collective bargaining rights taken away The Unions have been willing to compromise, it is now the Governor who is not willing to negotiate, and instead is using this "crisis" in nothing more then an attempt to break the Unions power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr. Cracken Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Video out of Bahrain show Military Personnel opening up with machine gun fire on peaceful protesters and mourners of the dead, from during the first few days protests when police systematically and brutally began the crackdown. Libya: Orders given out to begin "purges" of doctors and dissidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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