Mass Effect 3

[logan23]

I will see if I can edit it to hide.

I'm on iPhone so let me see if I can do this ... Typing on iPhone keypad is sometimes a little hard .

[Darth Avlectus]

Seriously now...

 

http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/outrage-over-mass-effect-3-ending-reaches-ftc-173411384.html

 

Bioware's Mass Effect 3 has earned plenty of praise from gaming critics, but a small, vocal percentage of players aren't thrilled with the game's ending, to put it mildly.

 

And now they're bringing their issues to the Feds.

 

A user on the Bioware forums who goes by the name "El_Spiko" says he has complained to the Federal Trade Commission about the resolution of the trilogy -- and he's calling on other disgruntled fans to do the same.

 

"After reading through the list of promises about the ending of the game they made in their advertising campaign and PR interviews, it was clear that the product we got did not live up to any of those claims," wrote the poster (who we're assuming didn't file it under the name El_Spiko). "This is not somethign [sic] I was happy to do, but after the terrible ending that was in no way the product that had been advertised to me and the lack of any kind of response from Bioware/EA to address this, I felt it was one of my only recourses."

 

He also encouraged others unhappy with the ending to complain to the Better Business Bureau.

 

While the FTC will likely do exactly squat in the matter, Bioware is certainly under fire here. It's tricky to get into the specifics without spoiling the ending for those yet to experience it, but the gist is that there are actually three possible endings to Mass Effect 3, which vary based on the player's in-game actions. However, argue fans, the ultimate conclusion of the game isn't one that's based on how people played the game and is too open-ended. For a series defined by the interplay between player choices and subsequent consequences, that has some people seeing red.

 

Before complaining to the Feds, gamers launched the usual online protests, including a petition and a charity drive (which has already passed $67,000.) A 'Retake Mass Effect 3' Facebook page has amassed some 42,000 supporters, and an associated Twitter account has over 4,000 followers.

 

Bioware hasn't made any commitments to address the issue, but did take to Facebook early Monday to acknowledge the complaints.

 

"We are aware that there are concerns about a recent post from this account regarding the ending of the game. In this post it was stated that at this time we do not have plans to change the ending," the developer said. "We would like to clarify that we are actively and seriously taking all player feedback into consideration and have ruled nothing out. At this time we are still collecting and considering your feedback and have not made a decision regarding requests to change the ending.

 

"Your feedback and opinions are of the utmost importance to us. We apologize for any confusion this has caused. Our top priority regarding this discussion is to keep communication with you, our loyal fans, open and productive."

 

Not everyone is hoping for a change, however. A newly formed 'Keep Mass Effect' group has popped up on Facebook to lend support to Bioware's original vision.

 

 

Well, I don't play M.E. despite others' efforts to try to get me to do so. I've heard mixed reviews thus far. I suppose if you think you're being ignored that's one way to go about things.

 

Yet I cannot help but think some are overreacting...just a little.

 

Thoughts?

[DarthParametric]

There's already a giant ME3 thread.

 

Not sure how the US laws are structured in this regard, but you could argue with some merit that based on comments by Bioware and EA before release that there is a valid claim for false advertising. Down here at least though I don't think it would hold much legal water as the law is structured primarily to deal with consumers and retailers. There's no false advertising on the retailer's part, unless they were pushing lots of EA's PR material. I think you could end up getting a refund under Oz law, but that's about it.

[Q]

LOL, this s*** is high-larious!

 

 

DISCLAIMER: Haven't played ME3 yet.

[Darth Avlectus]

There's already a giant ME3 thread.

As I said, not a player of mass effect here. This thread is sort of for my crowd.

 

I figured a complaint with involvement of the government was enough to merit its own thread...

 

Not sure how the US laws are structured in this regard, but you could argue with some merit that based on comments by Bioware and EA before release that there is a valid claim for false advertising. Down here at least though I don't think it would hold much legal water as the law is structured primarily to deal with consumers and retailers. There's no false advertising on the retailer's part, unless they were pushing lots of EA's PR material. I think you could end up getting a refund under Oz law, but that's about it.

 

Until recent years, sometimes getting any refunds whatsoever was a bit of a pain.

 

If enough people complain something might be done but I'm not entirely sure about the actual number of unhappy people, either way. I'd imagine laws are similar in that regard, though.

[DarthParametric]

On the subject of refunds, Amazon is offering refunds on ME3, even if the box was opened. Even the Collector's Edition.

 

http://www.analoghype.com/video-games/playstation-3-news/amazon-offering-a-full-refund-on-already-opened-copies-of-mass-effect-3/

[Red Hessian]

People are mostly refunding the game because of the face import bug and no ETA from Bioware when or if they plan to fix it.

[DarthParametric]

I seriously doubt that is the reason.

[Alkonium]

It's like I always say. Fanboys are fickle morons at the best of times.

[mimartin]

As I said, not a player of mass effect here. This thread is sort of for my crowd.

 

I figured a complaint with involvement of the government was enough to merit its own thread...

Nope, moved and merged. This is Lucas Forums not, whine about bioware forums. One thread for that is enough.

 

People complain to the goverment if McDonalds is out of Mcnuggets, that does not merit its own thread either. j/k

[Sabretooth]

People complain to the goverment if McDonalds is out of Mcnuggets, that does not merit its own thread either. j/k

 

What, the complaining people or the meriting of its own thread? o_O

[Prime]

If you make it to the end... well, you'll probably want to take your own life. Here, you better have this:

 

Naw, I don't nerd rage, so I will be fine regardless.

[DarthParametric]

I don't nerd rage

You haven't seen the end yet...

[Salzella]

Amazingly enough, not everyone actually thinks it's that bad. I don't massively like it but **** me worthy of a goddamn lawsuit it ain't.

[jedi_consular16]

Complaining to the FTC, eh? Well, certainly a legal privilege to do so and even though I doubt the FTC will pursue it to the fullest it does draw attention to the fact that there is a sizable number of people who intensely dislike the ending.

 

As for me, I've stated before how I dislike the ending, but I don't expect there to be a new one. Sure we might whine and complain, but...whenever Bioware rolls out their next RPG whether it be within the ME universe or perhaps a different one, how many of us whiners are not going to buy it because of our ME3 rage?

 

For as much as I disliked the ending, I found ME3 overall to be a very entertaining game and well worth my 60$, and I'm going to continue to support Bioware's future endeavors simply because of the 4 Bioware games I've played thus far (KOTOR, and the ME triology) all have been extremely entertaining and provided hundreds of hours of game-play. I think at the end of the day Bioware and others involved with the production and sale of ME3 are expecting most of their target clientele to feel the same way and personally I think they are safe in doing so.

 

Plus, my main beef with the endings was the lack of closure on the party characters and their stories. Probably done on purpose to save for DLC.

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Perhaps something in the realm of...I don't know...erm...say you control Grunt in a few side missions where he and his team of krogan uncover a Salarian-Turian plot to create a new genophage or something. Replicate this 5 or 6 times with different scenarios for the other party characters (just had an idea of Jacob and Miranda teaming up to go after remnants of Cerberus, could give Bioware a chance to tell us more about the still shadowy organizaiton)

and you could almost have enough content to make another game.

[Lynk Former]

I should file one for Metroid: Other M as I feel completely and utterly ripped off by that entire game.

 

These guys are just trying to make a point to BioWare and I don't really care how they go about it. If they feel they need to, it's their time to waste doing it... the obviously felt strongly enough about BioWare ending up wasting their time and money with the 3 (at least) ME games coming to the conclusion it did.

 

Seriously, I know it's easy to mock these guys cause they're getting uppity about all this, but being a huge Metroid fan and then playing Other M... I can see where they're coming from. As for Mass Effect itself... meh, ending sucks but I don't care, I'm just not going to bother playing it over again cause I see no real point since it all ends in the same place anyway.

[Darth Avlectus]

It's like I always say. Fanboys are fickle morons at the best of times.

It's true, he has said it before...and it's true because that's how it is.

 

I should file one for Metroid: Other M as I feel completely and utterly ripped off by that entire game.

I remember your irk quite well, and it was a confirmation. I got to sample it (the game itself), and yet afterwards I knew I disliked it, just wasn't sure why I disliked it. It just didn't seem quite so true to its roots.

 

These guys are just trying to make a point to BioWare and I don't really care how they go about it. If they feel they need to, it's their time to waste doing it... the obviously felt strongly enough about BioWare ending up wasting their time and money with the 3 (at least) ME games coming to the conclusion it did.

 

Seriously, I know it's easy to mock these guys cause they're getting uppity about all this, but being a huge Metroid fan and then playing Other M... I can see where they're coming from. As for Mass Effect itself... meh, ending sucks but I don't care, I'm just not going to bother playing it over again cause I see no real point since it all ends in the same place anyway.

 

Not mockery (speaking only for myself) so much as speaking from being inured to what I like/favorites being botched and squeezed for anything their developer can, instead of just being allowed to let die with what little dignity it has left.

 

Perhaps it can be summed up as:

I say "So your favorite game franchise got screwed over? That really sucks, seriously, but wha'cha gonna do?"

And their reply is "sue their asses, for real".

 

Perhaps I'm just a bit taken aback, that's all.

[Sir Vougalot]

I've been playing the multiplayer mode. It is highly addictive.

 

I will not touch the single player campaign until they patch the facial importation issue.

[DarthParametric]

whenever Bioware rolls out their next RPG whether it be within the ME universe or perhaps a different one, how many of us whiners are not going to buy it because of our ME3 rage?

Their last 2 games (ME3 and DA2) have generated bad publicity to a level that they've never really seen before. If DA3 (which would appear to be their next game) follows suit - and early signs are it could, with wacky MP and other stuff being proposed - then it's not inconceivable that they may have done their dash with a lot of people. Some people like to deride "Biodrones", but I think there is a limit to how much they will take.

[mimartin]

Some will still buy it just so they can whine about how bad it is...

[Totenkopf]

So, how specifically would people here have improved the ending. Also, this being a long thread, maybe I missed it, but exactly what decisions did people make they thought weren't addressed somewhere/anywhere in/by ME3? I can see going straight to the credits from the "bad" ending or even extending the game a scene or two after the "best" ending sequence (or maybe a LOTSB style vid/info file sequence on various surviving charahcters, not great perhaps, but better than what they gave people in terms of "closure" or crewmate wrap-ups).

 

For myself, I'd say the endings were incomplete and anticlimactic. However, given all the raging, I guess I was further inoculated from expecting too much of the conclusion. For the most part, the game is pretty good, despite its stupid flaws (eg. the face bug being a ridiculous oversight, but nowhere near a dealbreaker as well as the EMS system issue). Fair amount of action and humor, but also a sense of camraderie with your crew that was largely missing in the first two. Still, while I think the FCC thing is hilariously over the top......so was Bioware's implication that 1000s of factors influenced the ending of your game in any meaningful way. Seemingly, judging from reactions, they've been hoisted w/their own petard.

[Sabretooth]

I wouldn't change the ending, but

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I think the greater problem is how badly it sticks out and pops out of nowhere. The Crucible for example, is the biggest mystery the game leaves you and it appears as a deus ex machina in the series. Who invented it? What was its original purpose? How was it improved over the cycles? It's also a little too convenient that the Crucible is discovered shortly after the Reaper invasion.

 

IMO, the Crucible should have been ME2's central plot point - finding and recovering it. This would do a good job of setting the stage for the final leg of the series. As it stands, the entire Human Reaper plot was pretty pointless and does nothing to contribute to ME3's plot.

 

Much of the ending is also hastily written up that doesn't so much as encourage speculation as leave a gaping black hole. Why does the Catalyst say that its solution has failed because of Shepard's arrival? Why are Destruction and Control possible solutions, as they will just restart the original cycle that led to the creation of the Reapers in the first place? Is the Crucible supposed to be some kind of an AI override? And of course, why the EMS affects the Destruction ending.

 

I've read Drew Karpyshyn's originally planned ending, and that seems to go better with ME2's plot, but the way ME3 ends now, ME2's plot is pretty much a filler. I'd go so far as to say that as much as I hate Drew's ending for the series, it does just flow better with the first two games.

[DarthParametric]

My take on it.

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The biggest issue for me personally, and for a lot of other people judging by what I have read, is a lack of proper closure. The endings are stupid with the last minute introduction of Casper, the whole "wipe you out to prevent you from being wiped out" nonsense, the recoloured versions of the same CG, the Normandy fleeing/crashing, etc. but most of the rage stems from the end seemingly undoing everything from the previous 30 hours and leaving you hanging with a bunch of unanswered questions. Some people claim that the whole game is a process of closure, and I agree - right up to the last few minutes. Casper throws a spanner in the works by nullifying everything that you achieved to that point. Maybe you cured the Genophage, brokered peace between the Quarians and Geth. What does it matter now with the relays destroyed, pretty much the entire galaxy's military forces trapped in the Sol system, worlds unable to sustain themselves without outside supplies completely cut-off, etc.? Your choices across all 3 games basically amounted to nothing. It's not about having a happy ending. It seemed pretty likely right from the first game that Shepard was going to end up going the noble sacrifice route at the end of the series. Sure, it might have been nice to have a miraculous "survived against all odds and lived happily" ever after ending if you got a high EMS etc., but that's not really the problem.

 

The strength of the series (and pretty much all Bioware games) is in the characters. Look at all the gazillion character threads over at the official forum, or no further than our own resident Talimancer ChAiNz. Proper resolution for the main characters is a big part of what is lacking. As I said before, what resolution we got in the previous 30 hours is stripped away at the end. A good example is Tali. You got her homeworld back, but now she's trapped in the Sol system, probably doomed to starve to death or at least never see Rannoch again. At least if she wasn't your LI she and Garrus could starve to death together I guess. At the most basic level, you don't even know if the majority of your companions survived the battle. All you get to see is your LI and one of the final mission companions get off the Normandy, marooned on some unknown world.

 

I think a lot of the storm that has blown up in the wake of the game's release could have been nipped in the bud fairly early on by a simple forum post by Casey Hudson or Mac Walters. All it would have taken is a paragraph or two to let people know what the state of the galaxy is post-ME3 - how it will function without relays and what the impact was on the major characters and races. There would still be bitching and moaning about how poor the ending is, and not without justification, but I think a little bit of closure would go a long way in mollifying the majority of the disgruntled fanbase.

[mur'phon]

Sabre: I agree on the Crucible thing, and especially the pointlessness of ME2.

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However, it seems logical that it started out as some long forgotten organic races' attempt to stop the reapers, and whenever organics are about to loose without being able to complete the Crucible they attempt to (or unintentionally) leave instructions for the next organics.

 

If I could change the ending (and not the rest of the game(s)).

 

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I'd change the Crucible into a simple weapon that could direct enormous amounts of energy (at least the "channeling a lot of energy" is mentioned in game). The Citadel would simply act as the power source (IIRC it's a relay meant to handle the entire Reaper fleet, so not that far fetched that it's the only source big enough).

Casper wouldn't exist, and the Illusive man doesn't have much reason to be on the Citadel anymore (what happens to him could be determined by what you did on the Cerberus base). Also, with a high EMS the Reapers will pull all their forces back to defend the Citadel (because they react to the threat posed), this will matter later.

Once you get your armor ruined, you'd listen in to a com-conversation between EDI and Hacket (they let Shep listen in just in case he/she survived). As you lumber around, EDI discusses the possible ways to use the Crucible (and the likely consequences), and once you are almost at the control panel, the others realize Shep is alive, while Hackets ship is about to be destroyed, Hacket leaves the choice to Shepard before dropping out of the conversation.

 

Choices would be

1: The "hoping for a happy ending" ending

Attempt to use the "death ray" from the crucible just against Reaper forces.

Since it's not a precision weapon, there will be collateral damage, which risk sparking new conflicts. Also, with a low EMS the Reapers outside Sol would still need to be dealt with, and more collateral damage would occur (less time to aim). Also, because, a lot of Reapers are between the Crucible and Earth, much of the planet is devastated. Mitigated by: choices promoting peace between races, however, even in the best circumstances, everyone would distrust humans and incidents would occur (with the implication that war might erupt sometime in the future). Also curing the genophage would make the Salarians wage a brutal secret war, while not curing it would make things easier for the Alliance.

Ending movie: beam of destruction, and then a "some years later" scene were Shep makes his/her way to address the Council, being bombed by questions which depend on your choices.

 

2: The "some might see this as the Paragon choice" ending

Direct it against the Charon relay (and with a low enough EMS, the relays where reapers still are, causing more collateral damage). Everyone in Sol dies, however, the Reaper war ends right there. In addition, with the rest of the universe uncertain about what happened, the fear of Reaper attacks will act as a unifying force. Relations between races, the balance of power, and the fate of the few NPCs not present in the Sol system would to some extent depend on your actions.

Ending movie: Seeing a monument to those killed in the battle for Sol, with a big screen in the background showing a council member giving a speech about the future, mentioning your choices indirectly. Also, the races seen paying their respects around the monument would depend on your choices.

 

3: The "because your Shep have acted as a human supremacist for three games" ending.

Similar to 1, except this time it's not collateral damage (though the Alliance will claim it is). The Alliance then use their possession of the Crucible to force concessions from the other Races. Eventually this leads to war, (which will be very messy if Reapers are left outside the Sol system). It drags on as it becomes clear that the Citadel can't take the strain of firing the Crucible too much. The Alliance still ends up winning, with an end result similar to the Prothean Empire (however, whether Shepard contributed aside from wanting humanity to take its "rightful place" is left to your imagination). Your choices would affect both the length of the conflict, who participates and how well the races integrate after.

Ending movie: Shep and LI dozing on the couch watching a quick documentary called "a fresh start" going quickly through the above.

 

 

Of course these endings assume a larger budget for the ending. So assuming budget constraints just replace my "ending movie" bits with the AP ending (a news report that depends on your choices while the credits roll)

 

Edit: Jeez, I have way too much time on my hands, sorry a bout the wall of text.

[Sabretooth]

Sabre: I agree on the Crucible thing' date=' and especially the pointlessness of ME2. [HIDDEN']However, it seems logical that it started out as some long forgotten organic races' attempt to stop the reapers, and whenever organics are about to loose without being able to complete the Crucible they attempt to (or unintentionally) leave instructions for the next organics.[/HIDDEN]

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That's what we can glean from the game's hints, but then this poses the question: how did this organic civilisation come up with the solution in the first place? In order to even conceive the Crucible, they must have had some kind of contact with the Catalyst, which the game seemingly implies remains inert until combined with the Crucible. And if they did have contact with the Catalyst, why didn't the Catalyst allow the Synthesis option then?

 

There really is no decent, guessable explanation for the Crucible's formation and existence, it's the most perfect example of deus ex machina I've ever seen.

 

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the whole "wipe you out to prevent you from being wiped out" nonsense

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I don't know why people don't get this, it's pretty easy. Logic (or Reaper logic) states that all synthetic life will eventually turn on and eliminate organic life - it's evolution. In order to preserve organic life, Reapers wait for organics to form advanced civilisations to the point that they are able to make synthetic life, and then convert them to Reaper form. Without them to do their job, all organic life may be destroyed, and once gone, it can never reappear. The Reapers care about organic life, not individual species or civilisations (which they preserve in a way they see fit anyway).

 

Should we have a separate thread on ME3's endings? This thread is half-obscured with all the Hidden text.