Homeschool

[Mav]

Btw... just curious... but what IS normal? Is there like a picture you can find to show me what normal is because I have NO idea what that is.

Apparently they didn't teach you about Google in Australia/Futureland either...

 

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Edit: lolololol Jose plays soccer, stereotypes are ****ing awesome

[True_Avery]

I have never experienced or seen this sort of thing first hand, but reading everything you've said, what gets me is: why do these parents not give a crap about their kids? Why do they abuse them and mess their lives up? Is it so hard to stop and analyse "why the hell is <X part of life> such a mess?" What is the reason??

Been asking myself this question for years and still don't have a valid answer. The best I can guess is that they were simply not ready to have kids. I'd say the majority of them just have little to no idea what to do with a kid. It isn't like a pet dog.

 

What I finally came to the conclusion was with most of these parents is that they were not ready for kids... or just didn't want kids. So, instead of giving them to someone else they beat them or drugged them to the point they stopped catching attention. Which is why kids like that strive for so much attention at school. Then you have the opposite end when the parent wants to be their best friend and gives their kid drugs and alcohol, then the kids acts out because they have no structure. Just another friend.

 

In the end I don't really know because I'm not a parent, and I don't beat children when I'm having an off day. Frankly I don't care to delve too far into those people's minds.

[Q]

Mostly, it boils down to parents putting their own wants and needs before those of their child's. You wouldn't believe the amount of rationalization that people are capable of. My folks managed to convince themselves (with help from various outside influences) that constantly undermining and sabotaging my life by repeatedly setting me up for failure and then placing the blame for the inevitably negative outcome squarely on me, not to mention betraying my trust on several occasions by lying through their teeth at my expense, was all somehow in my best interests. When confronted about it 25 years later they still can't (or won't) give me a straight answer as to why, because doing so might make them look bad. And they're supposed to be the epitome of good, Christian people, which is probably why I rejected Christianity at age 14 and haven't gone back. Surprise.

 

And, yes, I still hate them, and they probably still don't have a clue as to why because they are as vain as they are idiotic.

 

 

Some, well, probably a lot of people simply have no business procreating, but they do it anyway out of selfishness or careless stupidity.

 

EDIT:

@TA: I think that you definitely have a point about bad parenting, but I also think that GTA has point about bad public education. I've had to deal with the effects of both, and I think that you were extremely lucky. Also, please note that, until recently, homeschooled students were scoring far higher on standardized tests than students in the public education system, and yet we're to believe that those statistics suddenly took a 180° turn for whatever reason.

[vanir]

Coming from the school of hard knocks I've tended to get along with homeschooled people better. They're usually nicer and have your back long after regular folk have walked, although can be shy and clicky at first, and anxiety is a common theme if isolated but pair them up (eg. as adults in healthy relationships), or just plain treat them considerately, with common respect and they're just fine.

 

I'd love to meet a homeschooled woman for dating, most of the things I'm not real impressed about in the world wouldn't apply. Where I've come from it sticks out too much in people's attitudes and you can see where it comes from during "social development" in the education system.

 

That's where I come down.

[Q]

That's because the "social development" that students are exposed to in the public education environment involves learning how to be a ruthless psychological parasite while deftly covering it up with insincerity.

 

Sound familiar, anyone?

[True_Avery]

@TA: I think that you definitely have a point about bad parenting, but I also think that GTA has point about bad public education. I've had to deal with the effects of both, and I think that you were extremely lucky. Also, please note that, until recently, homeschooled students were scoring far higher on standardized tests than students in the public education system, and yet we're to believe that those statistics suddenly took a 180° turn for whatever reason.

I don't deny that many public schools are god awful terrible.

 

I argue that this is the teacher's fault, however. I find the districts and the distribution of money by idiotic politicians to be more of a problem. If you and GTA had especially terrible teachers, then all I can say is sorry about your luck, really. At the moment I'm not capable of saying more.

 

But, at least in my area, the teachers had good reason to protest about wages and money spending seeing as their pay checks were mysteriously disappearing from time to time and all the schools are in disrepair because no money is allowed to be put into fixing them.

 

Again, as with GTA, I'd like to hear why your teachers were so terrible. If I know what happened I can empathize more.

 

That's because the "social development" that students are exposed to in the public education environment involves learning how to be a ruthless psychological parasite while deftly covering it up with insincerity.

Personally I think this is the human condition regardless of private, homeschooling, or public but that is just me. We're all selfish bastards under our skin, but social interaction helps us hide it better. Otherwise you're just a feral child.

 

On a side note, while researching Feral children I came upon an interesting phenomenon: You can lock a child away in a room and feed it food, water, and give it everything necessary to live. Eventually, the child still dies because of a lack of social interaction. Usually by the teenage years. Social interaction helps the brain develop, and a lack of it causes less brain activity and the "atrophy" of the brain. Without social interaction, the child eventually simply dies even if they are at the peak of physical health. Those that are "saved" are... well, the best I can put it is mentally retarded beyond help a lot of the time. If you catch them young, you can save most of them but if you get them by early to mid teens there isn't much hope of them mentally moving past about the age of 5.

 

Food for thought.

[Lynk Former]

trap

He told you didn't he!

 

*turns in random direction* Damn you Admiral Ackbar *shakes fist* ruining everyone's fun!

[VarsityPuppet]

Personally I think this is the human condition regardless of private, homeschooling, or public but that is just me. We're all selfish bastards under our skin, but social interaction helps us hide it better.

 

I was going to challenge that for a second, but you're right. It's totally true. I mean, I like to consider myself a pretty honest person in social situations. I generally cringe at the thought of yelling at people or pulling a Kreia on anyone, but even with that, I find myself wishing plagues upon my enemies when I'm in the comforts of my home. This perfectly illustrates the above said.

 

 

 

He told you didn't he!

 

*turns in random direction* Damn you Admiral Ackbar *shakes fist* ruining everyone's fun!

 

Yeah, I saw the "It's a trap!" tarp from a mile away.

[Working Class Hero]

Thing is, your parents, when your of a younger age, you believe them more. They're your "teachers" from the start, you give them a lot of credit on the "trueth" of many things.

That's why some parents take their kids to co-op and other similar programs.

[True_Avery]

I was going to challenge that for a second, but you're right. It's totally true. I mean, I like to consider myself a pretty honest person in social situations. I generally cringe at the thought of yelling at people or pulling a Kreia on anyone, but even with that, I find myself wishing plagues upon my enemies when I'm in the comforts of my home. This perfectly illustrates the above said.

[Quanon]

I wondered, does homeschooling involve practicle experience on the sexual lessons side?

[VarsityPuppet]

I wondered, does homeschooling involve practical experience on the sexual lessons side?

 

What, like a hands-on experience?

 

 

I do. I like to say I'm calm like a bomb. You wait long enough, or cut the wrong wire, I'll blow up in your face.

[Rogue Nine]

You wait long enough, or cut the wrong wire, I'll blow up in your face.

 

i wouldn't want to be the urologist who has to do your vasectomy

[Qui-Gon Glenn]

This thread has been both amusing and a little surprising to read... so much anger directed towards a little kid by the forum geniuses, with a more Kavar's tone than Ahto to be sure.

 

I would say that, from my observations of the posts by home schooled early teens, that the crucial difference between home schooling and public/private ed is the lesson of peer taught humility. You each seem eager to defend a view as perfect despite having no experience from an opposing viewpoint, and as a frame of reference your age prevents you from having broad experience or wisdom in life to make a high level comparison personally, and none of you have produced any evidence, peer-reviewed or otherwise, to support your POV. In no way am I demeaning your intelligence - quite the opposite, most everyone shows better than avg at least, but always remember making blanket statements about life at your age to this community (or any other adult/young adult world) is going to receive rolled eyes at best. Like in a classroom, others will mock, ridicule, etc... and most would say deservedly so. Perhaps the true value of group ed is social.

 

With reservations, I guess, so do I.

 

I am in no way saying that pub/private ed provides the wisdom of life... what it provides is the experience of dealing with olders and smarters (and dumbers) on a daily basis, and seeing through peer pressure, assimilation and at times rejection, that shooting off your mouth like an expert in a crowd doesn't always work out the way you want. At home, mom just tells you to cool it, maybe corrects you and humbles you (if you are lucky) but still is your mom doing it, not Tim the bully from Mrs. Charles' english.

 

This is of value both positive and negative. Fill in those blanks if you like, I am not the arbiter of this court.

 

Perhaps the true value of group ed is social. Yet, the social part for many kids becomes the worst, and certainly part of the pain of it for all. No one gets a free ride, either way.... but that is not this discussion

[Quanon]

What, like a hands-on experience?

From mom or dad?

[Lynk Former]

Yeah, I saw the "It's a trap!" tarp from a mile away.

lol... that's actually funny for another reason because: http://www.twilightlynk.com/forums/t438/#post8309

 

 

forum geniuses

We have those... here?

[Te Darasuum Mandalor]

:lol:OMG! I want my own Admiral Ackbar! Where do we catch them?!

[Litofsky]

:lol:OMG! I want my own Admiral Ackbar! Where do we catch them?!

 

He's with the fuzzy teddy bears in Lucas' mind. Good luck traversing that one.

[Mav]

He's with the fuzzy teddy bears in Lucas' mind. Good luck traversing that one.

Yar, you have to get past Lucas' goiter first.

[VarsityPuppet]

From mom or dad?

 

Hmm... historically, it seems daddy is more likely to engage in such learning and bonding activities... until the damn popo intervenes >

 

That's an interesting point though Quanon. I suppose if one was inclined enough, one could probably arrange a "playdate" between his/her son/daughter and another child of similar age. That would be a little less creepy than a parent, but admittedly still weird as hell.

 

 

Such things are probably better learned in a public school anyways...

...specifically in the back seat of a car during open lunch.

 

 

lol... that's actually funny for another reason because: http://www.twilightlynk.com/forums/t438/#post8309

 

Oh the connection powers of Google search.

[Bimmerman]

To me, there seems to be three very different groups homeschooling their children.

 

1) extremely conservative religious folk

2) parents who hate the local school system for one reason or another. eg. incompetence, safety, poor performance, high cost, long travel, bureaucracy, etc.

3) a mix between the two groups.

 

I was homeschooled up until middle school, so until I was 11. My parents are definitely not in groups 1 or 3, they just have extremely high educational standards that public elementary and middle schools around my area did not meet. While homeschooling me, they were very involved in starting a new charter school to address their issues with the public school district. I never ended up going there though.

 

Since I actually was homeschooled, I think I have a good leg to stand on when I say I would not homeschool my children. For most of middle school and high school I had to play catch-up on making friends, being social, fitting in, etc. The function of elementary school, making friends, learning social rules, etc......doesn't happen in homeschool; how could it? There's no social interaction with peers of your age, or if there are, they're reaaaaaally weird folks. True story, this: the only other homeschooled kids around when I was that age were very maladjusted socially incompetent kids who I couldn't stand or hyper religious zealots who I also couldn't stand (them: "I heart jesus, yes I do, I heart jesus, how 'bout you?" me: "please shut up and go annoy someone else." Note I have no problem with religious people, just when they make it their business to tell me about their beliefs. Anyway, back to the story). There were all of three kids who didn't fall into that category, and to this day I have a smaller number of quality friends rather than lots of acquaintances. I have no problem with that, actually, but it sure took a lot of effort to get to that point.

 

As for my education, that was possibly worth the social retardedness I had for a few years. As said earlier, my parents have extremely high standards and are extremely well educated. While neither have teaching certificates or ever set out to be teachers, I would argue they are significantly more qualified to have taught me than every, and I do mean every public school teacher's union hack I had the displeasure of being instructed by. That's not to say I didn't like some teachers. Just that I ended up teaching myself just about everything with help from Mom or Dad....and I went to arguably the best high school in Colorado.

 

The main drawback I see is the lack of quality social interaction. Solve that, and have enough income for one highly educated parent to homeschool, and all is well. Unless you just heart Jesus a lot, in which case it really doesn't matter much.

[Q]

That's because the "social development" that students are exposed to in the public education environment involves learning how to be a ruthless psychological parasite while deftly covering it up with insincerity.

Personally I think this is the human condition regardless of private, homeschooling, or public but that is just me.

You are correct about it being human nature. My point is that certain environments actually foster this type of behavior while others work to discourage it. That difference is what I believe is the most important issue, here, because it has a profound impact on how people relate to one another and on society as a whole. When you remove the religion, it all comes down to a conflict between two basic philosophies. The first teaches that one should treat others in the same manner as he/she wants to be treated, and the other, well, doesn't. One leads to a better society. The other, well, doesn't. Religion doesn't even have to be a factor in this at all, because, in the end, it isn't, and, in my opinion, it shouldn't be because that only divides people along religious lines instead of philosophical ones. In short, this is a philosophical, and not a religious issue, for the simple reason that not everyone is religious.

 

Children who have been raised in a home environment that discourages parasitic behavior are at a severe disadvantage when placed in a learning environment that encourages it. They are faced with a terrible choice. They either have to sell out their values and conform or become an outcast or victim. Those who do conform or are already parasitic have the advantage of learning without the added stress of being an outcast or a victim, giving them a better overall learning experience. This is one of the two main reasons why the public school system has been hemorrhaging students lately (the other reason, of course, is because, academically speaking, public schools in the US are the laughing-stock of the civilized world). Regardless of religion, certain parents don't want their kids to be faced with the choice of becoming either a sociopath or a victim (or a vigilante) until they are mature enough to make a decision that doesn't end up ruining their adult lives.

We're all selfish bastards under our skin, but social interaction helps us hide it better.

So just hiding it makes it acceptable? Aren't we supposed to at least try to improve ourselves while we're alive and to teach our offspring to do the same for the betterment of society?

Otherwise you're just a feral child.

So the only difference between civilized people and savages is that civilized people possess the ability to conceal their savagery and not overcome it? So everyone should wear a mask and never be sincere at all because of a need to conceal their true selves? So we just go around lying to each other all of the time? That can't be right. And, yes, I'm perfectly aware that that is the way things are. Its being the status quo doesn't make it right, either.

 

Instead, why not try to change our true selves into people who aren't savage so that we don't have to go around wearing a facade out of fear that someone with a parasitic personality will exploit our weaknesses? If we can't change our basic nature, couldn't we at least find a more constructive outlet for it such as reserving our savagery for those who do exploit others (and therefore deserve it) instead of taking it out on the innocent? If the human race doesn't feel the need to evolve into something better, does it even deserve to exist at all? Unless I'm mistaken, even science would say "no".

On a side note, while researching Feral children I came upon an interesting phenomenon: You can lock a child away in a room and feed it food, water, and give it everything necessary to live. Eventually, the child still dies because of a lack of social interaction. Usually by the teenage years. Social interaction helps the brain develop, and a lack of it causes less brain activity and the "atrophy" of the brain. Without social interaction, the child eventually simply dies even if they are at the peak of physical health. Those that are "saved" are... well, the best I can put it is mentally retarded beyond help a lot of the time. If you catch them young, you can save most of them but if you get them by early to mid teens there isn't much hope of them mentally moving past about the age of 5.

 

Food for thought.

Damn. Who conducted that experiment? Josef Mengele?

[Jae Onasi]

to this day I have a smaller number of quality friends rather than lots of acquaintances. I have no problem with that, actually, but it sure took a lot of effort to get to that point.

This isn't exclusive to home-schooled kids. I went to public school the entire time, and I was quite socially awkward for many of those years. I was extremely shy in middle school and very shy in high school, and worked my way out of that shell in college. Working with a few thousand patients every year and being involved in the SCA and church to a high degree has helped my social skills, but the number of people I consider very close to me is still a quite small number.

 

I would homeschool my kids if I were in a crappy school district, but fortunately we're in a very good school district. My kids and I would drive each other crazy if I had to homeschool them.

[Totenkopf]

US Asylum for German homeschoolers:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100302/us_time/09171196809900

[JediAthos]

I saw that and I can see both Germany and the family's side of the story I don't like the idea of the U.S. giving asylum to these folks. Asylum, as the article states, is normally granted to people in much more severe situations. If they wish to immigrate to the United States and apply for citizenship then that's fine, but I don't think asylum should have been used in this case.