Return to Monkey Island

[CalisDraws]

14 minutes ago, Udvarnoky said:

What I'm driving at here is that it's highly possible that Ron with absolute creative carte blanche will be delivering something quite a bit different than what many people have already decided in their own heads is "the true vision." I think a lot of frustration can be avoided if people susceptible to that thinking can see the illogic of it. This previaling notion of Ron having a fixed, shrinkwrapped schematic for MI3 since his LucasArts days that exists outside of time and now needs only to be "let out" is a myth, and one that doesn't really acknowledge the reality of how game development works.

 

This! 

Plus, I feel like expectations with the fabled Monkey island 3 have been raised so high for so long that some people will probably be disapointed with it anyway, even if Ron Gilbert was in absolute and complete control of it. I've heard so many times in interviews that if he were to make a new Monkey Island, it wouldn't be the Monkey Island 3 he would have made back then. 

I personally enjoy the dynamic between Elaine and Guybrush in Tales a lot but I wouldn't be opposed at an "alternate timeline" situation where Curse never happened and their marriage didn't either. 

I'm just really happy to see that these games are still loved to this day, I recently played them all (except 4 because I just couldn't figure out the controls...) and I am so happy that I'll get to play one right as it releases... so happy to be excited about a classic adventure game releasing in the year 2022!

[Udvarnoky]

Of course there was not a 100% set in stone story but there has to be a blue print, a skeleton of the story. Elaine marrying Guybrush would invalidate it.

 

 

It wouldn't invalidate it if Ron has come to feel differently in the 25 years since CMI came out. I am not saying he did. But I do find this idea of "validness" in the first place a little disturbing. If Ron decided on it, then it's valid by defintion. Diagnosing the "legitimacy" of the content of this game on any other basis leads only to krazytown.

[Asterothe]

Brainstorming about our favorite  game series should not be labeled going to Krazytown.  There won't be any disappointment as long as they release the game for me. I'm super happy no matter what.  After having 30 years for MI3a, I expect to play the real story Ron had in mind but unless he tells it, we won't know what are the differences between his original vision vs the released version. Guybrush and Elaine marrying is not a minor detail I don't expect him to flip flop on that idea.  We will see when the game is out. LucasFilm tweet and Ron's blog post from 2013 indicated that the game would resume from where MI2 ended.  I hope for that to hold and some elements of CMI are included by some clever story telling.   

[Goury1]

12 minutes ago, Udvarnoky said:

 

 

 

It wouldn't invalidate it if Ron has come to feel differently in the 25 years since CMI came out. I am not saying he did. But I do find this idea of "validness" in the first place a little disturbing. If Ron decided on it, then it's valid by defintion. Diagnosing the "legitimacy" of the content of this game on any other basis leads only to krazytown.

Ok... Ok... Let us all have faith in Ron and simply enjoy whatever he delivers!   Can we all agree to this?

[Udvarnoky]

4 minutes ago, Asterothe said:

Brainstorming about our favorite  game series should not be labeled going to Krazytown.  

 

Certainly not. It's specifically the No True Scotsman tack that I cannot help pushing back on. And it's only because I've encountered this line of thinking in the past and have seen what it metastasizes into if left unchallenged. Please feel welcome to brainstorm away uninhibited.

[Rum Rogers]

2 hours ago, Asterothe said:

 

For MI fans, that have been waiting the real conclusion of the story.  A good story definitely makes a game great. It being changed for some executive decision would be sad especially after having waited 30 years. I'd always take a MI game with Ron over without him (or any Ron adventure since he has to yet disappoint me) but as a purist and die hard MI1-2 fan I want the real MI3a. There will be changes and it won't be the game he would release in 1992 for sure but it has to be his conclusion picking up from the end of MI2.  And LucasFilm tweet even indicated that. So him saying CMI is cannot is a bit confusing. Barrowing from a few elements from CMI with a clever story telling is all I hope for. 

 

It seems pretty clear to me that the secret of Monkey Island, whatever that is, bends reality and its conception. He didn't say he'll accept everything, perhaps CMI and the rest are just an alternative reality whose existence is justified by RMI. Raw guessing but I have a gut feeling this is gonna happen one way or another. TWP anyone?

[Glokidd]

I throw this everywhere but it's on topic atm

 

If for whatever reason CMI and on had to not be the future for Ron to tell his story (which his tweet possibly implies to not be the case) I think that those stories could live on in the form of Guybrushes Tall Tales of pirate adventure he made up after everyone got bored of his LeChuck story

 

Maybe Elaine's prolific writing career sparked a competitive streak, running into all those books of hers in the Phatt library made him want to write something to retort but he was to preoccupied with piratey adventure to write anything else

 

This would work in a couple of ways, guybrush embellished the details: he's a little taller, little better looking, he got the girl, he got a restaurant themed after him.

 

Here's the thing though, in this scenario, he was never able to imagine a better villain than Lechuck. He tried to make something completely different and unexpected with Ozzie Mandril but still had to put LeChuck under his control to make him a real threat in Guybrushes mind. If anything it solidifies that Guybrush is terrified of LC  he is our boys ultimate bogeyman.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Glokidd
spelling, removed a competitive steak

[maritzac]

I personally want Elaine and Guybrush to be married. I really enjoyed their dynamic in Tales, as a power couple. Chain-and-ball "jokes" are tiresome and dated, and Guybrush as a character gets annoying (and a bit creepy) when trying to play suave with women.

[maritzac]

Also, in Phatt's library there are several books of his own.

[ThunderPeel2001]

4 hours ago, Goury1 said:

 I feel exactly the same! I've waited for many years to know Ron's version of the story! I would feel quite a bit sad if the plot of RTMI was somehow modified to make sure it dosn't contradict COMI. Getting to know Ron's original idea is what gets me excited the most about the new game...

 

I wouldn't overthink it, Ron revealed during his Video Game History Foundation deep dive (see here: https://gamehistory.org/monkeyisland/) that he didn't have many plans beyond Guybrush going to hell. And he's also said that if he made MI3 now it wouldn't be the same game he would have made back then (it simply couldn't be, he's a different guy).

 

We're just getting what Ron wants to do right now. I'm looking forward to it!

[ThunderPeel2001]

6 hours ago, Goury1 said:

I'm very curious how Ron Gilbert will be able to tell his own version of the story and keep COMI as part of the Canon at the same time. I'm personally opting for a multiverse type of solution. It would give Ron the creative freedom to tell his own story and still keep COMI intact. It would also explain how Murray can be featured in the new game, even though we only meet him for the first time at the beginning of COMI. Maybe Guybrush will vistit alternative timelines at one point of RTMI and meet Murray there... Just a thought...  

 

The game starts directly after MI2 and doesn't negate CMI, so the obvious solution (which I hope Ron is doing) is to simply explain what happened between Guybrush being a kid and ending up in a sea worthy bumper car. (And maybe he can explain how Guybrush became so phobic of porcelain in the process.)

[CalisDraws]

I'm personally gonna be fine with any story he wants to tell with this game, I'm mostly curious about what Guybrush, LeChuck and Elaine are going to look like!

I can't wait to see their design in this new artstyle!! Also I would really really really love it if the cover art/box art for the game was made by Steve Purcell... please. 🙏

[maritzac]

seconded

[Romão]

This probably thinking too far ahead, but do you think this new game could lead to even more Ron Gilbert Monkey Island games?

[maritzac]

I am guessing it will largely depend on its economic success, so get to hyping

[ThunderPeel2001]

On 4/7/2022 at 12:40 AM, ThunderPeel2001 said:

I agree with assessment that 1 is a more enjoyable game. It's the one I fell in love with (like no other game before it). And I was absolutely over the moon when 2 was released... but something was always "off" for me. Guybrush quite simply wasn't Guybrush. He really is a completely different character, and I missed the sweetness and charm of the original game.

 

Of course I still played MI2 to death, and eventually learned to love MI2 for what it was. I now adore the world and the atmosphere. (Although I think back and I can't believe how much I suffered with those 11 disks on my Amiga!! Every change of scene required loading and swapping. And the second disk drive did nothing to help. I learned Zen patience from playing MI2...)

 

However there was another thread running throughout the game that I picked up on: The pressure to make a sequel. Guybrush is constantly complaining that blowing up LeChuck wasn't enough, and he feels under pressure to do something bigger and better. Was that the writers echoing the pressure they felt making the game?

 

It also seemed they basically stopped writing dialogue by the time Guybrush got to LeChuck's Fortress (everything is "Nice sign", "Nice door", "Nice skull"). Did they care less? And the ending itself is completely without joy. Merely a shock for the audience. (Although we all love it now... a lot of us were scarred by that ending!)

 

There's even digs at MI2 within the game itself: Phatt Library famously includes a book with quotes from Hal Barwood (of Fate of Atlantis fame) on Monkey Island 2: "You can't polish a turd." and "Less is more."

 

So this undercurrent made me feel the developers themselves weren't particularly happy, which had led to a less joyful game.

 

I got to ask Ron Gilbert about this when he came to London. I'd waited 15 years for the opportunity! He thought for a moment and said, "Yeah, I can see why you'd say that, but we weren't under pressure. I actually start making MI2 before anyone at LucasArts had given us the greenlight. I thought it would be better to ask forgiveness than permission." So there you go.

 

Of course, I'd love to know what Grossman, Schafer and Borowick have to say!

 

(I also got to ask Barwood about that book in an email interview that I tragically lost. He said he felt it was the programmer's way of making fun of the pithy snippets of wisdom he'd share.)

 

And here's the photo from that night in Feb 2017! It really incredible meeting him. He seemed very chilled out, but incredibly smart. And Jenn Sandercock (who is now working on Return to MI) took this photo.

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[Goury1]

9 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

The game starts directly after MI2 and doesn't negate CMI, so the obvious solution (which I hope Ron is doing) is to simply explain what happened between Guybrush being a kid and ending up in a sea worthy bumper car. (And maybe he can explain how Guybrush became so phobic of porcelain in the process.)

 

If RTMI was merely an in-between-quel, then Murry couldn't be in it. Yet he is featured in the game... I'm sticking to my multiverse theory! 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Goury1

[OzzieMonkey]

16 minutes ago, Goury1 said:

 

If RTMI was merely an in-between-quel, then Murry couldn't be in it. Yet he is featured in the game... I'm sticking to my multiverse theory! 

Thinking about it a bit, is it possible that Ron gets to tell his post-MI2 part of the story, show what the real deal was with that game's ending, then once Guybrush escapes the carnival we get a time skip, whereby the events of Curse-Tales could've happened or not depending on your preference? You could be vague enough to just say "then Guybrush went on to have many adventures over the course of a decade, here's where he is now". Considering how each game has already been seperated into "parts" AND bits of narration it could work pretty easily.  Then you can have Stan, Murray, Morgan LeFlay, whoever you want from any of the games show up in the later part of the game, and Ron can take the story in whatever direction he wants because now it's a clean slate. Of course, yes, the multiverse could happen too, hell, we already have 2 Guybrush Threepwoods in universe, one with the middle name Q and one with a U. I'd love a gag where, say, the Voodoo Lady shows Guybrush a universe where Herman is Elaine's Grandpa and he just laughs at how ridiculous it is before never entering that one again 😂

Edited April 8, 2022 by OzzieMonkey

[Goury1]

4 minutes ago, OzzieMonkey said:

I'd love a gag where, say, the Voodoo Lady shows Guybrush a universe where Herman is Elaine's Grandpa and he just laughs at how ridiculous it is before never entering that one again 😂

 

I've had exactly the same idea for a gag! The multiverse would explain the whole "Herman Toothroot is Elaine's grandfather" retcon.  COMI, EFMI and TOMI could be separate versions of reality. In gact, I would enjoy EFMI more if I knew that the whole Herman Toothroot thing and the giant Monkey Robot under Monkey Island thing  simply belong to an alternative reality, separate from the Ron Gilbert's plotline. 

[Laserschwert]

I could imagine there being a narrative framing of Guybrush telling the story himself (like in MI2), which would justify any inconsistencies with the other games. I'd say that's certainly more likely than stuff like time-traveling or multiverses.

[Marius]

3 minutes ago, Laserschwert said:

I could imagine there being a narrative framing of Guybrush telling the story himself (like in MI2), which would justify any inconsistencies with the other games. I'd say that's certainly more likely than stuff like time-traveling or multiverses.

"And then we go married!"

"What?"

[OzzieMonkey]

The main reason I've thought time travel or multiverses might be a thing was because I think ATM mentioned once that Ron implied their existence, but he would know more about that than me and could correct me if I'm off base on that.

[OzzieMonkey]

1 minute ago, Marius said:

"And then we go married!"

"What?"

Haha, now I'm picturing Guybrush sitting with Bart and Fink, maybe others telling this story. That sounds hilarious!

[Lagomorph01]

10 hours ago, CalisDraws said:

Also I would really really really love it if the cover art/box art for the game was made by Steve Purcell... please. 

Thirded!!

 

Also, i kinda hate multiverses. They’re such a cheap way to retcon stuff or add fanservice. When you’re a writer, just have the balls to make a story and make it fit within established canon.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Lagomorph01

[Kroms]

Between MI's anachronisms and MI2's ending, it's not like in-universe reality isn't haphazard anyway.