Return to Monkey Island

[KestrelPi]

3 minutes ago, Knight Owl said:

Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but I wonder if Ron saying that this game isn't "MI6" is a hint to this game not taking place linearly in time. Ron has called Curse MI3, and I have to wonder, what makes that game MI3 any more than this game is MI6? The only technically numbered game in the series is 2, so I don't really see what's wrong with fans calling the rest of the games in the series by their number in the order they came out – that is, unless Ron was actually referring to the chronology of this game's story, which I believe Dave called "amorphous."

 

Yeah, this is the thing that's making me think it's not going to be QUITE as simple as a time skip.

 

There are a few things we know:

 

* The game starts where MI2 leaves off.

* The bulk of the game is set in a time where it's been years since Guybrush has faced LeChuck

* Some characters seem to look older

* Noah Falstein thinks that something that happens in the opening the game is really clever, surprising and impressive from a storytelling perspective.

 

Wildly extrapolating from this, I think that in the opening of the game we're going to discover how you get from a kid at a theme park to an older, washed out Guybrush. And the thing that Noah was hinting at will be something to do with that, and it's not going to be quite as simple as '30 years later'. It's going to be more mysterious, and more clever, and it's going to, perhaps, give us a bit of insight in to just how that carnival relates to what Guybrush and his world are actually all about.

[KestrelPi]

6 minutes ago, Vainamoinen said:

 

The Voodoo Lady's full head of grey hair would be the first thing I'd mention. And probably the only one. A lot of these aging signs seem ambiguous to me. The Lookout especially was the "old man" stereotype 30 years ago already.

 

 

I think that's her green turban, but the lighting is making it look confusing.

 

As for the lookout, I dunno. I always imagined the original lookout was kind of around his 50s or something. I thought the special edition aged him up too much. Although when he looks out toward the water when the governor is kidnapped, you can see that he's balding in that, so perhaps there's not much difference there.

[Knight Owl]

Sorry to keep bringing this up, but I just saw a youtube comment saying something like:

 

"Music and story: Great! Artstyle: not so much..."

 

A replier then called them a "clown," and later revealed that they called them that because the original comment didn't hate the artstyle enough. I feel like this game's discourse has hit rock bottom. The trailer on the Nintendo channel has a 50% dislike ratio (you can see dislikes with a chrome extension) which kinda hurts my soul

[Vainamoinen]

24 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

I think that's her green turban, but the lighting is making it look confusing.

 

Ohhhh you could be right!! Still, a full grey afro would be cool.

[KestrelPi]

7 minutes ago, Knight Owl said:

Sorry to keep bringing this up, but I just saw a youtube comment saying something like:

 

"Music and story: Great! Artstyle: not so much..."

 

A replier then called them a "clown," and later revealed that they called them that because the original comment didn't hate the artstyle enough. I feel like this game's discourse has hit rock bottom. The trailer on the Nintendo channel has a 50% dislike ratio (you can see dislikes with a chrome extension) which kinda hurts my soul

 

It's a bit sad, but at some point yesterday I think I made peace with it. If some people want to build a personal hell for themselves by not being able to enjoy a long anticipated game that until a few months back we weren't even sure would ever exist, because they don't like the look then... I can't help them. It's their loss.

 

Unfortunate, and also hurts a little to think that any of the creators involved might be disheartened, but also when RG retweeted me yesterday I was reassured of the thing that I have always believed about this, which is that pushing positivity into the world is the best way to help with that.

[Toymafia88]

I love how the new design looks like a marriage of MI2 and Curse with Rex's unique touch as the icing on the cake.

 

Sadly my friends who like Monkey Island are all telling me they don't like the new style.

 

Eh, it is what is. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Toymafia88

[Jake]

I have to remember “if this was 1996, instead of exploding all over the comments section, these people would have seen these images in PC gamer, said ‘oh well,’ and gone about their lives,” and try to make myself do the same when I see the comments.

[madmardi]

Just now, KestrelPi said:

 

It's a bit sad, but at some point yesterday I think I made peace with it. If some people want to build a personal hell for themselves by not being able to enjoy a long anticipated game that until a few months back we weren't even sure would ever exist, because they don't like the look then... I can't help them. It's their loss.

 

Unfortunate, and also hurts a little to think that any of the creators involved might be disheartened, but also when RG retweeted me yesterday I was reassured of the thing that I have always believed about this, which is that pushing positivity into the world is the best way to help with that.

 

I really like your attitude. I've been having difficulties myself not engaging with some of the comments, but I have to keep telling myself that it really won't change anything. Like you said, we can't help them if they choose to let their opinion of the graphics sour everything else.

 

Times like this I'm really glad for this thread of positivity, as I can't help but be sad when I read all the negative comments everywhere else on the internet (and its a lot unfortunately). I really hope Ron has a thick skin and is happy with his choices (I am!). It's just unfortunate that he has to endure this level of hate. Honestly, I don't understand why people would't just be excited to have another game. I've never been so embarrassed of the monkey island fandom.

 

But like you said, "pushing positivity into the world is the best way to help with that", so I'm going to try follow your lead and just get more and more excited.

 

Okay, enough of a rant... off to watch the trailer... again!

[KestrelPi]

Mm. If anything it makes me more determined to give the game a chance. Like, give it the benefit of the doubt. I'm much more likely to be charitable towards a game that is striving towards something, and doesn't quite reach it, than I am towards a game that does a pretty good job at playing it safe.

 

I guess that's why I can't quite hate EMI, even though I have a ton of problems with it - it's going for something quite unique within the series, and why I can't quite completely love CMI, even though I like it a lot and it gets a lot right in my opinion - you can sense how safe it's playing it (though I guess at the time the art style was bold)

Edited June 29, 2022 by KestrelPi

[Garystu]

I was going to say "the thing that ruins the "everyone is older" theory for me is Elaine". But I doubled checked, just to be sure. And sure enough, she has crow's feet in the promo art!

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Guybrush Transmasc

[KestrelPi]

Oh I forgot to point out, obviously I was right all those pages ago.

 

[Vainamoinen]

6 minutes ago, Guybrush Transmasc said:

I was going to say "the thing that ruins the "everyone is older" theory for me is Elaine". But I doubled checked, just to be sure. And sure enough, she has crow's feet in the promo art!

 

Yet not in the trailer. But the smile she sports in the promo art means that the respective muscles are contracted, hence the wrinkles known as "crow's feet" form for the duration of the smile.

 

19 minutes ago, madmardi said:

Times like this I'm really glad for this thread of positivity, as I can't help but be sad when I read all the negative comments everywhere else on the internet (and its a lot unfortunately). [...] But like you said, "pushing positivity into the world is the best way to help with that", so I'm going to try follow your lead and just get more and more excited.

 

I'm usually loud and proud about these things, but yeah ... it can get you down. And 'offensive' positivity will only get you so far. You can't really confront the naysayers with positivity. It's more helpful if you take your positivity where the naysayers can't reach it. I'm employing a hit and run strategy these days. Blurp a positive and hopefully knowledgeable post into a negative community, then run and hide.

 

It's what Guybrush would do.

[KestrelPi]

1 minute ago, Vainamoinen said:

 

I'm usually loud and proud about these things, but yeah ... it can get you down. And 'offensive' positivity will only get you so far. You can't really confront the naysayers with positivity. It's more helpful if you take your positivity where the naysayers can't reach it. I'm employing a hit and run strategy these days. Blurp a positive and hopefully knowledgeable post into a negative community, then run and hide.

 

It's what Guybrush would do.

 

Right, it's the advice I give myself, for sure, but I'm not always good at following it. I want to just counterbalance negative with something a bit more positive but sometimes it's REALLY really hard not to say 'Nope, I think you're wrong and this is why you're wrong and even if you're not wrong you're being an asshole about it,'. Sometimes you want to confront. And confrontation does -sometimes- work. Usually not straightaway.

 

But... like if you've ever thought back to a time in your life when you've had an argument and felt a bit attacked but now realise 'oh, actually I WAS the asshole in that situation' then you'll recognise that sometimes being confronted has a way of working on your conscience.

 

So my thinking has shifted towards ... 'is this confrontation worth my time?' and the answer is very often no.

 

But, as someone who makes stuff myself, I know that no matter how many times I hear it, and no matter how experienced I get it's always a joy to be told by someone that they like my work. So that's always a good thing to do.

[Vainamoinen]

New theory for why there's still no release date:

Terrible Toybox is self-censoring Guybrush's nose for the domestic market. 🇺🇸

 

 

[Rum Rogers]

1 hour ago, Jake said:

I have to remember “if this was 1996, instead of exploding all over the comments section, these people would have seen these images in PC gamer, said ‘oh well,’ and gone about their lives,” and try to make myself do the same when I see the comments.

I made the mistake to comment a little too much on Ron's blog. It's making me furious, I'll have to stop for my own peace of mind.

[Dmnkly]

Not to resurrect a contentious issue that appears to have died down, but imma just say that I wouldn't get too hung up on trying to precisely nail down numbering/timeline/etc. I think it is elegantly handled.

[BillyCheers]

2 minutes ago, Dmnkly said:

Not to resurrect a contentious issue that appears to have died down, but imma just say that I wouldn't get too hung up on trying to precisely nail down numbering/timeline/etc. I think it is elegantly handled.

So „Monkey Island 3a: The Secret Revealed or your money back“ it is. Great! 😍

[Rum Rogers]

OK, I'm SO outta there.

 

[BillyCheers]

I have to say, I'm actually really glad that I like the graphics of "Return" so much!

Rex Crowle's style is, in my opinion, much closer to the first two parts than the other games - and I think it's the most coherent of all! Everything fits together so well: From the backgrounds, to the characters, to the animation. It just seems like it's all of one piece (dunno if the expression is right...). You don't have to like it, but it's certainly not cheap or unfinished, as some "haters" claim.

 

I remember being pretty disappointed with the look of Tales when it was first announced with the trailer. It actually seemed kind of cheap and unfinished to me, and I still think the first chapter isn't really "pretty". But when I played the first episode, everything already seemed better while playing and especially the story and mood convinced me. Also, from chapters 2 and 3 on, it was noticeable that Telltale really put in the effort to improve the graphics within the scope of possibilities (thanks, Wii...). The character models became better/different and the lighting more elaborate, so that I was really pleased with the game's visuals in the end. I'm still not convinced by some of the design choices (I don't like LeChuck's look at all in his zombie form, for example), but later, everything looks very coherent, especially in Episode 4 and 5. It's a shame it wasn't like that from the start... (Remaster please?) Either way, though, the game was otherwise really great! 🥰
To make a long story short: I can understand if one finds that the look of "Tales" looks a bit cheap and unfinished (at the beginning), but in "Return" everything, to me, is very elaborated and crafted with a lot of time and love - at least if you go by the trailer.

And apart from that, the graphic style is also only one aspect of many ( even if it's the most prominent one). 🙂

 

I really do hope that people, who hate the art style that much right now, will give it a chance and get used to it. Because: This game just looks like it'll be awesome!

[Dmnkly]

KestrelPi, I hope you don't mind that I ganked your screenshots (with credit for choosing them!) for use in a discussion over on Twitter.

[Thrik]

I posted this on Twitter, but thought it worth noting here how the final Guybrush design wasn’t so far off the early concept Rex sent to Ron in the end.

 

[Radogol]

1 hour ago, Dmnkly said:

Not to resurrect a contentious issue that appears to have died down, but imma just say that I wouldn't get too hung up on trying to precisely nail down numbering/timeline/etc. I think it is elegantly handled.

 

You know what we need? We need to misunderstand the quote about Tales of Monkey Island being set after a hypothetical Monkey Island 5 again. That will add the spice back to the debate!

[Staple Remover]

3 hours ago, Vainamoinen said:

New theory for why there's still no release date:

Terrible Toybox is self-censoring Guybrush's nose for the domestic market. 🇺🇸

 

 

They’ve got the replacement ready to go!

[Staple Remover]

Ok I’ve got my ridiculous speculation: Return to Monkey Island branches out across the entire timeline, with flashback chapters on Melee that take place right after MI1, and chapters taking place between each of the games in the series (maybe not EMI but Tales)

[Staple Remover]

1 hour ago, Rum Rogers said:

OK, I'm SO outta there.

 

This bums me out pretty good… my only hope is that any person associated with the development of this game knows about this site and reads what we have to say instead of such toxic nonsense.