Return to Monkey Island

[Thrik]

16 hours ago, Remi said:

Correct. And Schafer originally wanted Guybrush to be called Hank Plank.

 

It’s only safe to assume Guybrush, LeChuck, ElCarlo, and Plank are quadruplets. 

What a twist if we found out that this mute zombified pirate we’ve been seeing in all the promotional material is actually El Carlo?!

[Ramen]

9 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

 

Oh okay.

 

Guybrushes nose doesn't look like a penis, his body proportions are in keeping with kind of storybook/scrapbook feel the art style is going for, animation similarly, and it's also looking like it's going to be probably the most custom animation we've seen in any of the games including the 3d ones, colours are bright but well-chosen and in keeping with the style, backgrounds are heavily stylised and angular, but have a great sense of life especially while in motion,  characters have very expressive faces in a way that we've never seen in a 2D Monkey Island before, even Curse where characters weren't very expressive outside of cutscenes.

 

Look.

 

Anyone can list a bunch of things and call them facts. Don't pretend you're taking the intellectual high road by doing so. Nah. What you're doing is not art criticism (if it were, you'd notice that the approaches between this and the MI1 special edition are EXTREMELY different and that this style is a lot more detailed and took a lot more effort), it's your own feelings about the art, which you've wrapped up in faux-critique in order to that you can act wounded whenever anyone refuses to engage with you on it.

 

You know, I've talked to a lot of different people about this art style, and you know the ones I've talked to who are the MOST excited about it? Usually, they're trained artists. By all means don't like the art. Just stop pretending that you have access to some higher level of critique that makes you 'correct' about it.

 

Since you missed my sarcasm the first time round, let me be absolutely clear: I am not going to engage with this line of argument any more.

 

 

 

 

I didn't call them facts, I said they were true. Which they are to most people I know, and according to the internet, a whole lot of people I don't know as well. And I said compared to MI2 and MI3, not compared to the special editions. But if you feel the need to twist words to put others down, feel free. Is what you are doing art criticism? Is it you who defines what that is? I have a bachelors in art history, and also know a lot (too many) artists. I don't pretend to hold some kind of higher standard because of it, but I am used to engage in discourse over technique and style. Something I can tell the people in this forum is not.

I'm not wounded anyone refuses to engage with me, I'm just pointing out that you are chasing away anyone who disagrees with your rose tinted view of what this is, and then parading around thinking you have changed peoples mind. Which you haven't. They just don't engage with you anymore, because you are gatekeeping and being aggressive towards them.

And I did not miss your sarcasm. I just don't engage with passive aggressiveness in the same manner you opt to do when my world view is challenged.

[KestrelPi]

4 minutes ago, Thrik said:

What a twist if we found out that this mute zombified pirate we’ve been seeing in all the promotional material is actually El Carlo?!

Ok imma level with you I keep on seeing El Carlo get mentioned and I've no idea where it's from.

[Garystu]

3 hours ago, KestrelPi said:

I'd also be fine with it if the ending left it open for other people to tell their own stories in the same world, and my biggest hope for this installment is it might free creators from having to over-worry about canon.

 

Just thinking about the possibilities here makes really wish there was a way to free the franchise from the Disney Vault forever. If its going to be concluding, why not? Sadly, Disney

 

 

2 hours ago, fentongames said:

Yeah, I'm happy with this being the final game (provided the ending delivers, of course!)  I'd rather have an ending now that leaves the series on a good note, ties up as many loose ends as it deems necessary, and features as much of the returning cast and crew as possible, than launch a story-arc that lasts many, many games in which the original talent gradually disappears, reviews and overall appreciation of the series begins to dwindle, the music wanes after the original composers depart, eventually Guybrush has to be recast, etc.

 

Even if the ending was a bizzare screw the audience MI2 style one, I would still think it would be okay. Weird and unsatisfying could be the right note to end on. We'll have to see what happens.

 

Of course the ending could still be outright bad for the wrong reasons. Gotta wait and see etc.

 

But yeah. Ending MI before the franchise rot sets in would be great.

 

This doesn't contradict what I just said to KestrelPi. I would want a finished MI series to be given over to remix culture, ideally. Remix culture does some weird shit but it doesn't create things that could be described as franchise rot in my experience. I hope this makes sense.

 

Sadly, that's never going to happen because Disney

Edited July 26, 2022 by Guybrush Transmasc

[Thrik]

3 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

Ok imma level with you I keep on seeing El Carlo get mentioned and I've no idea where it's from.

It was the originally written villain for MI2. You can read more about him plus some general MI2 draft story here:

 

 

I decided to have a look at the trailer again. Ah man…

 

[KestrelPi]

1 minute ago, Guybrush Transmasc said:

 

Just thinking about the possibilities here makes really wish there was a way to free the franchise from the Disney Vault forever. If its going to be concluding, why not? Sadly, Disney

 

I do think despite misgivings there have been some advantages to Disney. I might not like everything they've done with Star Wars, say, but it IS cool that they're doing stuff with Star Wars, and seem open to exploring different kinds of shows with different vibes in that same universe. I don't think Lucas would have taken this approach on its own.

 

I mean, Disney is the last company that needs defending but I can't lie and say I haven't enjoyed watching some of the stuff that's come out over the last few years... similar with some of the Marvel stuff too. And so I have to say I kind of enjoy their approach of scattergun greenlighting a lot of projects and seeing what sticks.

 

Maybe if they start taking a similar approach with games projects, we might actually end up seeing some more stuff down the road, you never know. It sucks that it's all at their mercy. But eh, it was all at LucasArts' mercy before that, which wasn't honestly working out much better.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Thrik said:

It was the originally written villain for MI2. You can read more about him plus some general MI2 draft story here:

 

 

I decided to have a look at the trailer again. Ah man…

 

Okay, now you say it, I recognise it.

[BaronGrackle]

So "El Carlo" is just the Spanish version of the French "Le Chuck", right?

[madmardi]

Quick question: The voice for the judge reminds me a lot of Griswold Goodsoup, especially when he says "presiding" in the line "Judge plank presiding". Any chance it would be the same voice actor (Kay Kuter)?

 

 

[Udvarnoky]

No. That actor passed away almost twenty years ago. Goodsoup and Velasco are forever, though.

[MurraySchull]

I think he passed away a while back, actually (not certain) so I doubt it's him. He was a voice in Grim Fandango too in the casino scene.

[madmardi]

1 minute ago, Udvarnoky said:

No. That actor passed away almost twenty years ago. Goodsoup and Velasco are forever, though.

 

Oh... didn't realize that. Both great characters though!

[Thrik]

Bless you, old friend.

 

[demone]

Griswold was my favorite supporting character in Curse. A common complaint of that game was how underutilized the supporting cast was. While I largely agree with, especially for Guybrush's crew, Griswold was a real standout. He was also actually pretty integral to the series lore. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by demone

[Vainamoinen]

One of the most clever twists of ReMI's announcement was to "declare" CMI, EMI and Tales canon in the Gilbert-Grossman-verse. Because it keeps us wondering how they're going to treat past lore, what they are going to explicitly honor and what they are going to ignore. What characters besides Murray might be coming back. What places we might re-visit, what history they might reference or even re-stage to bring the newbies up to speed with the lore.

 

Judging from my "WAIT IS THAT MORGAN" moment in the trailer, a whole lot of non-puzzle-adjacent detective work is coming up, and I'll find that quite delicious.

[Jake]

2 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

I've recently seen deleted scenes that folks like you have probably known about for decades.

Many of them were just unearthed recently for the fireside chat with Ron and the Video Game Historical Foundation! (Though a few people on this forum helped with that excavation work!)

[MurraySchull]

Yeah, and there was so much, for lack of a better word, backstory, in the way that Griswold delivered his dialogue. Even when the dialogue didn't necessarily call for it, you could tell that the character had lived a full life, you felt the immense respect that he had for his family, yet there was a sadness in his voice of being the last of his line, and feeling like he's letting the family down with the family hotel business drying up. (Until Guybrush saves the day of course!)

 

On another note... is LeChuck's stress toy La Esponja Grande?... 👀

[BaronGrackle]

52 minutes ago, fentongames said:

Yeah, and there was so much, for lack of a better word, backstory, in the way that Griswold delivered his dialogue. Even when the dialogue didn't necessarily call for it, you could tell that the character had lived a full life, you felt the immense respect that he had for his family, yet there was a sadness in his voice of being the last of his line, and feeling like he's letting the family down with the family hotel business drying up. (Until Guybrush saves the day of course!)

 

On another note... is LeChuck's stress toy La Esponja Grande?... 👀

Related: The Lost Diamond of Blood Island almost has as much lore as Anakin Skywalker's final lightsaber.

 

It arguably *stirs together* the historic family lines of Marley and Goodsoup. Also Guybrush is there.

 

EDIT: Unrelated?: So far, the only on-screen kiss in the Monkey Island Saga has been when Minnie Goodsoup rubbed her ghost lips against Charles DeGoulash's skeletal teeth.

Edited July 26, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[demone]

I know Ron wasn't a fan of Guybrush and Elaine getting married, but I hope he still embraces that plot point. The whole ring mythology is one of my favorite aspects of the series. 

[KestrelPi]

20 minutes ago, demone said:

I know Ron wasn't a fan of Guybrush and Elaine getting married, but I hope he still embraces that plot point. The whole ring mythology is one of my favorite aspects of the series. 

I feel like the Elaine and Guybrush not having got married ship has literally sailed, and Ron's just gonna have to take that one on the chin, but who's to say where they are in their lives many years later?

 

On a replay of Tales that whole ring stuff at the end didn't land as well for me as it did when I first played it. I think it is probably a personal thing, in that over time I have become a little bit less attracted to the idea of marriage as an institution, and I feel like the ending of tales kind of reveres the ideals of marriage in a way I find a bit difficult to relate to, personally (not saying that people shouldn't get married by the way, more saying that I don't like its cultural status as the only valid or at least ultimate expression of love and commitment).

 

So ... in that light, I don't mind if they're married in this one or not, but I expect at least that the marriage won't be retconned. But I hope they don't lay it on thick.

Edited July 26, 2022 by KestrelPi

[demone]

51 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

I feel like the Elaine and Guybrush not having got married ship has literally sailed, and Ron's just gonna have to take that one on the chin, but who's to say where they are in their lives many years later?

 

On a replay of Tales that whole ring stuff at the end didn't land as well for me as it did when I first played it. I think it is probably a personal thing, in that over time I have become a little bit less attracted to the idea of marriage as an institution, and I feel like the ending of tales kind of reveres the ideals of marriage in a way I find a bit difficult to relate to, personally (not saying that people shouldn't get married by the way, more saying that I don't like its cultural status as the only valid or at least ultimate expression of love and commitment).

 

So ... in that light, I don't mind if they're married in this one or not, but I expect at least that the marriage won't be retconned. But I hope they don't lay it on thick.

Yeah, not to turn this into a personal discussion, but I'm not big on marriage either, but for MI, it was really nice to see a lot of genuine emotion as a centerpiece in the storytelling. 

 

There has always been emotion interwoven in the series but I really liked how Tales embraced it a little bit more and how, despite all his bumbling, Guybrush was able to always keep that ring safe. 

[Toymafia88]

Its probably already been said but I do think these Monkey Mondays is a clear sign that the release date is around the corner. 

 

Wonder how long until one of the mondays is a release date/launch trailer or heck they just release the game on a Monkey Monday.

[Jayel]

5 hours ago, Ramen said:

Thanks for the concern, I'm just enjoying my spritzer in the sun, watching the beautiful people passe me by

I'm not really interested in your article, but the art on the header image is great! Wish they had done something like that for ReMI!

As the guy who did the header image for that article, I think ReMI looks great! Its art feels very much like work of an accomplished and technically competent artist going for a particular style (and it is - looking at Rex Crowle's previous works they're jawdroppingly good. Knights and Bikes in particular, you can really tell it was his passion project). No one's wrong to dislike it or disagree with it stylistically, but half the fun in appreciating art is engaging with stuff you don't like, wouldn't you agree

[Niemandswasser]

6 hours ago, Ramen said:

 

I didn't call them facts, I said they were true. 

 

Those are synonyms, professor.

[Vainamoinen]

1 hour ago, demone said:

for MI, it was really nice to see a lot of genuine emotion as a centerpiece in the storytelling.

 

Elaine was first tricked into wearing a cursed ring, then turned and objectified into a literal statue, a mere thing and treasure to be stolen and retrieved and stolen and retrieved. Elaine then gets ten waking seconds to commit an act of domestic violence and is next shown tied up and gagged, having to listen to LeChuck's story how he killed her dad. Next scene, a good demure Christian marriage in white. I have my reservations about CMI's "20 lines of dialog" Elaine plot, and it definitely shouldn't have ended in marriage.

 

It's obvious in LeChuck's Revenge how that was never Ron's plan. Monkey 2 showed us in no uncertain terms that Guybrush chose gold and fame over her, whatever the player did. He wasn't ready for a relationship, let alone marriage. But, what Ron might have been setting up with LeChuck's Revenge was, in a nutshell, a coming of age story arc, to be concluded in a future game.

 

If it was that, Curse has smashed that arc to pieces by declaring the issues between the two resolved or at least so irrelevant that they would of course marry.  I totally understand why Ron would take issue with that.

 

So how do you pick up the pieces of this arc, 25 years after the smashing? By having the characters go their own ways for a good while. Like, Guybrush with the treasure hunting and Elaine with the Marley Foundation. Let them find together anew, define the issues again, then finally have them resolve what truly kept them apart.

 

And that would be an emotional depth that from my point of view CMI didn't have.

 

I don't know whether Ron's the type to not riddle genuine emotional moments with rich and unsavory layers of irony with bacon taste, but I'm absolutely certain that Dave can do it.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Vainamoinen

[Al.DeHyde]

Has anyone else started to panic that they're not going to finish their MI re-playthrough before Return is released? 😅

 

As for the relationship between Elaine and Guybrush; I never had the feeling he chose the map over her in Revenge, just that he went about asking for it in a clumsy way and at an unfortunate time. If some of Return is set between Revenge and Curse, perhaps we will see their relationship grow and fix the potential story arc that @Vainamoinen has pointed out.

 

1 hour ago, Jayel said:

As the guy who did the header image for that article

It's really good! 👍