Monkey Island 2 Remake

[SyntheticGerbil]

Haha, it's funny that the second two look almost exactly like the original!

[QueZTone]

Haha, that's excellent MrC!

 

It's so confusing too, some screens look really identical if i have no direct reference

[KestrelPi]

Well I think it does go to show how much of that so-called grit was simply a side-effect of having fewer colours and pixels to play with. So we nostalgiacally remember grit which was really just artefacts - does that mean that they should, for the upscaled versions, artifically ADD grit to fit our nostalgia? Personally I'm ready to leave grit behind.

[elTee]

It's an interesting question - I've talked about this very issue with people, and some clearly do think the accidental grit gives the image a better texture. And that's obviously a nostalgia-tinted thing, but with the piratical atmosphere of the games, perhaps this texture somehow adds? It could be seen as an extension of the fourth-wall breaking that goes on, making the image on the screen seem more like the treasure maps of that world, etc.

 

Personally speaking, I can live without it in the SE. I think it looks almost uniformly fantastic, and I can't wait to crank it up to 1080p.

 

I'll still feel a lot happier when I see a video - and when I hear some more music. Hurry up, E3!

[SyntheticGerbil]

Well the original art that was scanned that we have seen so far, some parts are textured through the brushes and lost from the resolution but at the same time some smooth parts appear textured because of dithering or compression stuff.

 

I don't think lowering the resolution conclusively says anything. One reason is that since a lot of the original gouache and marker drawings for the backgrounds were originally done more for layout purposes than to be scanned as finished (according to Purcell's blog), they maybe have intentionally spruced up the dithering and dirtier look that the pixels lend themselves to when going back over them.

 

The other reason is that both Peter Chan's and Steve Purcell's sketches and paintings I've seen so far are done with either hard dark pencils or hard brushes. Nothing is really used in the way of soft pencil lines or feathered brushes. This in itself can help lend a lot to texture or "grit." Also it should be of note not any piece of paper in the game is very clean, having light brush variables creating textres that are obviously from the scan like for the title page, the map, or the paper. Some of the Special Edition team seems very keen on using soft brushes, but this is also understandable as every digital painting program out there seems to want to default every brush to have soft edges without you specifically telling it not to.

 

And the last part is, I don't know if everything screen is actually devoid of grit with the remake. Many screens to to have added some kind of texture that may or may not have been there in the original pixelized background. The Phatt Island dock seems to add more texture all around than I can actually see the in the original screen, which is great to me. When Guybrush and Elaine hang from the ropes, the backgrounds looks less gritty than the original, but seems to add it's own texturing techniques and makes more use of the hard blacks and highlights of the original style which I wish had been used more elsewhere (which is funny because the original screen doesn't actually make use of that particular technique). The alley way with the huge hand, the laundry mat boat, and Wally's dungeon seem to be very on par with the textured or "gritty" look of the original. Some scenes are more smoothed out looking in the remake and I think the weathered texture of the outside Captain Dread's ship actually looks better this time around.

 

Contrast can also up the grit, which there was more of in the original backgrounds, having a lot to do again, with someone from a comic book background who is used to inking or penciling things and never coloring.

 

It's when things get wacky and flat like Phatt's bedroom where I don't think it's on par, but so far, besides some of the murkiness or lack of contrast this is the only time I've seen anything this out of place. The redone backgrounds are the best part I think. Again, I think it's probably just a case of different artists being more adept at being faithful and doing the style of background that would suit the game than Phatt's room being something they were shooting for. There's at least one artist doing the backgrounds that knows what he/she's doing. It's all sort of give or take. I would be more alarmed that smooth colors and untextured surfaces should be more suited to the Monkey Island universe, because this wasn't even the case in Curse outside of the flat colored cartoon characters.

 

Texturing is a very "in" thing to do now in digital painting so I'm surprised some of you aren't seeing that some of these new backgrounds are using some of these techniques. To me it just seems like whoever's doing this in some of the newer backgrounds is probably not the same artist who's doing some of the smoother looking backgrounds.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Well I think it does go to show how much of that so-called grit was simply a side-effect of having fewer colours and pixels to play with. So we nostalgiacally remember grit which was really just artefacts - does that mean that they should, for the upscaled versions, artifically ADD grit to fit our nostalgia? Personally I'm ready to leave grit behind.

 

Actually "grit" WAS added... or at least something was after it was scanned, sometimes. The added a bit of edge enhancement, at least.

 

Here's the original artwork:

 

Here's that reduced to ~150 colours (very conservative! - Giving a stupid amount to the sprite palette):

 

Here's the map ingame:

 

Also: Phatt Island looks great so far! I'm really pleased with it! Definitely better than Scabb.

[SyntheticGerbil]

I think even the splotchier paint around the edge of the original map on the concept drawing counts as grit. I equate grit with a dirtier texture or "sloppier" paint rather than it necessarily needing everything to look like sandpaper or something.

 

But I agree with Thunderpeel, Scabb's looking great. Almost all of the bricks around the city have the rough parts of the bricks painted in somewhat for instance.

[Snugglecakes]

I suddenly have no idea what anyone is actually arguing about... so I'll stop lol

 

But wow those 8bit screenshots are so delicious I want to eat them haha! It's the pixels. Sigh. I'd love to see the same treatment on some of the MI1:SE shots, it is indeed amazing how much like the originals these MI2:SE ones look. I'll bet the MI1:SE ones wouldn't come quite so close.

 

I do however have a solution to all our problems. All the artists need to do is work in 10368x5832 resolution and then scale it down to 1920x1080

[Thrik]

Maybe they should just import the noise filter from The Devil's Playhouse as a toggle. ;

[KestrelPi]

I like the Phatt room. I think it's the best looking shot yet. Sure, the brushtrokes are sort of broad and it's not super-detailed, but I think it works really well as a style. It's still unmistakeable as Phatt's Room.

[Jake]

Here's the map ingame:

 

Actually uses 128 colors (even fewer than your conservative 150 colors), and probably reduced down to that limited palette with a dithering routine which sucks more than modern ones.

 

But yeah even so, the old MI2 stuff seems to have a fair bit of grit to it.

[Aububuh]

 

*Ptooie *

[Kroms]

That's pretty good! Not sure about the spitters/audience, especially the guy on the far left and the main announcer himself, who make me think that they're going for the 'comedy' voices. Please don't go for the 'comedy' voices.

[Snugglecakes]

That's pretty good! Not sure about the spitters/audience, especially the guy on the far left and the main announcer himself, who make me think that they're going for the 'comedy' voices. Please don't go for the 'comedy' voices.

 

I fear it's far too late for that

[SyntheticGerbil]

NOW YOU WILL ALL SEE THE FLAGS BLOWING TO WIN THE CONTEST!

[desmondclarke]

It's all looking superb, really looking forward to it!

 

I wonder if there'll be a 'Lite' mode as there was in the original?

[Giant Graffiti]

 

Interesting how they've changed the way spit announcer looks twice. (I wonder if they fixed Guybrush's lack of a beard in the intro?)

[s-island]

What's the third image from?

[elTee]

Back of the box ;-)

[Aububuh]

That's pretty good! Not sure about the spitters/audience, especially the guy on the far left and the main announcer himself, who make me think that they're going for the 'comedy' voices. Please don't go for the 'comedy' voices.

 

I wouldn't really mind if the announcer had a 'comedy' voice, because he always seemed to me that he would sound like one of those completely over the top, megaphone carrying announcers that you see at festivals, but everyone else is a different matter.

Imagine Largo with a 'comedy' voice.

*Shudder *

[SyntheticGerbil]

I wouldn't mind some shtick type voices either for things like the spitting contest and the roulette game, but I hope they sort of stay confined to where they will work this time.

 

Since lite mode was brought up and the Spitting Contest doesn't exist in that mode, I'm wondering if only hard will be available just because the Special Edition team would undoubtedly want us to see all the work they did and cutting large sections wouldn't be very good for that.

 

If so, that'd be unfortunate because I always thought varying difficulty in adventure games was a great idea that was unfortunately confined to only two Monkey Islands (does Loom count though?). It's good people that who aren't interested in ****ing around with a lens an ape statue is must hold that reveals a certain brick would still have a chance to beat the game.

[MusicallyInspired]

CMI had it too....not as much as MI2, albeit. I'm still worried about whether they'll have Adlib emulation in classic mode for the soundtrack...

[SyntheticGerbil]

Haha, that's what I meant by "two Monkey Islands."

 

I thought CMI did a pretty good job of easy mode as well, but CMI on it's regular game wasn't really anywhere as hard as Monkey Island 2. I'm racking my brains to think of non-Lucas adventure games that had easy modes as well (that were successful) but I can't figure it out. I do think in one of the Secret History articles someone said it somewhat labor intensive to make varying difficulties, which is unfortunate.

 

I bet they'd have to emulate the Adlib, because it would be strange to only let you select the new music for both modes. Or do you mean you're afraid it might be MT-32 or MIDI emulation? I'm really ignorant of how all of that stuff works so if I'm talking out of my ass, I apologize.

[ATMachine]

 

Interesting how they've changed the way spit announcer looks twice. (I wonder if they fixed Guybrush's lack of a beard in the intro?)

Considering that in an early version of the campfire scene Guybrush HAD a highly visible beard, when in the final version it's not visible at all, this was possibly a deliberate choice by the team designed to illustrate how wispy his facial hair is.

 

Or not. Actually, all 3 characters in the campfire closeup (Guybrush, Bart, and Fink) got slightly redrawn before the release, and all of their silhouettes (that is, the edges of their sprites) were tweaked. So it may have been accidental after all.

 

Also "hard mode" may well be removed simply by virtue of which code the LEC team is building the SE on top of. Back in the day the CD version of MI2 left out easy mode, for some reason, and that's what I presume the new guys are using as a base. But that's just wild speculation on my part.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Well! Booty Island is looking pretty nifty, too. (Anyone notice the double-letter occurrences in the islands? Melee, Phatt, Scabb, Booty... with the final "end" islands being the exception. Just noticed now!)

 

As for the announcer, I always thought it was a WOMAN. Not a man, as you all seem to believe. I guess I could be in for a shock, but I've never had a voice in my head for this character, so I probably won't care. Notice she's not wearing sunglasses in the SE, though.

 

I too hope there won't be ANY silly voices this time around. Even the spitting content announcer doesn't need to sound like someone deliberately putting a stupid voice on. Fingers crossed... I guess I have to admit I'm getting more and more hopeful as time goes on. That Phatt street looked PERFECT (more or less - the poster text was a little pixellated, but I can easily live with that). The Governer's bedroom was pretty nifty, too (even though it was quite different to the original in many unnecessary respects).

 

As for "Hard Mode", I can only hope (and yes, this is probably sacrilegious to many) that they fix it by improving some of the stupider puzzles: Mixing the grog drink, the spitting contest, the ape statue, and sin of all sins, the "monkey wrench".

 

MI2 was flawed, as Gilbert has acknowledged, because they decided to ditch the medium mode and keep easy and hard. Nobody (to my knowledge) played Easy. I never did, and later versions of the game didn't even bother to include it. It was designed to make adventure games more accessible, but anyone who'd bought MI2 wasn't really thinking "I've never played an adventure before, I'm scared"... so that left hard - aka "****ing evil mode".

 

Thank goodness they fixed it with CMI. They ditched the Easy mode and put together a normal version of the game that everyone could enjoy. Then they put in an advanced mode for people who had already completed medium, or just wanted a really difficult challenge right off the bat. The great thing was that, even on hard, the puzzles never sank to MI2's level of obscurity...

 

So, again, I hope they've fixed the game in some way.

 

Side note: Has anyone noticed that all the anachronisms have been removed/toned down from the SE screenshots so far? No steel rebars, less machine-made looking tube under the Governer's bed, no sunglasses on the spitting content announcer... I know it's wishful thinking, but could this be deliberate?