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Hey, I just stumbled upon this header image of the Terrible Toybox Twitter account. That is new, isn't it? Exciting that we have to unlock the Monkey Head again. 😍

Charles L. Charles reading this with a tear in his eye. Zombie Guybrush from the end of Tales reading this with a tear in his eye.

I’m not going to claim “it’s all Disneyland,” but Tom Sawyer’s Island in both the CA and Florida park has always had a good mix of foliage that feels “adventurous” without being explicitly regionally tropical.

Even looking at that picture, I'm thinkin' where did all these palm trees come from? These are the trees we see in Melee: I don't think it's unfair to say that the vegetation and landscape of an island is a really strong influence on its character... and another major influence would have to be the architecture - and where in the original game and ReMI the roofing looks slightly ramshackle, in that concept art it mostly looks sturdy and nice. But as I say, for me it was a lot more about vibe than layout specifically. I just never really 'bought' it as Melee. The Mansion came close, but even then, it becomes a rather different place when it's not overshadowed by huge, ominous cliffs, right?

My guess is that EMI running roughshod over established geography and playing things loose with canon in general wasn’t an issue of carelessness or the team not doing their research. I think they knew what they were blowing up, and simply thought it was fair game to do so in the fourth installment of a ten-year-old series. I think they honestly misjudged how sacred fans hold some of these things. Stemmle and Clark brought a certain amount of Sam & Max flavor to EMI, and maybe it was underestimated how awkward a fit the more irreverent mentality would be. Maybe it took EMI going a little too far to find out where the limits were. Consider also that Day of the Tentacle was exponentially more irreverent toward “The Maniac Mansion Universe” (if we must) and that the game didn’t merely get away with it, but was rewarded by being the one the majority of people seem to associate with that property. There’s not much of a common denominator in the art style, mansion geography, or overall tone between DOTT and Maniac Mansion, but there’s not much complaining about it either. EMI, just the opposite. It’s sort of interesting to ponder why.

Interestingly, the vegetation of Melee Island doesn't look a lot like that of a caribbean island to me. There aren't many trees of that type in any picture I've seen of the caribbean for real. And yet to change the trees would be to really change the character of the location. I have to imagine the artists drew inspiration from closer to home. The forest does remind me a bit more of the kind of thing you find around California Of course, there's always been the question of how deep in the Caribbean we really are...

Speaking of EMI…

I agree. Even if you guess correctly, it's not worth any bragging rights because it's just a guess. It's not like anyone could cleverly deduce anything at this stage. It's just randomly throwing story elements at a wall until they stick (which, incidentally, is part of the writer's process). And later, once we have more information, if you do cleverly deduce something then you're only spoiling a plot twist for yourself. (I agree this can be satisfying, but given that Ron making a new Monkey Island is so incredibly rare -- and unlikely to happen again -- I'd personally put planned surprises over satisfaction at outwitting him and Dave.) Anyway, that's just how I see it. I don't expect anyone change their views.

I'm sure this theory has been mentioned before: Monkey Island is surrounded by a "voodoo mist", right? So, what if you get to different versions of the island, depending on the voodoo spell you are cooking to get there.

What about the beloved EMI we were just talking about?!

I think the way Melee Island was presented in Escape was indicative of my main issue with that game overall. While I very much enjoyed the game and still do, I found it to be overall way too lighthearted. There were no real spooky or creepy locations or moments (the closest would the swamp on Lucre Island and that didn't do anything for me). Guybrush also had zero edge in that game; something that every character wasted no time in reminding Guybrush and us the players over and over and over again throughout the game. For most Monkey Island games, it you were to leave out all the crazy puzzles and dialogue and just tell what the overall story is about, it's pretty serious. Love, revenge, abandonment, betrayal, atonement, sacrifice and other similar themes and concepts are all pretty well ingrained in this series. With Escape though, the story itself is so over-the-top with a Giant Monkey robot, a talking monkey, Monkey Kombat etc., that it's almost impossible to take it seriously. Yes, other MI games have done crazy things to a certain degree, but always with a hint that something just wasn't right or adding up, implicating a very disturbing layer to the story. I think now, I see Escape's story as endearing and what gives that game its unique charm, but I will always prefer the more creepy stories not afraid to hint at something much deeper going on. It looks like Return, based off everything shown and spoken about, will have that in spades and that makes me so excited.

They're ignoring the robot monkeys, I'm certain of it. Dave: We talked all about canon and these other games, and the fact that we liked them, and the audience liked them, and so we made it our point of philosophy to adhere to canon wherever possible, but with two caveats. One of which is, it’s actually kind of hard to keep track of everything that’s canon, and some of these other games don’t even agree with each other. So a little bit of paradox is necessary and probably healthy for us as creators and as human beings. And the other caveat is that too much canon can get in the way of the story you’re trying to tell, so we decided that we would adhere to canon unless it was going to get in the way, and we would ignore some minor details if we needed to. https://adventuregamers.com/articles/view/ron-gilbert-dave-grossman-return-to-monkey-island There isn't much that can get more in the way of telling a good pirate story than giant monkey robots.

Yeah, if they just pretended there's no giant monkey robots around, that'll be fine by me. Trying to explain away EMI's oddities would probably be more effort than it's worth.

Of course, I think so too, but it's still interesting that the first location in the game is also probably the most obviously un-caribbean looking one.

I think it was @Marius who first connected some dots around this (and the fact that you start MI2 next to a weenie hut), but anyway… Is the entrance to Big Whoop actually the Melee Island arch, where Guybrush meets the blind lookout? Okay, but Big Whoop sure looks like Booty Island too, right? Where there’s… a deaf lookout? And is it possible that, actually, I am insane?

Yes Melee Island is much more Americana isn't it... that first picture feels like Dinky Island, though.

It really says a lot about how well realised and memorable these locations from the games feel to us that we're still here debating about what Melee Island is supposed to look like, even down to weather or not palm trees grew on the island! A less well realised world wouldn't have inspired that discussion.

In defense of EMI... Had they stayed a little bit closer to the concept art's details, there would likely be fewer complaints. And to keep this ReMI related, going by Thrik's screenshot above, it looks like they took the docks from it!

Okay, back to EMI bashing I see... IMHO they made a clear choice to artistically change the look of Melee (and Monkey) Island, rather than trying to recreate it exactly as in MI1 but in 3D. Although part of me wishes that it had been a bit more accurately done, I also understand their reasons for not getting all caught up in making it super accurate. They most likely would have had to deal with criticism even if they had done it well, and stylizing it was a smart choice.

Okay, though let's get bold and specific with this prediction: Captain Smirk is not only dead but died immediately after giving you swordfighting lessons, hence there being no answer after he closes the door on you for the last time. When you go there all you find is THE MACHINE, with his skeleton on the end of the sword. If you talk to the skeleton, one of the dialog options is: * How appropriate. You fight like a cow.

The Nostradamus principle: If you guess enough random things, eventually one of them might look right

I've never heard this theory before today. Is it just something that's popped up because people are trying to guess what's going to happen in Return? I saw endless speculation when Twin Peaks The Return came out. Everyone was trying to be the one who "guessed it". It was like a race to predict the turns of the story. The thing is, there's only so many places a story can go. (Sad truth: If you stop a movie halfway, and then sit down with a pen and paper you can usually deduce any twists and turns that are coming -- it doesn't take much effort, it just spoils the experience.) Eventually someone will guess correctly from the sheer law of averages vs possibilities. I don't know if anyone actually guessed what was going on in Twin Peaks Season 3, but I bet someone got close. I know I won't stop speculation, but I reckon eventually (like someone pausing a film and trying to figure out the turns) someone will spoil it for themselves 😬

https://imgur.com/Jz1Hed6

You know, I never even considered the potential inconsistency Monkey Head being destroyed by the robot! (And I like EMI!) Yeah, I have a feeling that perhaps they'll ignore that, or come up with some weird throwaway explanation for why it's still here. (Then again, EMI turning the caverns of meat into a robot control room is an inconsistency in itself!) Yeah, looking at the overhead Melee image on the previous page, I think it's largely the music, and the audio in general, that saves a lot of EMI for me. Looking at the image on it's own compared to the other games made me go "ew" , but thinking about it with the soundtrack that plays in that scene made me go "ooh!" Also very curious now about how "poignant" the game is apparently going to feel, as it's been referred to a number of times by a few people on the team. Wondering if it's more along the lines of a general sense of bittersweet nostalgia, or if they're gonna "Toy Story 3" us at the end. Of all the games, Tales probably has the closest to what I'd call "emotional moments" with the death scenes, Morgan's sacrifice in Episode 5, and Guybrush's pained deliveries in the climax. Even the final "puzzle" of Guybrush being alone in the crossroads, and the scene being completely silent, is very striking atmospherically after all of the audio in the rest of the game.

Something along those lines is still what I believe. The narrative framing à la Guybrush telling MI2 to Elaine. The scrapbook concept in the trailer just supports this even more.

Does this have anything to do with that theory about Guybrush and Chuckie going home from the carnival to read a pirate book and arguing about how the story goes?

I'm not saying I want Fester Shinetop back, but ... I want LeChuck's shape shifting abilities back. It's something that was just used once in TSoMI, but never again. Like Guybrush's being shot out of a cannon ability.

I love the glow peeking out. Seriously, this game's use of lighting in general has just blown me away so far. I've tweeted about this briefly, but I imagine that the game will freely ignore the giant robot blowing it up in Escape. I will be very surprised if they try to explain it. Just one of those "canon can get in the way of a good story" moments that Dave Grossman alluded to, I think.

The lookout point on the peak of the hill with the winding path down to the docks is such an iconic imagery (it's the first thing you see when you launch the original game) that I can't believe they decided to do away with all of it in EMI. But I do appreciate some of the changes they made - for example how they decided to make every location easily accessible. In the first game, to reach the governor's mansion from the map screen you had to go through the docks (which is like 3 screens wide), through the town, then through more town and a cliff path (also like 3 screens wide). It probably takes no more than a minute to traverse in reality, but when I was a kid it felt like a journey.

In many ways I could have been okay with them changing the layout if it had even felt a little bit like the same place. Like, had a similar vibe, or SOMETHING. But going back over it and looking at the scenes it's hard to believe it even IS Melee Island. It captures nothing of the vaguely eerie night-time vibe from MI1, where everything sort of washes into the same colour palette and so the rare exceptions (like the circus tent) really stand out. I feel like even if they'd significantly changed the layout for the new game, it would have been instantly recognisable as Melee. ...but, I'm glad they kept the layout the same too, because the idea of walking along that dock again and going to the SCUMM bar (and having it actually look like the SCUMM bar inside) makes me very pleased. There;s no shame in getting joy out of nostalgia, I suppose - we'd be in trouble as a site if there was. But I am glad it's not all there's going to be to the game.

Agreed 100%. So glad Melee looks like Melee again.

And who's Vice Sherrif? Ignatius Cheese!

Maybe Smirk is the Sheriff of Mêlée Island!

Wonder if we'll see Meathook/Captain Smirk in this game while we're bringing back Melee Island characters. (And I wonder if Meathook will still be a painter!)

They're playing up the TSoMI locations and characters disproportionately right now to lure the nostalgic crowd back on board, I think. Now that I know they're aiming at recreating iconic backgrounds with basically the TSoMI perspectives, I'm pretty convinced that we ain't seen nothing yet. 🤘 Take Melee Island: Of all the new content, it was the island they most focused on. We've seen the docks, the lookout, the scumm bar interior, voodoo hut, prison, locksmith, and just a little bit of the governor's mansion interior. What we haven't seen on Melee Island is Hook Island exterior/interior, Stan's brand new Sunken Vessels above/below water, the shop interior, church interior, troll bridge, streets, the extensive woods, overview map, treasure clearing, circus clearing, Carla's old hut, governor's mansion exterior, Ten O'Clock Square, Smirk's hut ext/int., Scumm bar kitchen/back door docks, and probably half a dozen additional places I can't remember right now. I'm pretty sure they'll recreate most if not all of these iconic places/backgrounds and then add some new ones. ... and we've seen next to nothing of Monkey Island, Brr Muda and Terror Island.

When I talk about spoilers, I don't just mean content spoilers that relate to the story or puzzles. But especially when it comes to familiar characters and places, it's nice to find them in the game. Questions like "Where will the Voodoo Lady be this time?", "Will we see Stan again?", "Will the Scummbar be open?", "Can we visit the monkey head again?" etc. are basically already answered. Of course, there will certainly be lots and lots of new things to discover. But I think we've already seen an incredible amount. As I said before, I would have liked to know the title of the first part (as important or unimportant as it is) in the game. I would also find it a great pity, for example, if they posted the intro on the Monkey Island Mondays now. I would like to experience something like that in the game for the first time - and not on Twitter. As I said: I'm happy about everything we see, but I would also be happy to discover the rest now.🤗

Oh I am not scared about spoilers at all, and am sure that the team won't show anything they don't want us to see. All that is public seems well thought out and considerately picked. I just wish I could explore Mêlée Island for the first time on my own. But that is all a question of self-restraint and I am not criticizing the team (developers and publishers). #MonkeyIslandMonday is a pretty smart marketing move, and it makes me happy that it excites more and more people every week.

Same, I don't want to see anything more. But of course I will study every new tweet thoroughly.

I would be happy if nothing else was shown!

Bonus Monkey Island 1 (VGA) This one is quite boring. They didn't bother translating any of the text (not even the title! how were they supposed to know what the game is even called??) Again distributed by Dong Seo Game Channel. 90 or 91? who can say. Curiously the text is all misaligned, but otherwise the same as North American release. ₩20000 (Approx $15 USD not adjusted for inflation) The reference card is clearly a cheap photocopy. Disappointing. I'm surprised that they bothered with the full-colour printing of copy protection wheel. The manual is in black and white and very cheap. 4 high density 5.25" floppies. The manual contains full walkthrough (not a separate book like MI2). The solution to the insult swordfighting puzzle photographed here.

I don't disagree, but it isn't exactly a "minor detail." I have a decent feeling they'll keep it in.