Guest Jolts Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Toonces Also, any chance of seeing a "ragdoll" type physics system implemented? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's a definite "maybe". -- Ghoul2 craves ragdoll physics it needs it like anime needs huge eyes and pointy chins. I know you want it, I know you know we want. I know you know that we know that you know you want to add it. But now that you've announced it, are you guys using xsi 3.0 for this? I know theres a xsi 3.0 importer/exporter for maya and that would help maya users create new models. I'm not sure if it geeks out like converting maya to obj somtimes adds double faces and flips normals around and jacks everything up. Any chance of maya support this time? little pixel shading? bump mapping? radiosity lighting....6 years from now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSurfer Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Ahhh, like in UT2003. Those death scenes pwn majorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyOneCanoli Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Wow, I missed a lot today. Mike, you kick ass. Thanks so much for taking the time to give us the lowdown. Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN] We are planning on adding one entirely new MP game type, but we're not discussing it right now... The suspense is going to kill me. If this is a team-based objective multiplayer mode, I will die a happy man. If not, then it's still good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boinga1 Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 it's real? it's not a trick? I can finally fantasize about it and come up with 10 charcter ideas in the next hour?!!? SWEET NECTAR OF THE GODS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark jedi 8 Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 i hate to barge in here but i have a question. :have you discussed what counsels this game will be on or ported to? i would really love it if it came out for x-box, well because, my pc really sucks, and i'm no where even close to getting a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinny Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 maybe not in jk3, but i was wondering if raven might start implementing geomodding style gameplay, likw in red faction , in the near future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangKhan Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 So little answers... Sorry, when it comes to specific art/modelling/map questions, I'm not really capable of answering those with absolute accuracy, I'm primarily a game programmer - mostly SP, I help out with MP some and I try to keep on top of the mod community. Plus, there are still things I just can't talk about yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryudom Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 like... fists? lol ah, i need that stasis chamber now more then ever hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo4114 Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Mike, Welcome back. I've been hoping you guys have been perusing the forums some, taking a look at the critiques, gripes, and praises of JK2. I'll admit I've posted my fair share of the former, but I've always done so in the hopes that the suggestions could be taken into account for future games (hoping that there'd BE future games). I'd like to ask a few questions here first (and, naturally, throw in a few suggestions/opinions ). 1.) Any chance you can describe how sabre combat will play out? There's been a lot of speculation thus far, but no confirmation one way or another, really. Are we talking one set of moves for each particular style? IE: one set of moves/stance for single sabre, one for two sabres, and one for double-bladed sabres? Or do you plan on using the underlying design from JK2? Will we be having differently powered moves/swings, or will the sabre be pretty much uniformly lethal? For my part, one of the things that was great about JK2 SP and not so hot about 1.04 MP was that the sabre was utterly lethal in one and not nearly as effective in the other. It also never really made sense to me why certain moves were more powerful than others. I'd like to suggest that all swings be equally powerful in terms of damage (so people in MP don't simply use one move or combo over and over ad nauseum), but rather that the difference be in terms of ability to breach defenses or maintain defenses. To my mind, this will make the fighting more strategic and less based around killer moves. People have discussed the blocking and collision issues already, so I don't think they need to be addressed really. Oh, and any chance we could see more dismemberment this time around? I could probably go into a LOT greater detail on things that I think would improve sabre combat, but I'd prefer to wait and see how you guys respond (and then probably either PM or e-mail someone at Raven) before tossing out yet ANOTHER suggestion. 2.) What can we expect from the guns this time around? It seems that sabres will be the primary focus of the game, which is great, but I'm sure plenty of folks want their guns fix too. Again, for my part, while the guns and their functions in JK2 were basically good, there were a lot of people who felt that they didn't quite capture the feel of the Star Wars films. To me, they felt a little Quake/UT. Personally, I've had a hard time explaining why this is. Some of it may be the look of the guns, some of it may be the exact effects they produced, some of it may be simply the look of the effects. I'm just curious if you guys have nailed down the weapons for the upcoming game, if that's still in discussion, and what your thoughts on the whole "capturing the feel of the movies" issue are in regards to this particular aspect of the game. 3.) Game modes. Any chance we can get a list of confirmed game modes? Will it be all the previous ones plus a new mode (or modes)? I, for one, would like to see more emphasis on the team game aspect, IE: CTF modes. It seemed in JK2 that CTF kind of got short shrift as far as the maps went (though this was true of JK1 as well -- something that bugged me then too). To me, DM's fun and all, but it gets kind of pointless after a while. That's why the SAGA stuff always appealed to me (in theory, anyway -- I never saw it in practice). Games like RTCW, BF1942, UT's assault mode, etc., have always been the most fun to me. Especially as they relate (or could relate, rather) to the Star Wars environment, where you're dealing with conflict on a grand scale, having objectives to complete as a team could be very rewarding and fun. (I also wouldn't mind seeing classes implemented -- I like the variation and teamwork that this fosters, but hey, that's just me.) 4.) Force powers. Again, any chance of a confirmed/planned list here? And will they be implemented the same way or what? One thing that ended up kind of killing a fun MP experience was when people would end up using the same old force combo over and over. It almost seemed that force powers became weapons in and of themselves. While for certain powers (lightning, grip) that makes sense, I think that force powers should be more of a supplement to the force wielder's abilities than weapons on their own. To my mind, the lightsabre is the Jedi's (and Sith/Dark Jedi's) weapon. The force merely augments the ability to fight but doesn't take over the job. Towards that end I'd like to advocate for more passive force powers, or at least powers that have less of an overall affect on the external world. Pulling things, pushing them, tossing them around, jumping high, running fast, increased senses or borderline precognition, those are all great, as are the old standbys of grip, lightning, and absorb (the great counter to the offensive powers of the dark side). But it seemed that with JK2's MP combat, people could often rely on these alone, whereas in the films, it always came down to who could use the sabre the best, or who could use the force to enhance the sabre abilities the best (at least for jedi v. sith combat). Sure, against your garden variety cannon fodder (storm troopers, droids, etc.) you could rely on the force, but when it comes down to it, the battle's gotta be decided by skill with the lightsabre. 5.) This is likely a legal issue, but will we be receiving a test/beta/pre-release demo of SP and MP? You've got legions of free QA people just waiting to help test the game out on a whole variety of differently configured rigs. Plus, by releasing the demo prior to the game's release, all the fan complaints could be addressed before people became too wedded to a particular style of play (thus, no community schism like we saw with the 1.02/1.03/1.04 problems). Plus, you whet the public's appetite for MORE and make 'em wanna race out and buy the game. I'm probably preaching to the choir here, though, and the real people I should be talking to are the LucasArts folks... Anyway, thanks for taking the time to deal with us rabid fans. We can be a fickle, noisy, and generally unappreciative lot, but I'm still hoping you guys can pull off a game that satisfies the WHOLE community (maybe even some of the RPGers!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Jolts, Q3Map2 can do radiosity for lighting, as well as bump-mapping, phong shading, cel shading, the list goes on... Mike, if possible, legally, I would highly suggest you guys use Q3Map2 for compiling maps. It has full support for JO now, even lightstyles. So unless you guys are adding anything that would require special compiler features or changes in BSP format, I suggest you use it. Speedier compiles, faster running maps, better lighting and visuals overall... Hell, it's open source, you could make any changes you'd want to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy867 Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 OK, My only concern is that with the Single Player, will there be the chance for dual sabers, instead of having to rely on someone like DEST to make it possible. And if implemented, will there be new styles for the dual sabers, any new force powers? When does this new Jedi Knight era take place? [Edit: I just saw the pic of the Twi'lek holding the dual sabers. So that answers one question, but the others, including the styles, are still there[/Edit] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneBeetle Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 one thing i think would be cool would be to like customize everything. like you could change your lightsaber up and change its color and layout and look and stuff. and maybe you earn credits during missions that you could use to upgrade stuff (gun silencer?) another awesome thing would be like a hitman-style thing. you could pick up jobs to do and stuff and then fulfill them. the main thing i think would be awesome about JK3 would be if you guys supported it. the lack of new material (official maps, models, etc.) really bored me from jk2 for a while. i think that it should at least be like sof2, a patch includes 3 or 4 new maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp-30 Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Hi Michael, thanks for taking the time to talk to us. I read that you're trying to make the game even more "mod friendly". Wonderful news! The most frustrating thing for me, as a character modder, is that the only way one can get a model in-game is via 3DSM. I refuse to get an illegal copy, I sure as hell can't affort to buy it, and I don't much care for asking others for help in weighting & exporting the models, so I'm stuck just skinning. Is there any chance of some exporter plugins for the likes of GMax, Milkshape, blender or similar. Please! Oh - and please add a "scale" function so we can make multisized player models without having to go via a 3rd party mod. Thanks for listening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN] Actually, the only real examples of this are Quake and Half-Life, and both of those were multiplayer mods, not single-player mods. I can't really think of a single-player code mod for a game that has benefitted the developer or publisher at all....? I cannot say that every game that follows has benefitted it's developers or publishers extravangtly, but it certantly has not hurt. What it does in the long run (I think) is get people's attention for future games. For example, if some noname company were to come out with a great game that was totally modable, people are going to see that as a plus for future products. People will say, "Hey, remember those guys? They had that game with all those cool mods and new singleplayer missions!" Well, at least for me and every other person I know. Dark Forces. They still have a very active editing community, and singleplayer is all they have. Jedi Knight / Mysteries of the Sith. Not much to say, really. LEC obviously hasn't made tons of doe off the SP editing from this game, but they certantly have lost none. The general interest in a game from SP editing aids the MP portion, too. Thief I, Thief II, possible Deus Ex (not sure if there is much SP here). The Thief games only have singleplayer, and they still have a decent community. Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine would have been much more successful if editing was allowed. I understand there might have been legal issues with Paramount, but that's beside the point here. This game was so close to JK in many ways. Infact, I could crack open the GOBs and edit half the game right with the JK editing tools. I could find out all the new COG verbs by looking at the inside of the EXE. I garuntee this game would be very alive if people were allowed to mod it. Elite Force... com'on man, didn't you work on this one? There are at least a few good SP projects, and I believe Monroe even got some more SP SDK stuff out just for one of em... I won't go into much detail on the other ones but I will mention them. All the X-Wing games, Doom games, all C&C and Red Alert games, possibly the Warcraft games and Starcraft (didn't get much into the mods on those). Singleplayer is a huge part of the gaming world, infact it probably makes up most of it (with the possible exception of recent games like Evercrack ). Now I know you guys cannot release the source code fully, but I think everyone would benefit from some simple expansions on singleplayer editing: More externalized data Specifically, expanded stuff for NPCs and customization (I think you already mentioned this, which is absolutly fantastic) More weapon customization. Just being able to change a few more basic attributes like accuracy would go a long way in the hands of crazy problem solvers like myself Force customization, just like weapons New projectiles in ext data. Ghost Recon used externalized stuff for this among other stuff (well, everything actually), and it worked great. Just simple stuff like speed, damage, EFX file. I'm not trying to tell you guys how to do your jobs or anything. You're already doing a lot to help us out, and I realize a lot is beyond your control. What you've got here is just my (and others') simple little request list incase you have some extra time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Multiple Suggestions to improve "Modder Friendly": 1. A manual or at least some documentation for the ghoul2 API would be great. With JK2 we've been stuck with guessing the functions of the ghoul2 calls or playing email tag with the programmers for answers. 2. more code comments about the function of all the different varibles would be great too. 3. More open and availible varibles in the playerstate_s so we can have room to transfer our own data to the client. 4. Actually run mods.ravensoft.com. Either the message board has been shut down or access is being denied to legitimate modders like myself The main page also hasn't been updated since January. If I could post on that forum, have the developers reply, and have the general public see those responses, the modder community would have a lot more needed information that we currently don't have. Right now, I'm stuck with bouncing several daily emails off of individual Raven staff members and then that information only ends up in my hands instead of the hands of all modders. Please don't take this as a complain festl. I've been much happier with the mod support once my emails started getting replies. I'm just trying to keep you guys honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Cloak Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 So...how come ragdoll physics is a "maybe", Mike? I'm fairly sure I understand a little bit...like...I don't know if the Quake3 engine supports it, or how hard it would be to add that type of game physics. What about interacting with real world objects (if someone already asked about that and was answered, point me in the right direction...I'm exhausted...reading hurts right now)? Stuff like...shooting boxes and have them spin all over the place, that stuff. Throwing large cargo bins (ala Le Force) at stormtroopers...something I've been DYING to do for the past two years or so. Throwing large cargo bins just to...throw large cargo bins. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Cloak Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 And sorry for the double post, truely...but what about dead limbs? Locational limb damage...such as, let's say a leg is blasted to bits. The stormtrooper or the player, for that matter, has to drag that dead limb behind them as a handicap. Might make things a bit more interesting. Or a broken arm, etc. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
els.DarkLord Posted April 1, 2003 Author Share Posted April 1, 2003 Wow. At the beginning ofthios thread I was pretty sceptic, but now... THANKS RAVEN for all the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Thanks for the confirmation, Mike. You seriously rock. I'm sure everyone here has a long list of wants and wishes...you may have to hire someone just to go through all this stuff. From what I've seen and read so far, JK3 looks very promising. As for it not being a proper sequel, well, I have an alternative view of that...in that the Jedi Knight series didn't really have to be about Kyle in the first place - any other character could have worked just as well. It would make sense to me if the Jedi Knight series continued with alternative characters with the ambition to become Jedi. Also in my view...it could be possible to extend the Dark Forces series, focusing on non-Jedi combat. As long as Kyle makes an appearance...and maybe gets involved somewhere in the story line (like fight alongside you, in a similar way to Luke in JO), I think that's perfectly acceptable. But that's just me. I can just see it now...Jedi Knight III: Padawan Good luck you Raven devs. Without you gaming would be a lot poorer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 To answer your question about rag doll physics. It's probably a maybe as in "that would require a assload of work but I can't shot down your dreams" sort of way. Ghoul2 is powerful but it's not set up for doing that sort of thing. To make something like a human body act dynamically in a remotely realistic way is very hard. Heck, the best we've seen is in the UT2k3 games but even they aren't very realistic either. Remember that Raven's on a tight schedule, they don't have time to do huge amounts of custom engine work on the game AND have a 18 month development cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon00 Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 I'm not sure if RavenSoft is still reading this thread (hopefully are!), but I have a few small suggestions... First off, dismemberment is a total, 100% MUST for the sequel. Do what you must to make it an optional feature as to not upset the 10 year olds and what not and to keep the Teen rating, but I get real sick of having to enter "saberrealistic_blablabla" every time I load up the game! It adds so very, very much to the game, I can't stress it enough! Secondly, don't try to cater to the "newbies" TOO much... e.g. don't dumb down saber combat so that newbies can just jump on and start owning everybody... I understand that you have to do this to some extent so that you don't alienate new buyers... but us JK2 "veterans" want depth, dammit! Finally, I really do hope that you guys are very serious about creating a non-linear game... JK2 was great, and the linear nature of it didn't really bother me... but the idea of a non-linear game always lingered in my mind. I understand that it wouldn't be feasible to make the game totaly dynamic... but adding a Deus Ex type nature to it (and hopefully add on to that) would quite possibly make it the best, or very close to it, game in the past 10 years. You guys say you're familiar and comfortable w/ the Quake 3 engine? Prove it, and give is a JK3 that we'll be playing for years to come! I'd also like to thank you guys for your listening to the community and for creating such wonderful games... Raven is my favorite game developer by far, and you guys just continue to impress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{DX}Slapnutz Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 And it's called Jedi Knight III right now for lack of a better name, I, personally, would not call it a "sequel" to JK2 since I think a DF/JK game should always be about the Katarns (maybe a true JK3 could be about Kyle and Jan's child, who perhaps shows a particularly strong adeptness with the Force...?) How about a game centering around the New Jedi Order series. Perhaps the Vong have infiltrated the Jedi Academy and kidnapped Kyle's son/daughter and other Jedi padawans. He would team up with Luke, Mara, the Solo twins, Anakin Solo, maybe even Han and Leia. Personally, since I've been reading the books, I've been itching to get in on kicking some Vong @$$, and I think you guys are the ones capable of making it happen. It could come out next year some time as we'll know the ending to the story by then. Hell, even Kyle was mentioned (finally) in the last book to come out. Come on, what do you say?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archonon Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Excellent, this is truly exciting news. Thanks for taking the time to talk to us Michael. I'm extremely happy to see confirmation of JK3. I have a few very trivial questions that hopefully you might be able to answer. 1) The most important question I suppose is what kind of system requirements should we expect to fully enjoy JK3? 2) The rest are just small details, I loved the fact the STV:Elite Force had good number of allied AIs constantly helping throughout the missions, I had hoped the same in Jk2 but allied AIs were rarely used and in very minimal roles, any chance this might change for JK3? I'd love to be able to fight alongside other Jedi. 3) Since you can choose your clothing, any chance that this game might feature more Jedi-like clothing in the options? What I mean is clothing resembling that seen worn by Anakin and other Jedi in Ep2, somehow I can never picture real Jedi with sleeveless shirts and leather pants 4) I noticed in one of the screens of the Twi'lek Jedi using 2 sabers that one of her sabers was backwards in her hand, meaning new fighting animations. Will characters that use the double bladed saber have new animations so they use that weapon with both hands instead of one? Fighting more like Darth Maul did in Ep1. 5) Do you have any idea if this game will have MP by TCP/IP connections like the original JK? Or will MP be again restricted to game rooms and MP gaming sites? That's it, thanks for any information you can provide and great work on JK3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASk Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 I certainly hope that my GLAMerge will become more useful. No real XSI skeleton -> no merging GLA files. Or are you planning to add dynamic GLA loading support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Raven is pumping out 3 games at once (that we know of) ... wow. I have to sit back and be proud - in this business it's hard enough to stay in business, let alone grow ... GOOD JOB. Hey Mike, you're probably one of the few people I haven't asked about GLA format - what do you know about deciphering the BasePoseMat (mdxaBone_t)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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