SRF_Vader Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 It's a sad day when America's sovereignty is usurped by foreign opinion. We have to vote democrat to get foreign aid and respect now? That disgusts me in more ways than one. The EU has just as much influence as the US, but we dont go around telling each memebr nation who to vote for. Dont like what the US is doing? Sanction us, raise tariff's on US export's. Or just deal with the fact we're a sovereign nation and intervene militarily if it's really affecting your nation negatively. But dont try to tell America how to run its own nation. That's just my opinion on the the whole foreign reaction. As far as Obama, well he's president now. It would be stupid to hope for anything but sucess. I hope america becomes stronger under obama, even if i preferred another candidate and party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lantzen Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 That building your own little island away from the rest of the class is just going to make all of the world's problems vanish? Really? It works for North Korea Sorry, but i just had too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralPloKoon Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I dunno about you guys, but I'd rather live in Britian...the people(citizens) here in the US are....not good, i'll put it that way. But yay Obama! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Obi-Wan Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 . I missed the inauguration since I was writing an exam but I read and saw parts of it. Glad to see him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samnmax221 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 hopefully we can keep our wars secret now, like they're supposed to be Jarrod, do you long for the innocence of Iran-Contra? I know I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 It's a sad day when America's sovereignty is usurped by foreign opinion. We have to vote democrat to get foreign aid and respect now? That disgusts me in more ways than one. I doubt people who voted Democrat that day were thinking 'Lets pick Obama because other countries perceive him in a more favourable light than Bush' (which isnt entirely difficult btw!) All the people that turned up at the inauguration werent there because people across Europe/Asia/Australia were now pleased ! It was to benefit your nation, and the positivity felt by others is simply due to the fact that economically and militarily, the US has a great influence on the rest of the world. That influence coupled with the positivity can potentially lead to a better set of circumstances than exist now - which is what we all would like at the end of the day, surely It would be stupid to hope for anything but success. I hope america becomes stronger under obama, even if i preferred another candidate and party. That's exactly what it boils down to. you are a wise sith lord, SRF How anyone can long for things to get worse, simply because they dont like Obama/Democrats etc is unfathomable. Oh, in other news I would never pretend to be Canadian, because that's where Celine Dion is from Ms Dion aside, worldwide - Canadians are loved more than teddy bears, ice cream and choc chip cookies combined This is no joke. Look at our very own Prime. His awesomeness is a shining beacon for all that is good and proper at LFN mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth333 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I always go the Canadian route... just to be safe. With PM Harper that's not really safe anymore I'll see how Obama does (he speaks well but what will get done remains to be seen) and maybe I'll start saying that I'm American lol (after all, it's true too as America is a continent). but we dont go around telling each memebr nation who to vote for. uh?...what about South America and several other regions and countries? (well that's more of a Kavar discussion and more than just telling "who to vote for" too...). Didn't Bush also said "you are with us or against us" at some point? Besides, no one really told you "who to vote" for. Americans voted for Obama, not the rest of the world. Most of us merely hoped... That being said, everyone can have an opinion, including the rest of the world A country can't just go out and attack another one, adopt strong sanctions against others and expect the rest of the world to just sit down and nod in agreement. Dont like what the US is doing? Sanction us, raise tariff's on US export's. Or just deal with the fact we're a sovereign nation and intervene militarily if it's really affecting your nation negatively. But dont try to tell America how to run its own nation. Are you serious? I just can't believe I am reading that. Why adopt sanctions that will affect civil populations directly when diplomacy can do it? Obviously, you have never lived in a war zone of any kind...Bomb first, ask questions later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Jarrod, do you long for the innocence of Iran-Contra? I know I do.good times. we could fight the latest threat to our freedom in secret then blame it on brown people if it ever got out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk102 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (after all, it's true too as America is a continent). Two continents actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Nazi Germany lost because they tried to fight a 2 front war. They nearly had Britain, even though they were putting up an admirable defense. Had they put more resources into u-boat production, they may have been able to eventually starve them out. But to actually invade? Ridiculous. They really had no surface fleet to speak of and they lost about a third of what they had at the beginning of the war during their invasion of Norway. Pipedreams won't get you across the Channel. It takes a fleet and mastery of the air. Germany had neither. If they had managed to take Britain, then Hitler would have only had a 1 front war to fight with Russia. Which the Soviets would have still won. And Japan, afraid Russia would attack China, invaded China and caused their own little Holocaust. I thought it was because of old-fashioned imperialist aggression. "The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere" and all that. Being apart of the Axis, it would have been a matter of time before Japan decided to fight Russia. IIRC, Hitler tried and failed to convince Japan to attack the Soviet Union at the same time as Germany, but after their little border war in the late '30s, where the Soviets proved to be a lot tougher than the then-militarily inept Chinese, they wanted no more of that. At that point, Russia would have been fighting a two front war this time. Which they were just as capable of fighting as we were, especially given that the conflict would have been entirely land-based. Japan's true strength lay with her navy, which was first-rate. However, as it turned out, her army was an ill-equipped, ill-lead, tactically and strategically unimaginative joke which the Soviets would have intitially held off and then ground into powder just like they did to the vastly superior Wehrmacht. When it comes to the defense of the Motherland the Russians are, historically speaking, the comeback kids of warfare. This has happened at least 3 times that I know of offhand in the last 300 years. Just ask Charles XII of Sweden, Napoleon Bonaparte of France and, of course, Adolf Hitler of Germany. As aggressors, they're laughable. As defenders, they're invincible. And you still contradict yourself by saying we saved Europe from the Sovs. Not really. All we had to do was stare them down and they eventually collapsed. Remember? Hardly. You are typing on a computer in a Star Wars forum in an American chair. Neither of which I own, actually. If there was no significant financial and military ties between the US and Israel, sure. But this is really, fantastically unlikely. We'll see. If Obama (or whomever's pulling his strings) is smart, he'll cut them off. They no longer deserve our support, and they haven't for a long time now. They're more trouble than they're worth. This isnt about politics or policy And yet your making a political statement was the premise upon which this entire thread was started. Jarrod, do you long for the innocence of Iran-Contra? I know I do. Hear, hear! Just to clarify, people: We've had a despotic idiot for a president for the past eight years, and I'm glad to be rid of him. I just hope that Obama has the good sense not to offer up our sovereignty to the rest of the world on a plate as some form of apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 this is the best thing israel has given us the people in it are ****ing disgusting but that beat is catchy as **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth333 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Two continents actually. That depends on the system you use: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continent (I was taught the 3rd model) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I watched it during school, and I have to say that I thought he had a very interesting speech--a good one. Hopefully Obama will do good to this country. Only time will tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHawke Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 With PM Harper that's not really safe anymore I'll see how Obama does (he speaks well but what will get done remains to be seen) and maybe I'll start saying that I'm American lol (after all, it's true too as America is a continent). Hmm... maybe I need to keep an eye more north then. And yeah about the whole America thing, there are quite a few Americans out there and they aren't only just from the good ol' US of A... all of us from North and South America are all equally Americans. Now if we only all thought that way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRF_Vader Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 With PM Harper that's not really safe anymore I'll see how Obama does (he speaks well but what will get done remains to be seen) and maybe I'll start saying that I'm American lol (after all, it's true too as America is a continent). uh?...what about South America and several other regions and countries? (well that's more of a Kavar discussion and more than just telling "who to vote for" too...). Didn't Bush also said "you are with us or against us" at some point? Besides, no one really told you "who to vote" for. Americans voted for Obama, not the rest of the world. Most of us merely hoped... That being said, everyone can have an opinion, including the rest of the world A country can't just go out and attack another one, adopt strong sanctions against others and expect the rest of the world to just sit down and nod in agreement. I'm not just talking civilian populations, though thats a part. Foreign leaders were actually putting pressure to elect obama. Except China, ironicly, who seems disturbed that Obama won. Are you serious? I just can't believe I am reading that. Why adopt sanctions that will affect civil populations directly when diplomacy can do it? Obviously, you have never lived in a war zone of any kind... I guess that means you dont support the sanctions on North Korea or Iran? You know, negotiations and diplomacy dont always work, especially when the leader says "no" and "Go away" to everything you propose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I'm not just talking civilian populations, though thats a part. Foreign leaders were actually putting pressure to elect obama. And how, exactly, has any national leader pressured you or any other American citizen to vote for Obama? I don't remember anyone promising to declare war or impose sanctions if Obama lost, and I certainly haven't heard anything about Americans being kidnapped and coerced into voting Obama. The closest I've heard is multiple leaders expressing their own support for him - that's a far cry from pressuring anyone. Except China, ironicly, who seems disturbed that Obama won. I don't think Stephen Harper, the Canadian PM, is too happy about Obama winning either. He's already losing support here in Canada because of how he's handling relations with the former President-elect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Avlectus Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Firstly, I just want to say that, if the rest of the world will now calm its ire towards us for this or whatever reason, I'm fine with it. At the very least, now people who have not been successful can't make certain accusations about the fair opportunities this country offers. Without being too specific, this means that the whole "I'm being held down by the man" cop out will be seen more for what it actually is, now. Which I am grateful for. Hardly. You are typing on a computer in a Star Wars forum in an American chair. Maybe you are poor by American standards, but that is still damn well better than a lot of the world. Good one, Avery. True. That's the way I like to see things. I may be considered the trash of my neighborhood, but to someone else in the world I probably have it good. Remembering that is an effective strategy when you wake up feeling like the day is gonna just be whack. It's a sad day when America's sovereignty is usurped by foreign opinion. We have to vote democrat to get foreign aid and respect now? That disgusts me in more ways than one. The EU has just as much influence as the US, but we dont go around telling each memebr nation who to vote for. Dont like what the US is doing? Sanction us, raise tariff's on US export's. Or just deal with the fact we're a sovereign nation and intervene militarily if it's really affecting your nation negatively. But dont try to tell America how to run its own nation. That's just my opinion on the the whole foreign reaction. As far as Obama, well he's president now. It would be stupid to hope for anything but sucess. I hope america becomes stronger under obama, even if i preferred another candidate and party. Agreed, and well said. You forgot CAFTA earlier, BTW. I'm not going to run if it turns into scrambled eggs and dog $#^&. I'll find a way to solve the problem, as is the American way. ALSO: I'm no isolationist, but can't we get at least SOME production lines back into the country again??? From a pragmatic viewpoint, if a natural disaster occurred and separated us physically from everyone else...we'd be SCREWED. We produce very little if anything at all in our country. Furthermore as an American soverigntist (you call me a nazi and I'm a dropkick your ass), I think it might actually be nice if we could retain a bit of our national identity. At least take a breather, eh? Also I'd like it to mean something again that whole "Proudly Made In America" thing. Harley Davidson status. This is not a left or right issue, democrat or republican, because there are people on both sides of the aisle on both sides of the issue. I guess that means you dont support the sanctions on North Korea or Iran? You know, negotiations and diplomacy dont always work, especially when the leader says "no" and "Go away" to everything you propose. That's a pretty valid point. If I have learned any few things, you 1) *cannot* be everybody's friend (I don't care what that deliciously hot piece of ass, Morgan Webb, says on X-PLAY) 2) whether or not you did anything or whom ever is at fault--you cannot "talk" to anyone if he/she is unwilling under any circumstances to even hear you out. I wish it could be different, but wish in one hand and spit in the other, see which one gets full fastest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Sorry if those buildings falling and your pocket book lightening a few pounds left you hurt a little. After re-reading your post, this really caught my eye. Where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, I know now. It sounds hauntingly like "Sacrifices must be made," a statement that was often repeated throughout Atlas Shrugged, a good story that was unfortunately crippled by Ayn Rand's excrutiatingly horrible writing style. It is interesting to note that it's a statement used time and again by the financial looters and moochers in the story to morally justify the continued slavery of the financial producers to support their malevolently parasitic behavior as they systematically wrecked the economy and all of society along with it. Could this be a case of life imitating art? FYI, promoting slavery, spousal homicide/abuse and murder will get you banned on these forums. Obligatory philanthropy = slavery. Oh, the irony! Sorry that you have a roof over your head, access to guns, right to vote, and zero concept of what actually being poor means. It must be so hard being an American right now for you. I must say that once again I find your assuming, presumptive judgementalism, your condescending attitude and your willful expression of self-perceived, moral and intellectual elitist superiority to be astounding, but no longer inflammatory or even mildly insulting when I consider the source, and hardly surprising given your past behavior. I actually find it all quite amusing now, in spite of it's obviously despicable nature and intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I feel more positive about things with Obama in and W Bush out... but they haven't DONE anything yet for me to be "with them"... let's see some results first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Well, he closed Gitmo, and that's definitely a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Oh yeah, I know now. It sounds hauntingly like "Sacrifices must be made," a statement that was often repeated throughout Atlas Shrugged, a good story that was unfortunately crippled by Ayn Rand's excrutiatingly horrible writing style. It is interesting to note that it's a statement used time and again by the financial looters and moochers in the story to morally justify the continued slavery of the financial producers to support their malevolently parasitic behavior as they systematically wrecked the economy and all of society along with it. Could this be a case of life imitating art? Nice try. Never read any of her books, so I wouldn't know. I am merely stating that this country has overreacted heavily to a lot of things in the past 20 years. Two buildings fell, and 3,000 people died. Horrible yes. But it was a single attack with, in my opinion, a relatively low amount of casualties compared to what other nations go through on a daily basis. And I stand by my point that the nations coin purse being a little lighter has caused a huge overreaction in the media, which they have only used to create a widespread fear that led to more banks closing than needed. I never stated "sacrifices must be made". You are the one that stated that by saying "We should go off on our own and leave all this dead weight behind." If anything, you are the one telling me that sacrifices must be made for the betterment of the country and democracy. Obligatory philanthropy = slavery. Oh, the irony! Point out where I have said any of the above before you start making unfounded accusations. I must say that once again I find your assuming, presumptive judgementalism, your condescending attitude and your willful expression of self-perceived, moral and intellectual elitist superiority to be astounding, but no longer inflammatory or even mildly insulting when I consider the source, and hardly surprising given your past behavior. I actually find it all quite amusing now, in spite of it's obviously despicable nature and intent. Slavery? Looter? Moocher? I told you to deal with the fact that sometimes life sucks, and that being an American right now is still one of the best lives you could have compared to a lot of the world regardless of how so called poor you are. You made an unfounded assumption and compared me to Rand, a woman who's books I have never touched. You accuse me of support slavery, lying, cheating, and other actions without pointing out anywhere in my posts in which I say such. I'm not the one telling the world "screw you guys and everything you stand for." I'm telling you that you have a good life, that 9/11 and the crisis have been blown out of proportion by a Nation that is far too comfortable with peace, and that you should be counting your blessings instead of giving everyone else the middle finger. By the way, calling me any of the above makes you a hypocrite. Just so you know. Your past behavior isn't exactly a clean plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I never stated "sacrifices must be made". Sorry if those buildings falling and your pocket book lightening a few pounds left you hurt a little. *whistles* If anything, you are the one telling me that sacrifices must be made for the betterment of the country and democracy. How so? We could be completely self-sufficient if big business would stop outsourcing our jobs, thereby forcing us to be on the government dole. And not only do I believe that the US would be better off without the rest of the world leeching off of our wealth and meddling in our affairs, but I also believe that the rest of the world would be better off without our meddling in theirs. How is this unreasonable? You made an unfounded assumption and compared me to Rand, a woman who's books I have never touched. Incorrect. I compared your statements to those made by certain characters in her book. Her philosophy is the polar opposite of yours, BTW. You accuse me of support (sic) slavery, lying, cheating, and other actions without pointing out anywhere in my posts in which I say such. Slavery to the rest of the world's wants, needs and opinions: yes. The rest that you baselessly added, apparently for dramatic effect: no. I'm not the one telling the world "screw you guys and everything you stand for." Neither am I. I merely stated that we would be better off without all of the disadvantageous (to the US, that is) trade agreements (hence, the looting and leeching part) and that the rest of the world would be better off without the US' playing the role of global beat cop. I'm telling you that you have a good life Who's making unfounded assumptions, now? You know next to nothing about me or my life, nor would you want to, I'd wager. By the way, calling me any of the above makes you a hypocrite. Just so you know. Your past behavior isn't exactly a clean plate. Well, I'm just trying to fit in, here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adavardes Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Neither am I. I merely stated that we would be better off without all of the disadvantageous (to the US, that is) trade agreements (hence, the looting and leeching part) and that the rest of the world would be better off without the US' playing the role of global beat cop. [/thread]No offense to citizens of foreign nations, but I'm really not in favor of being dominated by a foreign power, even if (for now) it's just in the form of foreign opinion. I would really like nothing less than for the US to stop trying to be the world's cop, to tell the UN, China and everyone else what to go do with themselves and revert to splendid, economically self-sufficient, truly democratic isolation. If we had done so earlier 9/11 might never have happened. TBH: we really don't need you, and, as our economic downturn has indicated, we would be better off without you. Yup. Never said a damn thing about telling them to screw off. Also, your point about T_A's statement regarding the economic dent caused by 9/11 being about sacrifices is twisting words and taking things out of context at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Yup. Never said a damn thing about telling them to screw off. I was referring to the "everything you stand for" part, but touche, anyhow. Also, your point about T_A's statement regarding the economic dent caused by 9/11 being about sacrifices is twisting words and taking things out of context at best. Hardly. I respectfully disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adavardes Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hardly. I respectfully disagree. Well, you'd be wrong, I think. It seems to me that she was trying to convey a dislike in the attitude that 9/11 or the economic crisis are the biggest tragedies in national history. It's about over-exaggeration and whining about something that is much less significant in reality than it's being made out to be. It's like if you were to take an ice cream cone from a toddler, and he acts as if you just shot him in the leg. Same principle. You're just making it about something else to serve your point. Nice try though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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