Return to Monkey Island

[KestrelPi]

Interestingly, the vegetation of Melee Island doesn't look a lot like that of a caribbean island to me. There aren't many trees of that type in any picture I've seen of the caribbean for real.

 

 

And yet to change the trees would be to really change the character of the location.

 

 

I have to imagine the artists drew inspiration from closer to home. The forest does remind me a bit more of the kind of thing you find around California

 

 

Of course, there's always been the question of how deep in the Caribbean we really are...

[Lechuck]

Yes Melee Island is much more Americana isn't it... that first picture feels like Dinky Island, though.

[Jake]

I’m not going to claim “it’s all Disneyland,” but Tom Sawyer’s Island in both the CA and Florida park has always had a good mix of foliage that feels “adventurous” without being explicitly regionally tropical. 
 

 

[Thrik]

23 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

The Secret of Monkey Island is that it's an interdimentional nexus leading to and from different versions of itself and possibly everywhere else too.

 

Sure. I'll buy it.

 

I think it was @Marius who first connected some dots around this (and the fact that you start MI2 next to a weenie hut), but anyway…

 

 

Is the entrance to Big Whoop actually the Melee Island arch, where Guybrush meets the blind lookout?

 

Okay, but Big Whoop sure looks like Booty Island too, right? Where there’s… a deaf lookout?

 

And is it possible that, actually, I am insane?

[Lechuck]

14 minutes ago, Jake said:

I’m not going to claim “it’s all Disneyland,” but Tom Sawyer’s Island in both the CA and Florida park has always had a good mix of foliage that feels “adventurous” without being explicitly regionally tropical. 
 

 

 

I was just going to say something similar - going with the theme park theory - it's like he's wandered from New Orleans square into a bordering section. And then Adventureland is right next to it for the tropics and the natives...

[demone]

10 hours ago, OzzieMonkey said:

I love the glow peeking out. Seriously, this game's use of lighting in general has just blown me away so far. I've tweeted about this briefly, but I imagine that the game will freely ignore the giant robot blowing it up in Escape. I will be very surprised if they try to explain it. Just one of those "canon can get in the way of a good story" moments that Dave Grossman alluded to, I think. 

Yeah, I think the robot and Herman being Elaine's grandfather will be completely ignored. Not refuted but ignored which I think will make all the difference for anyone wanting to make their own headcanons to still embrace those aspects.

 

I think they will still reference other aspects of Escape. Carla being governor after last being seen looking forward to a cushy government job courtesy of a signed contract from Guybrush could very well be a reference. 

[KestrelPi]

5 minutes ago, Thrik said:

I think it was @Marius who first connected some dots around this (and the fact that you start MI2 next to a weenie hut), but anyway…

 

 

Is the entrance to Big Whoop actually the Melee Island arch, where Guybrush meets the blind lookout?

 

Okay, but Big Whoop sure looks like Booty Island too, right? Where there’s… a deaf lookout?

 

And is it possible that, actually, I am insane?

 

I always figured that since the ending came together so fast they just adapted the background that could most easily be made to look like a theme park, but now i see them side by side they are a bit different, aren't they?

 

[Thrik]

Yes I always thought the same. At one point I looked at them more closely and they do seem to be two entirely different paintings.

 

[Garystu]

25 minutes ago, demone said:

Yeah, I think the robot and Herman being Elaine's grandfather will be completely ignored. Not refuted but ignored which I think will make all the difference for anyone wanting to make their own headcanons to still embrace those aspects.

 

I think they will still reference other aspects of Escape. Carla being governor after last being seen looking forward to a cushy government job courtesy of a signed contract from Guybrush could very well be a reference. 

Even if Carla is just the governer "just because", I'd buy it. Other than Elaine, she was the most capable of the Melee's inhabitants of being governer.

 

In the real world, a government job usually isn't on the career path to becoming a politician. A government job is more like a public servant role, and career politician is something different. Of course, that's nitpicking, and I'd believe it in a story. Why not.

 

I hope they don't ignore Herman becoming governer, because him leaving that role to become a hermit again Just Fits. Its perfect.

[MurraySchull]

24 minutes ago, demone said:

Yeah, I think the robot and Herman being Elaine's grandfather will be completely ignored. Not refuted but ignored which I think will make all the difference for anyone wanting to make their own headcanons to still embrace those aspects.

 

I at least would like people to have the option to consider Curse - Tales canon if they want to. Otherwise, we'd end up with a franchise where each entry is at war with the other and retconning the parts they don't like (i.e. the Terminator sequels or the Star Wars sequel trilogy). I personally feel that breaks the illusion of the games feeling like a continuous story, which you could argue that Escape does in a few places, but now that those events have happened, I'd rather they were sidestepped and ignored in future entries than completely undone. Hell, Tales still makes references to the events of Escape, so if Tales is still canon (going by the image of Morgan in the scrapbook) then so is Escape. And you know what? That's as it should be! 😎

[MurraySchull]

3 minutes ago, Guybrush Transmasc said:

I hope they don't ignore Herman becoming governer, because him leaving that role to become a hermit again Just Fits. Its perfect.

 

Yeah, I'd be interested to see if Herman/Horatio being governor is referenced. (Or even if he'll be referred to as Horario for that matter!)  Even in SMI, though, he has a boat and could've escaped Monkey Island all along, but he still chose to be a hermit for 20 years, so I'd imagine he just has a preference for it at this point!

[Vainamoinen]

I'm going to step in and say that an accurate depiction of the Caribbean might not be the primary focus of a game that displays "pieces of eight" as gold coins instead of silver.

[KestrelPi]

4 minutes ago, Vainamoinen said:

I'm going to step in and say that an accurate depiction of the Caribbean might not be the primary focus of a game that displays "pieces of eight" as gold coins instead of silver.

 

Of course, I think so too, but it's still interesting that the first location in the game is also probably the most obviously un-caribbean looking one.

[KestrelPi]

1 hour ago, fentongames said:

 

I at least would like people to have the option to consider Curse - Tales canon if they want to. Otherwise, we'd end up with a franchise where each entry is at war with the other and retconning the parts they don't like (i.e. the Terminator sequels or the Star Wars sequel trilogy). I personally feel that breaks the illusion of the games feeling like a continuous story, which you could argue that Escape does in a few places, but now that those events have happened, I'd rather they were sidestepped and ignored in future entries than completely undone. Hell, Tales still makes references to the events of Escape, so if Tales is still canon (going by the image of Morgan in the scrapbook) then so is Escape. And you know what? That's as it should be! 😎

 

I do agree with some of this, and I think what they've said means that's what they're going for. I'm glad for it, really because the bit that I was always least excited about when Ronzo used to bring it up was the whole idea of him making 'his' MI3. It was interesting, academically, to think what that might be but not really... it, for me. I don't think Monkey Island has been handed a terrible lot. Since he Ieft it had 3rd game that is better than it had any right to be considering none of the original writers were involved, a 4th game which... has its fans, even if the consensus isn't too kind to it, and an episodic series which he was at least consulted on, involved one of the original writers and was moderately well recieved.

 

When I think of all the violence that COULD have been commited upon the name of Monkey Island in the space of 30 years, that's not bad at all.

 

If he left the table with a flush, and when he came back he was handed a full house, I'd rather see what he does with the full house than have him flip the table and demand a do over and his flush back.

[ThunderPeel2001]

2 hours ago, fentongames said:

 

I at least would like people to have the option to consider Curse - Tales canon if they want to. Otherwise, we'd end up with a franchise where each entry is at war with the other and retconning the parts they don't like (i.e. the Terminator sequels or the Star Wars sequel trilogy). I personally feel that breaks the illusion of the games feeling like a continuous story, which you could argue that Escape does in a few places, but now that those events have happened, I'd rather they were sidestepped and ignored in future entries than completely undone. Hell, Tales still makes references to the events of Escape, so if Tales is still canon (going by the image of Morgan in the scrapbook) then so is Escape. And you know what? That's as it should be! 😎

 

Yeah, if they just pretended there's no giant monkey robots around, that'll be fine by me. Trying to explain away EMI's oddities would probably be more effort than it's worth.

[Vainamoinen]

33 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Yeah, if they just pretended there's no giant monkey robots around, that'll be fine by me. Trying to explain away EMI's oddities would probably be more effort than it's worth.

 

They're ignoring the robot monkeys, I'm certain of it.

Dave: We talked all about canon and these other games, and the fact that we liked them, and the audience liked them, and so we made it our point of philosophy to adhere to canon wherever possible, but with two caveats. One of which is, it’s actually kind of hard to keep track of everything that’s canon, and some of these other games don’t even agree with each other. So a little bit of paradox is necessary and probably healthy for us as creators and as human beings. And the other caveat is that too much canon can get in the way of the story you’re trying to tell, so we decided that we would adhere to canon unless it was going to get in the way, and we would ignore some minor details if we needed to.

https://adventuregamers.com/articles/view/ron-gilbert-dave-grossman-return-to-monkey-island

 

There isn't much that can get more in the way of telling a good pirate story than giant monkey robots.

[Remi]

27 minutes ago, Vainamoinen said:

 

They're ignoring the robot monkeys, I'm certain of it.

Dave: We talked all about canon and these other games, and the fact that we liked them, and the audience liked them, and so we made it our point of philosophy to adhere to canon wherever possible, but with two caveats. One of which is, it’s actually kind of hard to keep track of everything that’s canon, and some of these other games don’t even agree with each other. So a little bit of paradox is necessary and probably healthy for us as creators and as human beings. And the other caveat is that too much canon can get in the way of the story you’re trying to tell, so we decided that we would adhere to canon unless it was going to get in the way, and we would ignore some minor details if we needed to.

https://adventuregamers.com/articles/view/ron-gilbert-dave-grossman-return-to-monkey-island

 

There isn't much that can get more in the way of telling a good pirate story than giant monkey robots.

 

I don't disagree, but it isn't exactly a "minor detail." I have a decent feeling they'll keep it in.

[MurraySchull]

I'm even wondering if a small section of the game might even take place in the "real world" so to speak. i.e. with Guybrush/Chuckie/Guybrush's parents at their modern-day home. Perhaps as the game nears its' climax and the answers to how the world works is revealed.

 

The Carnival at the end of MI2 didn't seem to be at any particular timeframe, though I think the 90's would be appropriate. Then we have to jump back and forth between being a kid the real world and being an adult in the fantasy world. I know it sounds kindof out there, but given the ending of MI2, I don't think it's too unrealistic to consider.

 

(And, just saying, this would also be a way the Giant Monkey Robot could still work in the story!)

[demone]

In terms of the Giant Monkey Robot, I would ask how critical is it to the overall lore of the series? I just think having to explain how there was a robot that was actually and yet not actually the monkey head and how it's back in its original position might be more trouble to explain than it's worth, especially if the monkey head becomes a critical location again, which is all but confirmed that it will be. 

 

I hope that they still view Escape as canon and reference it, but the robot I have no issue with that just being left alone for fans to fill in the blanks. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by demone

[madmardi]

6 hours ago, KestrelPi said:

Interestingly, the vegetation of Melee Island doesn't look a lot like that of a caribbean island to me. There aren't many trees of that type in any picture I've seen of the caribbean for real.

 

 

 

Depends on where in the Caribbean you are... Melee with the pine forests reminds me more of The Bahamas.. but then again, the Bahamas is flat, not mountainous.

[madmardi]

Besides, if they can change Guybrush's character model so drastically between games, what's so different from changing between pines and palms?

[ThunderPeel2001]

2 hours ago, fentongames said:

(And, just saying, this would also be a way the Giant Monkey Robot could still work in the story!)

 

Nobody wants to see that thing again, so why would they try and build a conceit to bring it back?

[Scummbuddy]

Why can't the monkey head that was part of the robot not just be the "third" biggest monkey head that Guybrush has ever seen, conveniently also situated on Monkey Island? I mean, with so many giant monkey heads laying about it's no wonder they named the island after it...

 

[Romão]

I know we all tend to associate the Caribbean with palm trees, but there's a huge variety of vegetation all around the region.

 

There are pine forests in the island of Hispaniola (shared between Haiti and the Dominican Republic) and Cuba, for example.

 

 

 

 

So even bearing mind it is a fictional location, nothing seems too far fetched to me in Melee Island in terms of vegetation. 

 

I would argue, perhaps, that the architecture might feel a bit too medieval or European. But the whole thing just oozes charm and atmosphere

[Romão]

It's also pretty cool to see pretty much all the islands from the Monkey Island games featured in the book Atlas of Imagined Places, and Melee was placed pretty close to Hispaniola, which makes the dominance of coniferous forests on the island even less far fetched (enlarge for greater detail):

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Romão