Lambasting the New Star Trek Movie

[machievelli]

Over at another site, someone was praising the new Star Trek Movie, and as a Critic, I was incensed. So I posted this...

 

> J.J. Abrams' 2009 feature film was billed as "not your father's Star

> Trek," but your father will probably love it anyway. And what's not to

> love? It has enough action, emotional impact, humor, and sheer fun for

> any moviegoer, and Trekkers will enjoy plenty of insider references and

> a cast that seems ideally suited to portray the characters we know

> they'll become later.

 

I tend to disagree.

 

Any who read or write Sci Fi know there is serious suspension of disbelief when someone reads or views it; You have to accept things that are impossible, and go from there. The problem is, the story itself must be logical from that point on. There is a framework for what was done with this movie, and halfway through it, they violate it so blatantly that I lost all respect for the screenwriter and producers.

 

This isn't the first time I have been disappointed by Hollywood. Starship Troopers, and I Robot both did the same for slightly different reasons. In each of those cases, the basic ideas were brutalized in the name of modern writers 'rationalizing' what the older writers, unimportant men like Robert Heinlein and Isaac Asimov would have meant if they had been more 'farsighted' . Having troops run around in inefficient armor and poorly armed in their situation while you have commercials that the author would have never accepted running in the background? Robots violating the Three Laws of Robotics just to make a movie?

 

Then this. Roddenberry would have fired everyone connected if he were alive, because He knew better.

 

In The Making of Star Trek Roddenberry uses a modern American warship to show why a scene would not work because the scene would have been unbelievable. So let's use the same example, slightly modified;

 

The Cruiser Northhampton is enroute to the Persian Gulf when the First Officer, a man of Arabic descent is told that his mother, and the City of Baghdad have been destroyed by a smuggled Nuclear weapon. The Captain of the ship is badly injured leaving the grieving man in command. Faced with a very serious situation, a Cadet confronts the officer, and convinces the First officer to step down, placing, not the next ranking officer, but an unknown and untried Cadet in charge of the ship.

 

What is wrong with this picture?

 

Situations like this have been handled in excellent fashion by both Elizabeth Moon (Flashbacks in the Book Once a Hero) and by Melissa Snodgrass in the movie Star Command. Perhaps the screenwriter should have read one of them first before he even began writing.

[True_Avery]

Yeah, the entire chain of command system in the movie made no sense at all. They set it up to try to make sense, but it still fell flat. And by "set up", I mean invented military law to fit their story.

 

Forcing the commanding officer down due to inability to command seems like something that would happen, but the replacement would be someone next in command. The idea that he was a Cadet and took the spot essentially by claiming it for himself was an incredibly hamfisted attempt to get him in control of the ship.

 

That said, I enjoyed the movie overall. It just, as you said, blatantly violated its own framework to hamfist a plot element in.

 

I know little about the story behind I, Robot, but what happened to Starship Troopers was a travesty and the author is probably spinning like a helicopter in his grave.

[Qui-Gon Glenn]

Uh, they also blew up Vulcan! What reason is sufficient for this? So that we empathize with Spock? So we understand his loneliness and pain? I already did....

 

The movie in general was a huge disservice to me. Other Trekkers have stated that they loved it, and were able to forgive the canon being cannon fodder. I was disgusted, and had a hard time staying in the theatre to watch it... I guess the big $ IMAX ticket was all that kept me.

 

Not gonna pm ya Mac, but I like your argument. The chain of command thing was a facepalm.

[JediMaster12]

This does not sound like it belongs here. Even though you are discussing writers, it doesn't seem to fit with the fact that the main CEC exhibits fan fiction. I will move it to Ahto since this seems to be a discussion of critiquing the film.

[El Sitherino]

Eh, I figured they were just trying to show Kirk as a "**** you, I've got balls" kind of person. Because Kirk does have balls, big space-brass ones.

[Jae Onasi]

I enjoyed the movie overall, but yes, there were things like what machievelli describes that did bug me, being in a military family and all. Now that they have Kirk on board as captain, I'm hoping we'll see less of this kind of plot-forcing in the next film.

[Tommycat]

I enjoyed the movie overall. When Captain Pike did his whole field promotion thing I was like

 

It didn't make much sense. But then he was the only one to see the attack on Vulcan for what it was.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

I'm not exactly an expert on military ranking procedures, but Captain Pike made him Spock's first officer. Whether he's a cadet or not, would that not technically make him next in line for command?

[machievelli]

I'm not exactly an expert on military ranking procedures, but Captain Pike made him Spock's first officer. Whether he's a cadet or not, would that not technically make him next in line for command?

 

Yes and no. A captain has broad powers aboard, and making a Cadet the next senior officer would fall under that. However if you remember a Next Gen episode named 'Arsenal of Freedom, you had a lieutenant challenging La Forge's command on the grounds of Date of Rank. That would have occured with every officer aboard unless they trusted Kirk implicitly, something you would not expect considering how his classmates acted toward him.

 

No matter how talented Kirk would later prove, no one would have given him that chance. Without the support of your crew, a captain is just a guy in one chair.

 

To add insult to injury, Pike would have faced a court of inquiry regardless of what happened. As much as his actions would appear prescient, he violated the Gods alone know how many regulations bt taking someone that junior and promoting him even to brevet status. If you have ever seen the movie 'They Died with their Boots on' weakly linked to the life of Custer, his attaining command (Not historically accurate) to Major General in charge of a Cavalry Division springs to mind.

 

If you have never seen the movie, a clerk is filling out the papers on a desk, and Custer's new order are on the same desk. By accident, his name is put in the place of the proper officer, and a man who was a lieutenant less than five minutes earlier was promoted to Major General.

[Tommycat]

It is technically possible. However once the chain of command became involved(Such as, say... the acting captain being removed from command), the senior most officer would likely take command. And honestly, who promotes someone to "Acting XO"

[Totenkopf]

Usually someone writing fiction.

[Bob Lion54]

This bugged the heck out of me, too. I finally just decided that the ship was full of cadets so anyone could have taken command.

 

I know that's not right, but it makes me feel better so.. whatever.

 

But the official promotion really bugged me.

[Tommycat]

Bob, that would scare me even more.... I mean you send a warship completely crewed with cadets? I mean sure the Coast Guard does it. But I don't think they intend on going into battle.

 

That whole thing was contrived and just slapped together. Of course, the whole bridge crew was cadets... Maybe.... Maybe you're right Bob. Maybe the whole ship was crewed with fresh boots. I mean of course you want to crew the latest greatest ship with inexperienced NUB's(Non Useful Beings) who've never seen space time, let alone combat.

[Thanatos9t]

Bob, that would scare me even more.... I mean you send a warship completely crewed with cadets? I mean sure the Coast Guard does it. But I don't think they intend on going into battle.

 

That whole thing was contrived and just slapped together. Of course, the whole bridge crew was cadets... Maybe.... Maybe you're right Bob. Maybe the whole ship was crewed with fresh boots. I mean of course you want to crew the latest greatest ship with inexperienced NUB's(Non Useful Beings) who've never seen space time, let alone combat.

 

In the movie its mentioned that the primary fleet was occupied in the Laurentian system, at the time, so they had to assemble a rescue fleet using the ships in the spacedock and the Enterprise hadn't even been officially lanched so it wouldn't have a crew roster yet the higher ranked officers were probably divided among the other ships.

 

Also if I remember among the bridge crew was going to have some experienced officers excluding Spock and Pike, like at the helm where Chekov was standing in for an ill crewman.

[Te Darasuum Mandalor]

I personaly liked the movie. It rocked, it did have quite a few flaws though. Even though it says along time ago in a galaxy farfar away in SW, I have always thought in my brain that SW takes place in the future. So in my opinion, Star Trek led to Star Wars, even though it completely contridicts cannon.

[Miltiades]

Never having seen a Star Trek movie before this one arrived, I didn't have a problem with any canon rape that people say this movie has. Okay, so the promotion didn't make much sense, but I was willing to look the other way since I was successfully being entertained.

[El Sitherino]

Yes and no. A captain has broad powers aboard, and making a Cadet the next senior officer would fall under that. However if you remember a Next Gen episode named 'Arsenal of Freedom, you had a lieutenant challenging La Forge's command on the grounds of Date of Rank. That would have occured with every officer aboard unless they trusted Kirk implicitly, something you would not expect considering how his classmates acted toward him.

 

I'm pretty sure this takes place before Next Generation starts...

 

Military rules start somewhere, bro. It used to not be a problem to commit mutiny and all, things change.

 

 

Sure there were some problems with the construction, but as has been stated, some people knew what was going on where the majority of people did not. Seems to me a rational man would promote a newbie who knows what's on the up and up to keep the newly promoted captain level. Then his planet got destroyed and he lost his mom, so Kirk decided to be ballsy, kind of like calling the big dude cupcake. I'm fairly certain he was ready to fight for it but no one called his bluff for the captains chair. People unqualified to hold power have often claimed it for themselves many times in the past. No need to get all Professor of Science Fiction about it.

 

Besides, they went back in time and killed Kirk's dad, I think a lot of things changed by introducing that into the plot. You don't have to like it, but that doesn't mean the movie wasn't entertaining.

[thegame197676]

Pike did promote Kirk to first officer when he made Spock Captain and left for the Romulan vessel. So technically when Kirk got Spock to step down... he was the next in command. And however unlikely a scenario may seem.. I think it is harsh to base a whole movie on your dislike of this one scenario. Nothing is ever perfect...

 

Coming down on this Star Trek movie this hard because it has a few flaws is pretty pointless.. considering many of my favorite movies of all time had some kind of flaw here or there that could have been made better. But in the end it was still a good movie and I enjoyed it alot especially on the big screen at the threatre.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

In the movie its mentioned that the primary fleet was occupied in the Laurentian system, at the time, so they had to assemble a rescue fleet using the ships in the spacedock and the Enterprise hadn't even been officially lanched so it wouldn't have a crew roster yet the higher ranked officers were probably divided among the other ships.

 

Also if I remember among the bridge crew was going to have some experienced officers excluding Spock and Pike, like at the helm where Chekov was standing in for an ill crewman.

Indeed. But, honestly, I could care less if it did make sense or not. The movie ressurrected the franchise for me and brought a fresh new feeling toward it. An excellent job.

[igyman]

The movie had quite a bit of flaws, but that doesn't mean it wasn't entertaining. It just means, for me at least, that it didn't have that Star Trek feel. Phasers that fire multiple laser bolts, instead of a continuous beam, Romulans with bald heads and tribal tattoos, commercialism and money still exist when they shouldn't, etc, etc. I can go on and on. I'd say Kirk's promotion doesn't fall under the "huge flaw" category, the bigger flaws for me were the following two that are more technical in nature:

- the reason for Spock's and Nero's time jump. A star went supernova and threatened to destroy the galaxy? No s**t? Stars go supernova all the time and no matter how big the star is, or where it's located, no star can produce a supernova that would threaten anything more than its own planets and perhaps the closest neighboring star systems.

- the new "viewscreen" on a friggin' glass window. I'd say there's a reason why Roddenberry originally decided to put a video feed instead of a direct view into space via a huge glass window. If you look through a glass window with no protective filters into space so you could take a peek at the sun you'll go blind. Hell, if you look directly at the sun from Earth and try to stare at it longer, you'll go blind. The viewscreen was a logical choice because it enables the crew to see the sights and not compromise their health. But what's important to J.J. Abrams is that it looks cooler to have a glass window so you can't clearly see the sights, nor can you clearly see the face of the guy hailing you from another ship.

Still, the actors were great and really covered for all the flaws of this movie with their performance.

[machievelli]

Bob, that would scare me even more.... I mean you send a warship completely crewed with cadets? I mean sure the Coast Guard does it. But I don't think they intend on going into battle.

 

That whole thing was contrived and just slapped together. Of course, the whole bridge crew was cadets... Maybe.... Maybe you're right Bob. Maybe the whole ship was crewed with fresh boots. I mean of course you want to crew the latest greatest ship with inexperienced NUB's(Non Useful Beings) who've never seen space time, let alone combat.

 

That was the premise of Wrath of Khan, a ship with a few senior officers and everyone else boots. But on that ship, you had 5 officers of lieutenant rank or higher. If Kirk in that one had ordered that Peter Kirk (The cadet who died saving the ship) were to take over it would have been just as believable.

 

In the movie its mentioned that the primary fleet was occupied in the Laurentian system, at the time, so they had to assemble a rescue fleet using the ships in the spacedock and the Enterprise hadn't even been officially lanched so it wouldn't have a crew roster yet the higher ranked officers were probably divided among the other ships.

 

Also if I remember among the bridge crew was going to have some experienced officers excluding Spock and Pike, like at the helm where Chekov was standing in for an ill crewman.

 

As desperate as the situation is, you do not send out a warship larger than say a destroyer so destitute. It is too likely that a simple mistake can cost you the ship. If there had been no officers senior enough, they would have kept her in orbit rather than risk that.

 

I'm pretty sure this takes place before Next Generation starts...

.

 

Noted. Since Next Gen starts one century to the day after the original series aired.

 

Military rules start somewhere, bro. It used to not be a problem to commit mutiny and all, things change.

 

 

Sure there were some problems with the construction, but as has been stated, some people knew what was going on where the majority of people did not. Seems to me a rational man would promote a newbie who knows what's on the up and up to keep the newly promoted captain level. Then his planet got destroyed and he lost his mom, so Kirk decided to be ballsy, kind of like calling the big dude cupcake. I'm fairly certain he was ready to fight for it but no one called his bluff for the captains chair. People unqualified to hold power have often claimed it for themselves many times in the past. No need to get all Professor of Science Fiction about it.

 

If you have looked in the resource center in CEC I am the resident expert on things militaria. I know how the command structure works and what would and would not be acceptable. Something as simple as Spock stating his own disagreement for the record would have been sufficient, because then the rest of the events would fall into place. And Pike would have drawn a reprimand either way.

 

As for mutiny, until the 1850s Mutiny was never easy. The punishment was death by hanging. The only time earlier than that where a 'lesser' punishment was used was the Spithead Mutiny when the ringleaders were flogged through the fleet.

 

Oh, and as so many ignore, mutiny is a crime commited by the enlisted crew, though junior officers (Below senior lieutenant) can be included. The crime for senior officers is Barratry

 

Besides, they went back in time and killed Kirk's dad, I think a lot of things changed by introducing that into the plot. You don't have to like it, but that doesn't mean the movie wasn't entertaining.

 

 

I never said the movie wasn't entertaining, but it is like labeling Star Wars as a Star Trek knock off.

[JuniorModder]

I liked it, but I thought it was very.. Hmm how do I put this..Unoriginal.

 

I liked the old Spock reappearing, and I didn't have a problem with Vulcan being destroyed, because they altered the timeline, but it was a rather childish way to reboot Star Trek.

 

It was also too similar to Star wars. Watch this: (This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.)

 

JM

[Tommycat]

To be fair, I think they did a better job on the internals of the ship. They really made the inside look HUGE. More like a real vessel, less like a hallway.

 

Ship externals were a bit offputting, but acceptable.

 

They DID give hints at space being soundless...

 

Bones' story

 

All in all this Star Trek was in my opinion BETTER than the original, but still familiar enough to have that connection to the original. I seriously hope they do more. And I'm an old Trekkie. I can lip sync most of the old episodes.

[machievelli]

I liked it, but I thought it was very.. Hmm how do I put this..Unoriginal.

 

I liked the old Spock reappearing, and I didn't have a problem with Vulcan being destroyed, because they altered the timeline, but it was a rather childish way to reboot Star Trek.

 

It was also too similar to Star wars. Watch this: (This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.)

 

JM

 

rotflmao

[vanir]

lol good call. Totally unoriginal, fast sales hollywood tripe is also all I watched.

 

For the record battlefield promotion have been known to skip a rank, very rarely. That would make an ensign...a lieutenant. In the old days an NCO (eg. master sergeant) might be given a commission under battlefield conditions (eg. made a full lieutenant). This is because for example, in a bomber crew you usually have a commissioned officer in charge of the ship, an ensign copilot and NCO navigator and radio operator/gunner, everybody else will probably be low rank airmen. But pilot/copilot can sometimes both be killed in a head on attack...

In ground formations you might occasionally see an experienced NCO get a battlefield promotion to take over new companies or battalions being reformed or folded into one another following some major losses.

Otherwise you'll only see things like Lieutenant-Generals being promoted to Generals or Generals being promoted to acting Field Marshals. These are subject to review after the action and uprated insignia is rarely included.

 

Ensign to Fleet Captain no way. A Naval Captain is the equivalent of a full bird Colonel, an ensign has just got out from the Academy. Battlefield promotions have been very rarely known to skip a full rank, we're talking five ranks skipped here, with a bunch of people necessarily available who're far more qualified and certainly well ahead in the chain of command.

Most battlefield promotions are actually logistical, things like Warrant Officers being commissioned to take full command of a formation they were already leading, or a General becoming an acting Field Marshal because he got some new attachments that made him an Army Group. They are subject to performance review afterwards. General von Wiechs in charge of Heeresgruppe B during the assault on Stalingrad was an acting Generalfeldmarschall, because Hitler basically invented new Army Groups for this campaign suddenly and existing field commanders were placed in charge. He did a similar thing with the closing stages of the Stalingrad debarcle by placing General Paulus in charge of "Army Group Don" which made him first acting Field Marshal, and then officially two days before he surrendered by telephone promotion by the Führer (which countermanded the need for further review).

 

Let me put it this way, submarine "captains" are ranked Naval Lieutenants which is the equivalent of an Army Captain anyway, simply because the Naval rank of Fleet Captain is too high for the level of command any independent vessels can hold, being they are not ships of the line. The leader of a submariner group will be a Lieutenant-Commander and still subject to the overriding orders of any Captain from any ship of the line or his staff. The Chief of Staff equivalent to the Fleet Captain will be a Commander, who still outranks anyone who isn't in charge of a battleship by commission. So it goes Rear Admiral/Commodore, Fleet Captain, Commander, Lieutenant-Commander, Lieutenant, Submariner-Lieutenant, 2nd Lieutenant in the commissioned ranks, with Ensign on probation and Warrant Officers/CPO's with more real authority and experience than the Ensign. You might think of an Ensign as a pencil pusher in command terms, nobody is going to promote one to acting Fleet Captain since a Petty Officer is a better choice if everybody else is dead.