Breast-feeding

[Dagobahn Eagle]

OK, let's get away from the deep, serious debates for a while.

 

To start off, I was brought up in a sheltered Norwegian liberal society. So it was not until I was in middle school that I picked up a book in Aberdeen (UK) entitled "the 100 stupidest things ever done". Now, in the mixture of real-life idiocy and ridiculous urban legends, I read a story about a speaker who delivered a zealous, heart-felt speech against breast-feeding. While that in itself qualifies for inclusion in said book, the punch-line was that the topic, slightly mistaken by our friend the speaker, was to be "press freedom". Oh well, happens to the best of us:D.

 

But either way, it was my first introduction into a very strange notion I had never in my 15 years on Earth even heard about. And when, in World Geography class in Houston, two 14-year old Christians, possibly straight into Westside HS from Dubya Catholic Middle School, showed clear signs of never having heard of breast-feeding before, I was finally convinced (! other viewers in civilized liberal countries (), put down any beverages in your hands before reading !):

 

There are people out there who seriously think breast-feeding is wrong. In fact, there's quite a few of them. Look here.

 

OK, so the cute society's a hoax, but take the poll at the end of the article.

 

Yes, it shouldn't be allowed.

31% or 3920.

 

No, it's perfectly natural.

66% or 8252.

 

Total answering poll: 12319

 

 

Can you beat that?

Though opinion is virtually unanimous among health professionals that breast milk is healthier for children than bottled milk or formulas, studies show that the majority of American women do not breast-feed their babies after leaving the hospital, even in the privacy of their homes. Public breast-feeding is rarer still. Many Americans admit that the very idea of it makes them nervous.

 

So, discussing breast-feeding. Personally, I know (no "believe" here) that it's good for the baby, natural, and best of all, not incestual or a ticket to Hell:p.

What about the rest of you?

[Tyrion]

The less liquid I suck out of my mother the better.

 

On a much more serious and less disturbing note, I think the people going against breast feeding are a bit ignorant. Breast milk is more or less the perfect food for babies that cannot be exactly reproduced in formula milk. I'd argue that formula would only be the best option of the mother was diseased and could infect her child, or if she was a professional mother who doesn't have time to breast feed her child(I'd argue that her priorities are messed up if she values her job over her child's welfare, but...).

[Samnmax221]

Breastmilk has been proven to be healthier than formula-feed. Although those cases of mothers who continue to breast-feed their kids past infancy are incredibly messed up.

[SkinWalker]

It's great on cornflakes.

[swphreak]

There's nothing wrong with breast-feeding, but it'd probably be better if people didn't do it publically. Both of my aunts breast-fed their kids while they were younger. There are also breast pumps to bottle breastmilk when the mother is not around. As long as newborns are getting breastmilk, whether through actual breast-feeding or bottle breastmilk, it's all good.

 

There are the exceptions for health problems, ect, for that, there's baby formula.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Actually, public breast-feeding is not seen in Norway (meh, we aren't perfect either).

 

But Heck yes, do it all you want. It doesn't harm anyone, so while I'm not really comfortable with the idea, I (and the rest of us) will get used to it.

[Darth Andrew]

Ironically, there was a huge discussion over at another forum that I participate in about the controversial cover of a parenting magazine.

 

Like StarWarsPhreak said, I don't care if mothers beast-feed or not, but I'd prefer it if they did it privately.

[Rogue15]

as long as it's done out of sight of public, i don't mind. but cmon, if i'm eating at a restraunt, and i happen to look across the room and notice some infant sucking it's mom, i'm gonna vomit. i may be biased though, as i hate children.

[El Sitherino]

Breast milk is more or less the perfect food for babies that cannot be exactly reproduced in formula milk.

Only true if you ignore the fact of a proper diet comes in to play here.

 

I have no issue against breast feeding, I just wish people wouldn't do it in public sometimes. It's not very sanitary, and it's just a little disrespectful.

 

No I don't find it disgusting or anything, just disrespectful and rather unsanitary.

[Ray Jones]

I support breast feeding all the way. And I don't think it is more unsanitary if done in public than anywhere else in "privacy". I mean you don't go and wash your breast everytime you feed your baby. Plus I don't know any woman, having a baby or not, who dip their boobs in dog ****.

 

Hm. I'm not sure about the "aspect of disrespectfulness" iSith is pointing out here.

 

It is a bit of a difficult issue, because if you're on a train or on a plane, whatever, you just cannot simply wait until you arrive or something. Feeding a baby is in general connected to some regularity, especially within the first 6 months or so. And we talk about a 2-4 hours period here. This, of course something different, if you're in a supermarket, or riding the underground train. Besides that, it's almost impossible to manage to be where exactly *noone else* is every time you have to feed your baby.

 

Personally, I cannot understand mothers who do it totally in public, while they're on the run, because it's better be done in a calm place, there is always a place to find where you can separate a bit from the trouble and people, even on a train or in a restaurant. Or you can go to the car, whatever. This does not depend only to breast feeding, though. It is important for both mother (or father) and child to have a relaxed situation

with a certain level of privacy for that. And since there is a regular base, you just have to think ahead a bit.

 

But I also cannot understand people who are disgusted by the idea they could see a mother feeding her baby. I mean it's not like they're throwing around her wobbling breasts yelling "Look at me, look at me" while holding up a wee and poo smelling brat. Usually you don't see any more skin/breast than in a common rap video. It's more likely to be less. Grow up people. Noone bothers you to stare at it. And if you (accidently) happen to see something.. so what? I rather take part on some nipple-baby-situation than seeing someone pissing on a tree.

 

As I see it, it is more disrespectful not to recognise the needs of the child and the situation of the mother that she cannot alway hide in the dark if she has to breastfeed her baby.

[swphreak]

Well, the mothers-on-the-go could always bottle their breastmilk if they're going to be busy or something. I don't find it disgusting for mothers to breast-feed in public, it's more of an awkward moment, and then if the mother is an asshole about people staring, that just pisses me off. You don't want people staring, don't do it in public.

[edlib]

I'd much rather see a woman breast-feeding a baby in public than changing it's diaper.

 

I don't get it: half the planet's population has breasts... the other half spend a huge chunk of their lives thumbing through magazines and on the Internet looking for pictures of naked ones... exactly where the hell is the problem?

 

Isn't the act of feeding an infant exactly the purpose that evolution and/or God (or your deity of choice...) created them in the first place???

 

We really do need to get over this repressed, puritanical hangup b.s. that we have about the natural functions of the human body.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

It's great on cornflakes.

Spam? From Skin? I never saw that one coming:p.

 

Ironically, there was a huge discussion over at another forum that I participate in about the controversial cover of a parenting magazine.

Only in America, hm?

 

I don't get it: half the planet's population has breasts... the other half spend a huge chunk of their lives thumbing through magazines and on the Internet looking for pictures of naked ones... exactly where the hell is the problem?

Exactly.

 

One mother who didn't like the cover explains she was concerned about her 13-year-old son seeing it.

 

"I shredded it," said Gayle Ash, of Belton, Texas, in a telephone interview. "A breast is a breast -- it's a sexual thing. He didn't need to see that."

That actually made me laugh.

 

It's not a sexual thing! Comparing it to what two lovers do is just not right. You might as well condemn kissing of babies in public because that, too, is something lovers do to each others.

 

Geez.

 

"Men are very visual," said Wheatley, of Amarillo, Texas. "When they see a woman's breast, they see a breast -- regardless of what it's being used for."

 

"Gross, I am sick of seeing a baby attached to a boob," wrote Lauren, a mother of a 4-month-old.

Wheatley? Other miss? Get boyfriends.

[Kurgan]

What are these people, in kindergarten?

 

Then again, that's probably an insult to most kindergarteners!

 

It's natural, it's good for the baby. It's not dirty, sexual, or wrong, and doing it in the bathroom is MORE unsanitary. Plus breast pumping is time consuming and cumbersome. Formula simply isn't as complete nutrition for babies.

 

Anyway, with the outfits I see some women wearing in public, seeing a portion of one breast with a baby covering up the nipple is probably MORE modest. At least that's what breasts are FOR. If people get grossed out and can't help staring, that's their own hangup, it needn't be the law.

[Pho3nix]

I do get a little disturbed if someone breastfeeds in public somehow I can't help to watch. It's hypnotizing.

[CapNColostomy]

Wheatley? Other miss? Get boyfriends.

 

She got knocked up somehow...

 

Anyways, this is one of those issues, that to me, is a complete non-issue. So some people don't want to breast feed whether it be in public or private. Who gives a $#!+? If it were her body during the early stages of pregnancy when abortion was an option, it stands to reason that now that she's delivered, it's still her body. Some women simply don't have the time, or don't produce enough milk to bother with breast feeding.

 

As far as breast feeding in public goes, I don't really care one way or the other. Lactating nipples with a baby attached to them don't get me chubbied up.

[Jae Onasi]

I'm probably one of the few on the forums who's actually nursed an infant, so I'll chime in.

 

First, the breast vs bottle debate--it can be as vicious an argument as some evolution/creation arguments can get.

 

Here's my take--if you can nurse a baby, great. It's better. Am I going to get hung up about it and go La Leche League nutsoid if you can't? No. Some women can't for a variety of reasons--due to types of medications they take, can't produce enough milk, whatever, and millions of kids have grown up on formula and have done just fine. However, breastmilk has a lot of health benefits and is a whole lot cheaper--don't know if you've priced formula lately, but it's really expensive. Even if a mom can only nurse while on maternity leave or even tries it just for a few days, that's good.

We ended up doing both with our kids--I couldn't make enough, so we supplemented with formula, and it worked out fine. My kids are healthy and happy. The benefit was that Jimbo took the evening feeding with the babies and got to bond with them, too, and I got some much needed rest to recover from the surgery. Nursing involves about 30-45 minutes each session, every 2-4 hours. That 2-4 hours includes the time spent feeding. This means that when the baby's just newborn and up every few hours even at night, a mom's lucky to get more than 3 hours of sleep at any one time. It's a huge challenge to recover from birthing (especially c-sections, which are considered major surgery) and feed a baby every 2 hours around the clock (particularly the first month or so) with chronic lack of sleep.

 

Pumping--it doesn't work as well as the baby does at extracting milk. It can be done at work when a mom's away from the baby, but it takes a lot of time because it has to be done every 2-4 hours and it takes at least 15 minutes and more like a good half hour each time. I didn't have the most sympathetic boss in the world, and I didn't have any other job options at the time, and if I hadn't worked, we wouldn't have had a roof over our heads. Sometimes we moms have to work, and formula is not baby poison.

 

Breastfeeding in public--is no less sanitary than breastfeeding at home. It's not like they got dirty under a shirt just because I happened to be in public. I used hand sanitizer for my hands, however, if I didn't have a chance to wash them first.

 

When the baby's hungry, the baby's hungry, and breastfed babies eat more often than formula-fed babies. And when they have growth spurts, they eat even more frequently than normal. Even if you have every intention of being home all the time to feed baby, sometimes it doesn't work out that way. Traffic may delay you. Doctor's appointments could run long. Service at the restaurant could be too slow. Any of these could mean that I was still in public when the baby needed to eat. When the babies were hungry, I fed them. There's no mute button on a baby's cry--if they need care, you give it. If there was a women's lounge with a comfortable chair, I'd go there. If not, I nursed wherever I happened to be at and could get comfortable. However, I used a light blanket to cover things up. I didn't like to have 30 year old fruitcakes staring at my chest while I tried to nurse in public. Even with a blanket, I had a guy stare at me one time, until I stared back at him long enough that he decided wisely to go do something else. You see more exposure with most bikinis than you do with a nursing baby anyway even if you don't use a blanket.

Just so you know, a good percentage of women view guys who stare at them while breastfeeding as threats, because we see that as really weird. Weird people make moms with babies (and many others) very nervous, and it kicks in a maternal protective instinct that makes us want to whack people on the head to get them away from us. The rest really are p*ssed. If you truly want to watch breastfeeding, rent a video on it from La Leche League.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

...And the debate is over.

 

Sometimes it takes a chick, apparently:cool:.

[Jae Onasi]

Well, I was amused to see a bunch of males debating the issue....

[milo]

Well, Jae made pretty much every argument there is for breast-feeding .....but there was one thing I noticed that people didn't mention: Breastfeeding is great for the babies immune system. Babies that breast-feed are much less vulnerable to infections, the flu, and more serious diseases as well. They are also more protected against allergies, asthma, and eczema.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

Well, Jae made pretty much every argument there is for breast-feeding .....but there was one thing I noticed that people didn't mention: Breastfeeding is great for the babies immune system. Babies that breast-feed are much less vulnerable to infections, the flu, and more serious diseases as well. They are also more protected against allergies, asthma, and eczema.

For ~6 months.

[milo]

For ~6 months.

Better than nothing.

[Jae Onasi]

There's evidence of a lower incidence of diabetes and apparently SIDS among those who were breastfed. Letter in British Journal of Medicine. I'd have to find an actual article for the full text that they reference, but most of the breastfeeding books talk about this.

 

Still, I don't want to make it sound like women who formula feed are awful mothers, because they're not. Lots and lots of babies have been formula fed and grew up just fine. My kids made it through the baby stage just fine on formula--we had to do both. Sometimes health/medication issues, milk supply problems, and life issues come up that make it nearly impossible. If a mom is so frustrated trying to learn how to nurse a baby that it's making her crazy and affecting her relationship with her newborn, then for heaven's sake go for the formula. Nursing a baby is not intuitive, and it's not something you can learn from a book, trust me.

 

In the breast/bottle debate, almost nothing is ever said about doing both, btw. It doesn't have to be an either/or thing, though there are die-hards on both sides of the argument who would never accept the opposing view.

[El Sitherino]

Breastfeeding in public--is no less sanitary than breastfeeding at home. It's not like they got dirty under a shirt just because I happened to be in public.

No, but a woman could have some sort of bug/infection/virus/etc. that could slip.

 

A lot of people don't take very great care in their sanitation habits, so I view it as an unnecessary risk.

[Jae Onasi]

Women can't stay cloistered after having a baby, and shouldn't. We have to get groceries, go to the doctor's office (a number of times, especially the first couple of months), that kind of stuff. Unless you live like the boy in the plastic bubble, mom and baby are going to get exposed to things via people who visit. You can't and shouldn't ban people from visiting, because new moms need all the help they can get. That doesn't mean we should be stupid and hand newborns over to people who have the flu or take them into hospitals where they could get exposed to heavens-knows-what, but you can't stay locked up in the house the whole time.

 

Viruses and such--most are passed by direct contact or air droplets (like someone sneezed on something or coughed). They don't pass through breastmilk. Breastmilk is essentially sterile. If mom is sick, the baby has an equal chance of catching something whether breast- or bottle-fed, and possibly less while breastfed because the baby gets some of the immunities the mom builds while recovering from a cold.

 

In a lot of third world countries, women are encourged to breastfeed because it's safer than mixing possibly contaminated water into the powdered formula.

 

I took care of sanitation issues with my hands, El Sithy, and I washed them after. Other people may have sanitation issues, but they weren't the ones who were in contact with me, just the baby.

I'm almost afraid to ask this, but what do you think we women are doing in public to make our _chests_ unsanitary? That's a rhetorical question, btw. And yes, I know the images can be very amusing....

 

Everything's tucked inside a bra and under a shirt. I can't think of a way that they'd get dirty and unsanitary that way, whether at home or in public. And I sure wasn't doing anything with my chest that would make other things in public unsanitary, and on the very unusual chance that a drop of milk got somewhere, it's, as I said, essentially sterile. It's not going to contaminate anything. Milk really only comes out when the baby nurses, anyway, and any leaks get absorbed by little disposable cotton pads so clothes stay clean. The only thing I did differently when in public was to put a blanket over me and the baby so I didn't get exposed and therefore get a bunch of stares. Otherwise, the mechanics of feeding the baby were the same no matter where I was at.

 

Millions of babies have been fed in public, either breast- or bottle-fed, and didn't have ill effects from the experience.