Darth_Yuthura Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 A forum has rules and regulations that all who post on it have agreed to follow before they signed up. When someone violates those rules, a moderator can and should step in to enforce those policies... but where does lying, or an implication fit in to all that? Obviously a direct insult to another member would most definitely violate the rules of a forum and that member deserves whatever sanctions the moderator believes is appropriate. The issue I see is that the majority of such violations are not so direct. When is an insult considered an insult? If someone feels harassed, is that the point where a moderator should step in? If I posted a thread such as this, but did not give any names, would the moderators of this site regard this as an insult to them? Where does lying get dealt with? Moderators could use their own good judgment, but they have no idea what another person knows and can't sanction someone for lying, or can they? Should they? When someone lies, that is not in itself offensive to a particular member or moderator, but it is spamming at the very least. The problem is that no one should expect a moderator to go out of their way to figure out whether or not someone is being deceitful on the forum they maintain, but a reasonable deduction could be made without a moderator having to go to great effort. This thread is not set up as an insult, but it likely would be interpreted as such by specific individuals. If in the event that it does, it is NOT intended to harass. I simply want to get a better understanding as to where interpretation and deceit falls into violating the rules of a specific forum. Moved to Kavars -- j7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Why the hell would you post this in Ahto? Kavar's, at the least, but preferably in the Feedback section. Oh, and for the record your post makes no sense to me. What are you asking? Whether or not someone should be punished for lying? We're not 5 years old anymore. How can the staff know when someone's lying? How can anyone know when someone online is lying? House: Everybody lies. _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 When is an insult considered an insult? If someone feels harassed, is that the point where a moderator should step in? An insult would, obviously, be considered as such when the person who is targeted feels victimised, or finds the comment offensive. If I posted a thread such as this, but did not give any names, would the moderators of this site regard this as an insult to them? I would suggest that if you do actually have problems with the staff, you take it to the Contact Staff Board in Help and Feedback. That way it can be dealt with in a discreet manner. But of course, this is assuming that you do have a problem with the staff, but anything relating to staff complaints would be better handled there. Where does lying get dealt with? Moderators could use their own good judgment, but they have no idea what another person knows and can't sanction someone for lying, or can they? Should they? The problem with the internet is there's rarely a concrete way of verifying anything anyone says on it - the inherent anonymity involved means you really could make up anything. When someone lies, that is not in itself offensive to a particular member or moderator, but it is spamming at the very least.[/Quote] There'd need to concrete proof of lying first, and whether it is 'spam' or not would be another matter, dependent on the subject of the thread, and content of the post. AK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 FTR: Lying is not inherently spam. _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I do recall lying about my age a few times, until I decided "Eh, who cares, I'll tell the truth." Lying about age is probably the most common thing I see lied about, also because I used to do it. But now the truth is that I'm 15 year old freshman without a job who can't drive yet, not a 16-year old sophomore with a job at burger king and a driver's license. It's hard to keep up with such a lie if you're not an adult anyways, plus lying about age is kind of pointless, because a good forum 'judges' you by how you behave, not how old you are. Now, adults lying about being younger than they are on a forum, now that's just weird, but very rare. People like to lie in order to try to benefit themselves. If they say they're older than they are, they probably hope to get respect due to their alleged age. If its a blatant lie or a half-truth in a debate, that's far more serious. Eventually though, the lie will stop 'benefitting' you if you slip up with an inconsistency. In the long run, lies only hurt your own reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 This post represents entirely my opinion and not Lucas Forums, nor the rest of the staff. A forum has rules and regulations that all who post on it have agreed to follow before they signed up. When someone violates those rules, a moderator can and should step in to enforce those policies... but where does lying, or an implication fit in to all that? Unless the lying is directed at another member, (i.e. lying about them), as I understand the rules does not break the rules, regardless of my own feelings about the ethicalness of it. Obviously a direct insult to another member would most definitely violate the rules of a forum and that member deserves whatever sanctions the moderator believes is appropriate. The issue I see is that the majority of such violations are not so direct. When is an insult considered an insult? If someone feels harassed, is that the point where a moderator should step in? If I posted a thread such as this, but did not give any names, would the moderators of this site regard this as an insult to them? If a post is inflammatory towards someone then the mods will step in, you can also use the report post function, if you feel harassed. No, I and I suspect the rest of the staff don't feel offended by this. Where does lying get dealt with? Moderators could use their own good judgment, but they have no idea what another person knows and can't sanction someone for lying, or can they? Should they? See above, lets say someone on the boards lied about being someone famous, and are shown up to be lying, I don't think they have broken any rules. When someone lies, that is not in itself offensive to a particular member or moderator, but it is spamming at the very least. The problem is that no one should expect a moderator to go out of their way to figure out whether or not someone is being deceitful on the forum they maintain, but a reasonable deduction could be made without a moderator having to go to great effort. The problem with the internet is there's rarely a concrete way of verifying anything anyone says on it - the inherent anonymity involved means you really could make up anything. QFT This thread is not set up as an insult, but it likely would be interpreted as such by specific individuals. If in the event that it does, it is NOT intended to harass. I simply want to get a better understanding as to where interpretation and deceit falls into violating the rules of a specific forum Perhaps something has passed me by, but who is lying? Hope that clarifies a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 This wasn't MEANT to go to feedback. Moderators are the supreme power of Lucasforums. They can do anything they like because they manage the site. It's as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 This wasn't MEANT to go to feedback. Moderators are the supreme power of Lucasforums. They can do anything they like because they manage the site. It's as simple as that. To be fair, the tone and content of the thread wasn't all too clear - it's hard to tell whether you were trying to raise an issue or just make a statement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 This wasn't MEANT to go to feedback. Moderators are the supreme power of Lucasforums. They can do anything they like because they manage the site. It's as simple as that. Perhaps you could clarify as to what you are trying to prove or ask then? Because I know I am thoroughly confused as to your point. >:| _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 This wasn't MEANT to go to feedback. Moderators are the supreme power of Lucasforums. They can do anything they like because they manage the site. It's as simple as that. This isn't a thread for Ahto; which is for light-hearted chat about a variety of topics, this either belongs in Kavars or Feedback, though the latter makes more sense. If you want this moved to Kavars then I will do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Yes, I think this has to go to Kavar's, I can see what Yuthura is talking about and she's definitely not complaining about the staff or raising a feedback issue etc. etc. But I don't really see where Yuthura is coming from. No forum or discussion board monitors truth or lies, they only monitor behaviour and environment. As much as they look like it, the staff isn't really some SS gestapo propaganda mash-up army thing, but they are the local police force. Moved from Feedback to Kavars -- j7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Darth_Yuthura, you'll need to make a decision about where this thread is going. If this is about issues in general, please clarify that. This either needs to become a discussion or be closed. If this is a complaint about a specific moderator, please PM me and I'll move it to the feedback forum where complaints about staff are supposed to go. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 Kavar's is fine. Sorry about posting it w/out specifying exactly what it was and in the wrong location. Thanks to J7 and Jae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Rider Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 In a discussion of facts, lying is hard to pull when you provide sources for your claims. Twisted statements, statistics, that sort of stuff, while misleading, is not really lying. And most people who just say "ZOMG ADSHOIANONFASND!!!!" without backing up their claims are ignored. So, that problem is readily solved. If someone is lying about a member, and it's offensive, then a moderator will deal with it as usual. If someone is lying about themselves, their friend, or some other thing that noone here can prove, then we're all just SOL. Though some lies are pretty blatant, in which case, again, they are ignored by the other people in the topic and the problem is solved. So really, there isn't a whole lot to be done about lying, and lies or slander that alaready happen are dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee Hoon Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Imho, lying online is possible, but I don't really see a point to it. For example, how do you *know* that I'm not a socially dysfunctional tinfoil-hat-wearing 50-year-old who lives in a basement and whose only connection with Asia is an unhealthy fascination with underage girls? On the flip side, I might be a hawt multilingual Japanese/Taiwanese actor who is desired by many but seek only to secretly express my geekish tendencies. (Anyone who has heard me on Skype HAS BEEN FOOLED. NYAN NYAN DID NOT HAPPEN) So, erm, yeah. I don't have any desire to impersonate others, but the internetz is haunted by many unusual folks, so I daresay that at least some people on this forum are faking it, whether in small ways (i.e. age. Arc, no one gives a damn. Honestly. Maturity earns respect, not calendar age) or big ways. I bet that Dev is actually a CIA agent conducting a....social experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (Anyone who has heard me on Skype HAS BEEN FOOLED. NYAN NYAN DID NOT HAPPEN)Keep telling yourself that. I don't really see the point of lying on a forum about age, gender, etc but I am sure some people do it. I am probably way more open about who I am IRL than most people who come online though. But I think the only consequence if you are caught in a lie is potential humiliation, there wouldn't be any actual punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pho3nix Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I don't really see the point of lying on a forum about age, gender, etc but I am sure some people do it. I am probably way more open about who I am IRL than most people who come online though. But I think the only consequence if you are caught in a lie is potential humiliation, there wouldn't be any actual punishment. Same here. I've never seen any point in lying about my age or whatever, I don't get people who feel the need to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I really don’t understand the topic. Do you want the staff to moderate lying? Without being 100% sure something was a lie I would be really uncomfortable doing that. I would rather error on the side the poster was telling the truth. Even if someone is lying and I know it, unless it is a special circumstance that could affects others following the poster lying advice or if the lie is about a member, I don’t really see what harm a lie on the internet could produce. Besides I’m lying to you right now. my name really isn’t mimartin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I was on a certain (Not this) Forum once and got in to a fracas with some dude about some pointless topic, and he made himself look a fool. So he then posts a life story about how he's a war vet, recovering intravenous drug using suicidal gay Virgin with hep-C... ((Not your average geek forum member for starters)) anyway, I call him out and say he's probably a 16 year old with too much time on his hands. I get about 20 PM's saying I'm a Cold MF, and I dont know what it's like to suffer like him etc. It later came out as a lie but I had since been cold-shouldered from the forum. Pathetic but unprovable really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaelastraz Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 An insult would, obviously, be considered as such when the person who is targeted feels victimised, or finds the comment offensive. [/Quote] That can't be the whole story. Otherwise, I might as well claim that every post I don't agree with is offensive.. Btw, the sentence in my second paragraph is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSR Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Lying. On the internet. Really? I think a thread discussing the implications and effects of lying on forums is a bigger waste themselves than the topics it intended to deal with. So what if someone makes something up? You can be who the hell you want on the internet. 16/f/cal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 I really don’t understand the topic. Do you want the staff to moderate lying? Without being 100% sure something was a lie I would be really uncomfortable doing that. I would rather error on the side the poster was telling the truth. Even if someone is lying and I know it, unless it is a special circumstance that could affects others following the poster lying advice or if the lie is about a member, I don’t really see what harm a lie on the internet could produce. **I don't understand what you mean by this. If you can't convince me, then you aren't proving your point.** I might give an example of lying made by a MODERATOR, but I can't make an implication, since I was sanctioned for it. I said he was a smart guy, but the implication was that I really meant 'only if he agreed with my side of the argument.' That's an implied insult. I deserved to be sanctioned for that, but so did that moderator, who disregarded info that he once used to make an argument on another thread. That was low for a moderator. I hold no grudge for the one who issued the sanction, but for the mod who forced the opposite side of an argument to needlessly jump though hoops to provide info that he already knew... that's disruptive to any debate. (in my opinion, of course) << Just that could be regarded as an implication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 This sounds more and more like a complaint about a staff member. Complaints about staff should be directed to this forum. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 **I don't understand what you mean by this. If you can't convince me, then you aren't proving your point.** I don't have to convince you of anything. My point was "I" would not be comfortable moderating if a member was lying or not. My point had nothing to do with you or anyone else. Besides that my only point was asking you, your point for making this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 could would might fright light beep boob pee poop Is this thread trying to implicate something, or telling us lies? Because it's neither making a definite statement, nor giving hard facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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