jonathan7 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 AdavardesA wonderful philosophy, truly, but you're assuming I'm never positive about anything. I do enjoy some optimistic pleasures in life, but, I'm sorry, marriage is just not one of those things to inspire optimistic pleasure in me, because I have personal experiences in observance of relationships ending because of marriage. Typically, the two individuals have been loving and committed as they can be, but it doesn't matter. Marriage ends relationships, and the only relationships you hear about lasting, save for a few exceptions, are between people that just learned how to put up with one another. Yeah, that sounds like some really worthwhile ****. Tell me where I can sign up, Mr. Sunshine. My own saw on advice; "Good advice is a statement of fact or a question that causes a person to answer their own problem. Bad advice is giving your opinion which is irrelevant as we all have our own paths to take" Most of the marriages I know, have been long and successful, and of my peers are happy. Should I infer anything from that, or look at wider statistics? If two people love each other and want to get married, I fail to see why that would doom them to failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 My own saw on advice; "Good advice is a statement of fact or a question that causes a person to answer their own problem. Bad advice is giving your opinion which is irrelevant as we all have our own paths to take" Most of the marriages I know, have been long and successful, and of my peers are happy. Should I infer anything from that, or look at wider statistics? If two people love each other and want to get married, I fail to see why that would doom them to failure. I agree. Just because the statistics suck doesn't mean that I think that marriage is the end of a relationship. Especially because I'm religious. _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adavardes Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 1. How old are your "peers", and how long have the marriages you know of been lasting? 2. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_14.pdf The statistics on divorce rates are the testament in themselves. I'm not buying that the majority of married couples are happy go lucky for very long. And you have to factor in the longevity of the marriage, as the longer time goes by, the better chance of divorce. It's pointless, and ultimately turns something that should just be about love and commitment into a legal obligation that you can't get out of. Yep. Totally makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrrtoken Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Marriage is perfectly fine with me, however, there are people who should most certainly not get hitched. By that, I mean, the domestic violence and child abuse that may develop from a rushed or ill-planned marriage. Hence why I still believe that a psychological and mental evaluation must be mandatory in order to obtain a marriage license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 I agree. Just because the statistics suck doesn't mean that I think that marriage is the end of a relationship. Especially because I'm religious. _EW_ Indeedy. Lies, damned lies, and then there are statistics, as I will shortly show. 1. How old are your "peers", and how long have the marriages you know of been lasting? James and Hannah; married at 18, been happily married for the last 7 years. Ed and Charli, married at 23, been married 5 years Tom and Becca, Married at 21, happily married 3 years etc etc I could then say, my mum and dad, 28 years and going, family friends Jo and Alistair 31 years and going, my Aunt and Uncle 26 years and going, really I could go on... 2. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_14.pdf The statistics on divorce rates are the testament in themselves. I'm not buying that the majority of married couples are happy go lucky for very long. And you have to factor in the longevity of the marriage, as the longer time goes by, the better chance of divorce. It's pointless, and ultimately turns something that should just be about love and commitment into a legal obligation that you can't get out of. Yep. Totally makes sense. These are misleading for the following reason, where are the statistics for Boyfriend/Girlfriend (or same-sex) breakups? There won't be any to compare against, so you can't actually place an inference into the effect marriage has on relationship success. Furthermore, I'd have to disagree, for several reasons. Firstly, just because something doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to others. I'm not going to tell you, that you should or shouldn't get married, so why does it matter what others do? I would assert in statistics, that if Boyfriend - Girlfriend relationships will be more frequent and also have a higher statistical likely hood of ending, in a shorter period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pho3nix Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 This is an interesting topic since we were just discussing marriage the other day with my friends, and a day later one of them found out his parents might get a divorce. If two people love each other and want to get married, I fail to see why that would doom them to failure. I don't know about the statistics, but in my cynical world view life happens, people drift away, you meet someone new who's fresh and exciting, feelings come and go -- and before you know it someone ends up cheating or hurt. For me there is no such thing as "happily ever after" since we evolve throughout our lives and I honestly believe that most* are not content with having just one partner for the rest of their life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Yeah, that sounds like some really worthwhile ****. Tell me where I can sign up, Mr. Sunshine. Yep. Totally makes sense. I think you need to stop being so rude to J7 - he's really done nothing flamebait worthy, so stop attacking him. Also, your argument is specious. You can't use statistics to back up your argument when your argument is "All marriages are unhappy." Bias is a bad thing. That is all. _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 I don't know about the statistics, but in my cynical world view life happens, people drift away, you meet someone new who's fresh and exciting, feelings come and go -- and before you know it someone ends up cheating or hurt. For me there is no such thing as "happily ever after" since we evolve throughout our lives and I honestly believe that most* are not content with having just one partner for the rest of their life. I would have to argue that this is because of a wrong view of love. How do you know if someone loves you? Is it when you are easy to love, and the feelings come easily? Or is it when your an absolute pain in the bum, and the feelings aren't there but they come through for you? J7's selected quotes on love "Love is not affectionate feeling, but a steady wish for the loved person's ultimate good as far as it can be obtained." -- C.S. Lewis (Answers to Questions on Christianity) "Love may forgive all infirmities and love still in spite of them: but Love cannot cease to will their removal." - C.S. Lewis - The Problem of Pain “Love is patient; love is kind and envies no one. Love is never boastful, nor conceited, nor rude; never selfish, not quick to take offense. There is nothing love cannot face; there is no limit to its faith, its hope, and endurance. In a word, there are three things that last forever: faith, hope, and love; but the greatest of them all is love.” - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 So is love a feeling, or an action? I think it's a bit of both, but it is proven in the action. In regards marriage, how to marriages do sour? I would have to argue by not doing the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth333 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 To me it's pointless unless you want the legal consequences that come with marriage in your jurisdiction or if you feel that your religion absolutely mandates it (officially I'm Roman catholic but I couldn't care less about the outdated "rules"...I should probably be excommunicated by now lol...to me the important message of Christ is love, not the paperwork ). Anyway, if only religious marriage would not necessarily equal civil marriage under the law (at least where I live)... If I love someone, I don't need marriage to show it, officialize it or whatever but I can understand that it can be important to some people. As for the legal aspects of common life, I prefer a custom contract which would be more adapted to the couples' situation. (And screw the fancy white dress! I'm probably the least romantic girl in the world ) J7's selected quotes on love :xp I don't think marriage is a requirement to make that applicable. Love != marriage to me (but not incompatible of course ). Marriage is not necessary for a successful and long-lasting relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralPloKoon Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I think Marriage is very worthwhile as long as its with the right person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 How do you know if someone loves you? Is it when you are easy to love, and the feelings come easily? Or is it when your an absolute pain in the bum, and the feelings aren't there but they come through for you? Well, that's my test of any relationship. They always fail it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I think Marriage is very worthwhile as long as its with the right person. I agree. My parents have been married for 30 years now....so I have noticed many positive things about marriage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Rider Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I would argue the problem with statistics is that they count the number of marriages and divorces. They don't count how many of those are by the same person, my father's cousin has been married 9 times, it could be up to 10 now. I know many successful marriages, far more than I know failed marriages, and we're talking 10-year+ marriages, not day-old ones. Could they fail? Sure, but a 10 year marriage is IMO, pretty successful, and people change over time. I would say that marriage is a good thing most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 @Jonathan: they did a survey in Norway some time ago concerning the likehood of breaking up, I'll see if I can find it, but IIRC the diference was only about 2-3%. Of course, this is in a country were relatively (they still make up a majority) few people marry, so it might not apply elsewere. Myself, I think that since income is as inequall as it is, marriage makes a lot of sence if only to give your love the rights she deserve. Of course, you could just write a contract, but many seems to prefer mariage for some reason. Yes, they often fail, but so what? would it be better if they broke up without marrying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Rider Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Myself' date=' I think that as income is as inequall as it is, marriage makes a lot of sence if only to give your love the rights she deserve. Of course, you could just write a contract, but many seems to prefer mariage for some reason. Yes, they often fail, but so what? would it be better if they broke up without marrying?[/quote'] I'd get upset at the sexism if I wasn't so tired. My mom is by and far the breadwinner in our family. The same is true for 2 of my aunts and their families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 It's plainly obvious that marriage is not everyone's cup of tea. That's fine - it's their choice not to get married after all, but I do think that marriage, while not necessary for a strong, loving relationship, is for many people a confirmation of such a relationship. I know many people who married for love, and are still together at least a decade afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I'd get upset at the sexism if I wasn't so tired. My mom is by and far the breadwinner in our family. The same is true for 2 of my aunts and their families. Yet numbers don't lie, and while I don't like them, they are there, so you might as well make the best of the situation while you try to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee Hoon Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 officially I'm Roman catholic but I couldn't care less about the outdated "rules"...Ditto I have to say I'm old-fashioned when it comes to such things- I do want to get married, if only because I want to prance around in a flouncy white dress it's just a way for the couple to show each other that they are srs bsns about spending their lives with each other. I don't think that the statistics should affect a person's decision as to whether or not they want to get married, as no two relationships are the same, and in the end it's between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I will marry if I really hate someone. /ayn rand //but i don't think of you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Marriage; Pointless or Worthwhile? [/Quote] Yes. If you want a more specific answer, I’m going to need more specific fact about the couple. Depending on the people involved then marriage may be pointless or it could be worthwhile. I’m no expert as I’ve never even been engaged, I’ve been close a few times. After reading this thread last night I could not think of a reply, so I turned up Bon Jovi’s “Living in Sin” and pulled out an engagement ring I purchase 20 years ago. (I wonder how much it is worth) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I wonder how much it is worth Depends on wether you get paid for parting with it;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Depends on wether you get paid for parting with it;) Well I know it would be worth a butt kicking if I tried to give it to another woman and she found out it was purchase for someone else. I'm not great at understanding most women, but it does not take great understanding to figure that one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Weddings are just not as important as they used to be. Given that we are in a recession and that the divorce rate is so high, it makes more sense for a small-scale celebration... at least one that doesn't go into the thousands of dollars into the cake alone. My own sister is engaged, but there is not likely going to be much of an event other than maybe a party with direct families. My answer is that marriage is definitely worthwhile so long as the events and financial obligations are not made in excess. The gains and the recognition of being married to another are worth whatever else comes with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltiades Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I don't see why a marriage would cause problems, on the other hand, I don't know why it'd be necessary. In my opinion, if two people love each other, they don't need to prove it with marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Marriage does have certain attributes, such as spousal confidentiality and financial incentives. It's not required or even a good reason to get married, but there are certain benefits in the legal system that come with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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