Karpyshyn: KotOR and TSL "wouldn't make compelling novels"

[Pavlos]

Source

 

The Escapist has published a new article written by Andrew Webster which discusses the difficulties of creating novels based on video games with contributions from freelance game journalist Troy Goodfellow and BioWare writer Drew Karpyshyn.

 

"The Baldur's Gate novels, for example, are epically laughable. None approach literature, and I can think of few that I would recommend to somebody who wasn't already deeply invested in the game."

[jrrtoken]

Well, a book adaption of KotOR obviously wouldn't work: Karpyshyn can only write sub-standard fanfics.

[Q]

While I haven't read the companion novel for Planescape: Torment, I would like think that it would be an exception, if rather redundant, as the game itself was basically an interactive novel.

[Chevron 7 locke]

I think maybe a prequel novel to KOTOR would work nicely.

[Sabretooth]

Like hell they wouldn't make good novels. They'd barely make a coherent film, let alone a novel. I don't even really see why you need a novelization of everything in the world. Can't most people just watch the movie/play the game and appreciate the story?

[Char Ell]

An interesting read. I think the same principle generally applies to movies based on games. I believe it extraordinarily difficult to combine non-interactive storytelling with interactive storytelling that actually provides multiple choices for the player.

 

I was surprised that nobody seems to have caught this yet:

Eventually the process came full circle after Karpyshyn wrote a novel set during the same time period. This book, which takes place prior to the events of Knights of the Old Republic, expanded upon the mysterious character of Darth Bane.

Of course many of us know the events in the two Darth Bane books Drew Karpyshyn wrote occur well after the events of the Knights of the Old Republic game.

[Adavardes]

Most game-based novels tend to be pretty terrible anyway, so based on that, I'm not sure I'd want two of my favourite games of all time sullied by novelisations.

[TKA-001]

I'd welcome novelizations, because that would finally canonize the two games' player characters and give them actual personalities, flaws, and other basic parts of a character that they lack. It might even discourage KOTOR Fan Fiction in general, as well.

[Astor]

I'd welcome novelizations, because that would finally canonize the two games' player characters and give them actual personalities, flaws, and other basic parts of a character that they lack. It might even discourage KOTOR Fan Fiction in general, as well.

 

...Or push it in the complete opposite direction, with hordes of fan-fic writers screaming for the author's blood because they didn't consider their own half-cooked fantasies.

[TKA-001]

...Or push it in the complete opposite direction, with hordes of fan-fic writers screaming for the author's blood because they didn't consider their own half-cooked fantasies.

Even more entertaining.

[Salzella]

yes, good 'cynical internet veteran' act. however, i fail to see how overriding each person's idiosyncratic view of a character and discouraging KOTOR fan-fiction in general is a good thing?

[TKA-001]

i fail to see how overriding each person's idiosyncratic view of a character and discouraging KOTOR fan-fiction in general is a good thing?

Technically speaking, the overriding of each person's "idiosyncratic view" is already in effect with the canonization of Revan and the Exile's gender and alignments, but since LA has refrained from specifying anything else about them, there wasn't much point in doing so in the first place if they weren't going to go into their actual personalities and traits.

[Darth Avlectus]

Well, a book adaption of KotOR obviously wouldn't work: Karpyshyn can only write sub-standard fanfics.

 

LOL. The number of STUPID errors in rule of two...I can only shake my head.

 

I think maybe a prequel novel to KOTOR would work nicely.

 

I think that's already being done based upon the KOTOR comics. BTW, I was right at least about WHO Darth Sion was: Lucien Draay.

 

I'm not sure if Haazen will become Darth Hayze (maybe--which would require some things to be explained all within the conclusion) or if he will become Darth Nihilus. I'm not sure yet.

 

Like hell they wouldn't make good novels. They'd barely make a coherent film, let alone a novel. I don't even really see why you need a novelization of everything in the world. Can't most people just watch the movie/play the game and appreciate the story?

 

Apparently, some people can't. It kind of depends on what multiple media is made after.

 

...Or push it in the complete opposite direction, with hordes of fan-fic writers screaming for the author's blood because they didn't consider their own half-cooked fantasies.

 

 

I'd welcome novelizations, because that would finally canonize the two games' player characters and give them actual personalities, flaws, and other basic parts of a character that they lack. It might even discourage KOTOR Fan Fiction in general, as well.

 

Why would you discourage genral creativity? True there might be a lot of half baked...crap... out there and much more of others that are mundane and overly subjective. Some of it is good though. Some of it is *great*.

Even if it is one-off stories and not the actual thing.

 

Also there was a fanfic by Jae Onasi I particularly liked. The one with very well described sword play and had Jolee Bindo in it...I can't recall the exact one but it did win some award or something. (Jae, would you please do me the honor? )

 

I have tried those multi path/ multi ending books out there.....they only hold so much re-readability. I remember a super mario world novel that was like that. It didn't captivate me at 10 years old and it probably wouldn't get me now.

 

KOTOR was a great game and I think it ought to remain in the game realm.

Books and movies based on games or vice versa tend to not be much more than mediocre. Mario Bros. the movie was...okay. However it really diverged from the original story. I understand a whole need to make it scientifically close or else it would have just seemed like a corny kids movie, but it still only goes to show that multiple iterations of anything rarely if ever are "great" or "compelling".

 

Whereas a story of reality, or largely reality based, to begin with seems to never lose hold. Romance of the 3 kingdoms.

[Rtas Vadum]

The only game novels i'd read would be the Halo ones. Those weren't that bad, considering the fact that the game doesn't have these hard to work around game mechanics. KoTOR, however, has a few things that if put into a movie or even just in writing outside of the game, have to be done in a certain way, because if not, it doesn't exactly cater to those who haven't played the game, or simply doesn't make much sense. Such as if you try to mention the Exile regaining her force connection, you can't really act like the exile would know how to preform a new (or a just learned)force power immediately or perfectly, like the game lets you do.

 

I've been doing a TSL fic for awhile, and as i said, trying to write it just as the game plays, doesn't fit a real situation. Not to mention that if someone ever does write a novelization of the game(which is unlikely, since it probably would have been done by now), or write and film a movie, they would have to cut a lot of the levels out, because sometimes the obvious and disgustingly easy way around problems is impossible in the game, but it would make the movie more interesting. The only other problem is the alignment issue.

[Darth Avlectus]

The only game novels i'd read would be the Halo ones. Those weren't that bad, considering the fact that the game doesn't have these hard to work around game mechanics.

[/Quote] There are some one-off spinoffs for mass effect as well, not too particularly bad. Actually, pretty good.

KoTOR, however, has a few things that if put into a movie or even just in writing outside of the game, have to be done in a certain way, because if not, it doesn't exactly cater to those who haven't played the game, or simply doesn't make much sense. Such as if you try to mention the Exile regaining her force connection, you can't really act like the exile would know how to preform a new (or a just learned)force power immediately or perfectly, like the game lets you do.

 

I've been doing a TSL fic for awhile, and as i said, trying to write it just as the game plays, doesn't fit a real situation. Not to mention that if someone ever does write a novelization of the game (which is unlikely, since it probably would have been done by now), or write and film a movie, they would have to cut a lot of the levels out, because sometimes the obvious and disgustingly easy way around problems is impossible in the game, but it would make the movie more interesting. The only other problem is the alignment issue.

 

True, games do eliminate much of the wait.

 

I would guess it depended upon the writer's/producer's formula.

There is one thing that might determine the outcome of such, were they ever to be made: lucas' formula of redemption. Sticking to it as well as not each owuld grow a whole garden of pros and cons.

 

All in all, I'm not entirely sure it would do the games justice-especially considering K2 was incomplete to begin with.

[Adavardes]

The only game novels i'd read would be the Halo ones. Those weren't that bad,

 

Oh my GOD.

[Darth333]

Save the possible rare (and eventual - as I have yet to come across it) exception, novel or movies adaptations of a game always seemed like and easy money grabbing business to me.

 

I hardly see what's the interest of watching or reading a (usually bland) movie/novel about a game I've already played (and which normally involved interactivity - and choices in the case of CPRGs- )...give me some creativity and quality writing please...

[Litofsky]

Please, for the love of the Old Republic, leave them unnovelized. Not only would it destroy (some) of the KotOR fanfics, but any slight misstep, mistake, or anything that wold inaccurately describe a place or character would have thousands of fans screaming bloody murder at the author. And I don't want any of my Revan/Exile perceptions altered (not that anyone else does, I would imagine).

 

Can't most people just watch the movie/play the game and appreciate the story?

Not any more. In a society where everything is accessible at the click of a button, why should we have to waste our time deriving meaning from a movie, or something else that isn't precisely spelled out for us? [/societal rant]

[Salzella]

Technically speaking, the overriding of each person's "idiosyncratic view" is already in effect with the canonization of Revan and the Exile's gender and alignments, but since LA has refrained from specifying anything else about them, there wasn't much point in doing so in the first place if they weren't going to go into their actual personalities and traits.

 

the canonisatin of those two was, in Leland Chee's words, out of editorial necessity and, particularly in the exile's case, is vague at best. details are a little more concrete on Revan, but even so, it's still easy to decide who the characters are for oneself since the only context that matters where the characters are defined are in the games themselves, where it is entirely customisable. the gender of those two is only defined in the wookiepedia entry, and for other similiar purposes, and has no real bearing on someone's interpretation of the game. novelisations, however, as an official companionship to the game, or whatever, would dictate those attributes, meaning the choice of the gamer no longer has any real relevance.

 

i'm not sure this makes sense, but i hope you get the gist of what i'm saying...

[Darth Avlectus]

Please, for the love of the Old Republic, leave them unnovelized. Not only would it destroy (some) of the KotOR fanfics, but any slight misstep, mistake, or anything that wold inaccurately describe a place or character would have thousands of fans screaming bloody murder at the author. And I don't want any of my Revan/Exile perceptions altered (not that anyone else does, I would imagine).

 

Not any more. In a society where everything is accessible at the click of a button, why should we have to waste our time deriving meaning from a movie, or something else that isn't precisely spelled out for us? [/societal rant]

 

Thank you.

 

I assume that last part was sarcasm? If you are serious I will try to explain why, but I really think it goes without saying that such modus operandi is unfulfilling to say the least. On top of a host of other undesirable things to have as traits.

 

 

the canonisatin of those two was, in Leland Chee's words, out of editorial necessity and, particularly in the exile's case, is vague at best. details are a little more concrete on Revan, but even so, it's still easy to decide who the characters are for oneself since the only context that matters where the characters are defined are in the games themselves, where it is entirely customisable. the gender of those two is only defined in the wookiepedia entry, and for other similiar purposes, and has no real bearing on someone's interpretation of the game. novelisations, however, as an official companionship to the game, or whatever, would dictate those attributes, meaning the choice of the gamer no longer has any real relevance.

 

i'm not sure this makes sense, but i hope you get the gist of what i'm saying...

 

I think I generally do. You're referring to the Darth Bane novels, yes?

 

The sub-series renders only a few things invalid with regard to gamer's choice.

 

There is a whole other host of things that are inconsistent, though. However, I did like how planet Tython was made canon in rule of two.

 

Also, I think in path of destruction, Kas'im was intentionally a blademaster twilek as an ode to both:

A) mace windu after the prequel trilogy was made

b) conceptual sketches of a male twilek originally called Mace Windy--before the conceptual backgroud story was made into the prequel trilogy.

[Tommycat]

The only games that work well as novelizations are those without a central main character(as far as I have seen). The main reason is that when playing the game, you come up with your own idea of how that person should react. After that, any other person's interpretation on that is therefore wrong in your eyes.

[Jae Onasi]

Also there was a fanfic by Jae Onasi I particularly liked. The one with very well described sword play and had Jolee Bindo in it...I can't recall the exact one but it did win some award or something. (Jae, would you please do me the honor? )

The Adventures of Jolee Bindo, which I need to get back to revising. It received the CEC Reader's choice and Editor's pick a couple years back, and I am grateful for those honors.

 

I'd love to see a professional author do something with Jolee--that character has tremendous potential for this terrific combination of action/adventure along with hilarity with his quips.

[Bee Hoon]

...Or push it in the complete opposite direction, with hordes of fan-fic writers screaming for the author's blood because they didn't consider their own half-cooked fantasies.

Guilty as charged

[Miltiades]

Thank you for telling us the obvious, Karpyshyn.

[Astor]

To be clear, i'm not saying all fan-fics are bad. It's just a lot seem to be self-insertion fantasies, and many authors refuse to believe any alternative to their own versions of the story.

 

That's the problem I can see with KOTOR novels.