El Sitherino Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by StormHammer I always keep in mind when watching Star Wars movies - they're meant to be an action-packed rollercoaster that takes you along for a ride. Why people keep wanting it to turn into some deeply thought-provoking emotional tour-de-force is beyond me. *hugs* exactly, It's for entertainment, not life changing philosophy. If you want a deep story go watch a non-fiction film, something like Schindler's List. If you just want a fun story that takes on an action filled ride and plays with your imagination, watch Star Wars. (I never thought I could put Schindler's List in with Star Wars, but I did... <_<) Second, these are based around the stylings of 40's and 50's serial dramas (which if you watch, are rather cheesey, but fun!) I think it held to it's origins of the serial drama, It's not overly dramatic, and it's not about mind boggling dialogue, it's about action and adventure, and having a good time without so much thinking to figure out the plot. Star Wars is a movie meant for all ages, therefore you have some seriousness (not a lot) and you have some comedy, and some generation gapping characters. I found Lucas did a good job of this, hell now my cousin will watch star wars with me now that he has a better understanding of it, I used to never be able to get him to watch the OT, but when Phantom menace was released, he was like "OMG LIGHTSABERS ROCK! OMG STAR WARS ROCKS!" I first got into Star Wars when I was about 4, My opa (grandpa) showed it to me, I've never stopped loving it, It has that ability to bridge generations together, to find a common liking (ala My opa and myself). I had so many thoughts about the Prequels, sure some of them weren't meant, but I still loved the PT. It was a fun ride, and I cannot wait for Episode 3. Now to get to my point, Star Wars is not to be one of these life changing experiences, that make you think about how you're living your life, It's just a great story to pretty much make you forget your troubles. People expect too much from a serial drama'd Science-FICTION! movie. Which is another reason why I have a large hate for most of humanity, including myself <_<. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kale Jerre Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 I have to say that I'm another one who agrees with what Christopher Bahn had to say. Yes, he's being very harsh in his criticism but I firmly believe that Episodes I and II just aren't up to spec as compared to IV-VI. Case in point: Hayden Christensen and that 'They're holding me back!' nonsense. For Force sake, Mark Hammil's character in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back was more credible than Hayden's angst-ridden teen Anakin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermie Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 those Moulded Sons of Nomad Bbastard Children! hey, its hard to cus without swearing ^_^; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kale Jerre Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by Siv the problem is they would never meet expectations. we all grew up watching the OT over and over and when GL annouced that he was going to make prequels everyone was like, wow this is the best thing that could ever happen! then a year before the release of Ep I the hype machine increased expectations even more. it had no chance. no matter how good it was people would trash it because of the anti-climax which was inevitable. My reasons for disliking Episodes I and II certainly have nothing to do with hype since I intentionally avoided reading anything that was being said before their releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by Kale Jerre My reasons for disliking Episodes I and II certainly have nothing to do with hype since I intentionally avoided reading anything that was being said before their releases. That has nothing to do with hype...that has to do with being spoiled. You make your own hype. You get so excited for the movie, you anticipated it for so long, thinking about how great, awesome, and life altering an experience it would be. And then it was just another movie. I personally love the PT and the OT, but the guy made a FEW points. Like letting someone else direct it. Irvin Kershner directed TESB and it's the best Star Wars movie. Anyways, let em trash it. I'll still watch it and I'll still love it, so it doesn't matter to me what MSNBC says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_One Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by joetheeskimo5 Personally I think the writer of the report is a ****ing asshole. And he doesn't understand the defenition of journalism. News reporters REPORT THE FACTS, not their goddamn overly-criticizing, negative opinions! No, you don't understand what journalism is about. A journalist's job is to collect the "facts" (although this is not always possible), make their inferences wherever they can, draw their own conclusions, and ultimately form their own opinions on the matter. It is impossible to simply "report the facts," your own conclusions have to be drawn eventually. This is why some newspapers, and some TV channels are more conservative or liberal than others. If all journalists simply gave you the facts we would only need one TV channel, radio station and newspaper. Journalists offer their own opinion and slant on different stories, as this one has done here. If you don't agree with him, don't accuse him of not doing his job, he is doing his job. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, if someone's does not correspond with yours, argue a case against it - don't just get angry and accuse them of not doing their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PR-0927 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 WHAT?!?! They are crazy!! *Buys a Clone Army, creates new versions of Star Destroyers, takes lightsabers, creates newer blasters, and then goes to MSNBC with it all..........and tortures the evil reporter with Dark Side Force powers, then has everything shoot him at once!!* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alegis Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Anakin was great in EP2..."theyre holding me back" ->he might have sounded like a wanker but hey that was the damn point you think he would just switch to dark side cause he gets a free lightchain? No he gets friggin sick in the brain in ep2 (like someone from mangekyou sharingan) and thats why he acts like that the basher is an idiot...Its true lucas aint a perfect director, but he came up with the star wars universe and if there is one person who should do what he wants with it its him ive enjoyed every single movie, maybe even the prequels a bit more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by The_One It is impossible to simply "report the facts," your own conclusions have to be drawn eventually. This is why some newspapers, and some TV channels are more conservative or liberal than others. If all journalists simply gave you the facts we would only need one TV channel, radio station and newspaper. Actually, that is why virtually all media are not just liberal, but far more liberal than the general populous ... but that is for another thread Originally posted by The_One Journalists offer their own opinion and slant on different stories, as this one has done here. If you don't agree with him, don't accuse him of not doing his job, he is doing his job. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, if someone's does not correspond with yours, argue a case against it - don't just get angry and accuse them of not doing their job. There I wholeheartedly agree. Look - this was an opinion piece, in which the person is explicitly asked to state his opinion on things. Whether or not you like that opinion is a separate deal. My problem is that they have been disingenuous with the replies - TFN followed up on that as well. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manoman81 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 OK, I agree with many others that the prequels are not as good as the OT. For me, they fell like they are missing something that the OT had. However, I did enjoy the prequels. I really liked Ep. II. I mentioned in another thread that I had got my girlfriend wanting to see Ep. III just to see what happens to Anakin. She hated Star Wars until I sat her down to watch them. Edit: I think this says a lot about the people that don't like SW but can get into it because of the prequels. I think that might mean something about those movies. There are rumors flying around the net about what will happen in III. I think that all of the characters and actors will now be able to expand for this one. I really don't agree with the author that some of the actors need to be replaced. I do think that LUcas was better as a producer than a director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_hill987 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 I couldn't even read half of that article, It was full of too much b******t. Personaly I don't think that the prequal films are ****, if anything they are less corny than the origonals (I'm gonna get shouted at for saying that) though that does not mean better. there is no need for any of this, stop the argument, ALL of the Star Wars films are good, EIII will be no exeption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joetheeskimo Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by jon_hill987 I couldn't even read half of that article, It was full of too much b******t. Personaly I don't think that the prequal films are ****, if anything they are less corny than the origonals (I'm gonna get shouted at for saying that) though that does not mean better. there is no need for any of this, stop the argument, ALL of the Star Wars films are good, EIII will be no exeption. Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverhoodian Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 I just sent this "Suggestion" as to how I would "improve" Episode III to MSNBC. Read on if you wish: I would fire Christopher Bahn for whining like a ten-year old and acting like the bitter, cynical and egotistical man that he is. I'm sorry, but I just can't pass up this opportunity to fire some well-deserved criticism at this critic. He sets himself up so good that I can't help but oblige. I couldn't help but laugh at your accusing Anakin of being too whiny. After all, look who's calling the kettle black. I have never read a more annoyingly whiny review. "I don't like Anakin because he's a girly guy. I don't like Padme because she doesn't walk around in her birthday suit on Tatooine." I've never understood why Jar-Jar is so hated. God forbid there be comic relief in a story. About the only difference between C-3P0 and Jar-Jar (besides the obvious visual differences) is that they have different accents. Last I checked, British rights groups haven't complained about 3P0's English accent nor the fact that every Imperial officer seems to be British. The human body contains "mitochondria:" microscopic organisms that help keep us alive. Perhaps it failed to reach your brain that midichlorians aren't the Force: they are only a part of the Force, much as mitochondria does not represent life itself, but it is a part of life. Which leads us to your "since Lucas borrows ideas from other stories, he's automatically a horrible director." Like you yourself wrote, even Shakespeare hardly ever came up with an original story idea of his own. The fact that you think Lucas needs to be fired just because he borrows elements from other stories tells me that you despise all such stories, be it from Lucas, Kurosawa or Shakespeare. The fact that you don't at least appreciate Shakespeare sets off numerous warning bells and underscores your lack of scruples. In short, this commentary is no different from anything a militant Trekkie who reads Klingonese Bibles would tell me. Oh well, your loss. You'll be happy to know that I'll keep your vacant seat warm while I enjoy Episode III in much the same manner as I have enjoyed all the other Star Wars movies. I would say "May the Force be with you," but that would be an insult to you. "You have done well, my young apprentice" would be more fitting, wouldn't it? I don't think they'll put it up on their website anytime soon, as it seems they only put up the stuff they want people to see. Christopher Bahn will probably never read it, but it felt good to vent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Look, my hatred of Ep1 and Ep2 are well known, but I'm still willing to give Ep3 a chance...with the hope that something awful DOESN'T happen... DAMN YOU JAR-JAR!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by Neverhoodian Which leads us to your "since Lucas borrows ideas from other stories, he's automatically a horrible director." Like you yourself wrote, even Shakespeare hardly ever came up with an original story idea of his own. The fact that you think Lucas needs to be fired just because he borrows elements from other stories tells me that you despise all such stories, be it from Lucas, Kurosawa or Shakespeare. The fact that you don't at least appreciate Shakespeare sets off numerous warning bells and underscores your lack of scruples. Actually, the point he made in his article about Lucas using other ideas was that he SHOULD do that again, because it worked. The journalist was saying that Lucas should take the story for Ep 3 from some other people who ARE good writers Sorta stuck the proverbial foot in the mouth on that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kale Jerre Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Originally posted by ET Warrior That has nothing to do with hype...that has to do with being spoiled. You make your own hype. You get so excited for the movie, you anticipated it for so long, thinking about how great, awesome, and life altering an experience it would be. And then it was just another movie. Not in the least. If it was just another movie then I wouldn't be so critical. IMO GL simply lost track of what made the OT so good for me and accordingly Episodes I and II suffer for it (again IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 at the end of the day, each of us loves at least one SW movie here, am I right ! And in its many incarnations, including gaming, alot of ppl have deriven alot of enjoyment from SW.... Jackson's a gifted director but he hasnt proven himself as a storywriter yet. Even one of his notable earliet works, Heavenly Creatures, is based on an autobiography. GL wrote the stories for all the SW and Indy movies, and for that he deserves some respect ; theres not that many diresctors that would even dare do that nowadays..... especially in sci-fi As much as I like Trek(Im a TNG and Voyager fan), thats what has made that franchise lose direction, bad storywriting, especially in the movies, and in the latest dud series, Enterprise mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 If I had to name 'My 10 Favorite' movies of all-time, Star Wars would be plastered all over that list ... and none of the LotR movies would appear. If I had to name my thoughts on 'The 10 Best' movies, there would be neither Star Wars nor LotR ... with Hitchcock, Lynch, Kurosawa, Wells, Woody Allen, Coppola, etc ... there's just no room. But what does that all matter. It is easy to look back through the years and see 'greater' movies than the Star Wars movies of the same year. 1977 - Annie Hall is objectively a better movie than Star Wars. Close Encounters, anyone? There was also GoodBye Girl, A Bridge Too Far, and of courseSaturday Night Fever (my parents took Disco lessons ... oh the shame ... what will I do to confer similar embarrasment on my kids?) 1980 - Airplane, Caddyshack, Blues Brothers ... oh, wait, they are also 'fun but not great'. No wonder Ordinary People got the Oscar (they still couldn't give it to a 'sci-fi' movie then, let alone a sequel!) ... 1980 was a pretty 'lite' movie year ... 1983 - Terms of Endearment (*sniff*), Scarface, Silkwood ... and a ton of movies that weren't great but definied my junior and senior years in high school. So is LotR better than Star Wars? No! Yes! Who cares?!? Not me! Should Lucas hand off the reigns. No! Yes! Who cares?!? Not me! Seriously, so long as Lucas continues the journey from the flawed but fun Ep1 (snack break during the pod-race for me!) to the excellent EpII ... with the fine, developing talent of Hayden Christianson, the demonstrated excellent, but yet SW underachieving Nat Portman, the better Obi-Wan Ewan, Ian Mcdermid sensational Palpatine, not to mention Sam Jackson and Frank Oz ... I know I'll be very, very happy. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kale Jerre Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Originally posted by txa1265 ... with the fine, developing talent of Hayden Christianson Gah! GAH! Hayden's got the acting 'talent' of a stale loaf of bread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Originally posted by Kale Jerre Gah! GAH! Hayden's got the acting 'talent' of a stale loaf of bread! Have you seen reviews of his work in 'My Life as a House' or especially 'Shattered Glass'? Ewan Macgregor has said that acting to greenscreen is harder than 'normal' acting, and my guess is that some of that translates to screen. Personally I found the scenes with Hayden quite good - he is supposed to be arrogent, cocky, rude, reckless, unsure of himself, immature, whiny, and all at once. He's better at it than Mark Hammill in 1977, IMO ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kale Jerre Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Originally posted by txa1265 Have you seen reviews of his work in 'My Life as a House' or especially 'Shattered Glass'? Ewan Macgregor has said that acting to greenscreen is harder than 'normal' acting, and my guess is that some of that translates to screen. No, I haven't seen reviews of those works or the works themselves. Personally I found the scenes with Hayden quite good - he is supposed to be arrogent, cocky, rude, reckless, unsure of himself, immature, whiny, and all at once. It's not actually teen Anakin's attitude I have a problem with but Hayden's portrayal of that attitude. It may just be me, but Hayden's performance just struck me as 'false' from the start. He's better at it than Mark Hammill in 1977, IMO ... Then we're definitely opposites as far as opinions go. I though Mark brought just the right touch of naivete for his performance to be credible for Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivy Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Mark Hamill's acting in ANH was absolutely awful, luckily it didn't matter and he was a big improvement in ESB & ROTJ (maybe something to do with his cocaine addiction? ) i think it goes to show again that George Lucas is a visual director. maybe its due to his love of old serials, but he doesn't seem really to care about the quality of the acting as long as it looks good. i think the only way actors can do star wars is if they don't take it seriously. like harrison ford, ewan mcgregor, carrie fisher etc. they all treat(ed) it as a laugh, whereas nat portman and some others look as if they treat(ed) it seriously and they don't (didn't) come off well. apart from, of course, the old pros like cushing, lee, guinness etc. who can act in anything. anyway, i too thought Hayden Christiansen was ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Originally posted by Kale Jerre Then we're definitely opposites as far as opinions go. I though Mark brought just the right touch of naivete for his performance to be credible for Luke. I still remember summer of 1977 ... whenever anyone got whiny about doing something you'd say 'what, do you need to go into Tosci station and get power convertors'? Don't get me wrong - I loved him in all of the movies, and Luke was my favorite character (unlike most of my friends who liked Han better). I just also like Hayden as Anakin. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggle Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 I think Hayden christianson actually acted pretty well the problem I think is due to lucas highly suspect script (in terms of lines) lucas as mentioned is great with visuals and writes good structure but please leave the dialogue alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IG-64 Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 I thought hayden acted the part rather well. Remember he is supposed to be whiny and unstable. It's what turns him to the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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