Unpopular opinions

[Marius]

3 minutes ago, Lagomorph01 said:

Don't know if this is an unpopular stance or not, but I stopped following the news (and the RtMI thread) shortly after the trailer hit. I don't want to know anything more about it before the game hits! (Except where I can order my boxed copy!)

That’s awesome! I wish I had your strength. I’d love to do the same, but it’s impossible 😄 

[Thrik]

It is, truly. I tried to not watch this latest snippet, but I could not resist.

[Remi]

2 hours ago, Thrik said:

It is, truly. I tried to not watch this latest snippet, but I could not resist.

That is the problem with being a part of a journalistic, deep-diving, award-winning website like Mojo — with its integrity and grace we have to cover those teasers. For the people.

 

Or we just have no willpower or restraint, who can really tell?

[KestrelPi]

Some people cite that study where people enjoyed a film more when they were spoiled on it and... I find a lot of what it claims to be a bit dubious but there is one area where I think there's probably some truth in it...

 

And that's when dealing with the problem sequels have which is the weight of nostalgia and expectations. You can be the most open minded person in the world, the brain is still really good at conjuring up a blurry, ill-defined but somehow absolutely perfect version of the game you want, which it then will pit in a completely unfair contest with the reality that can never match that.

 

When I go into stuff truly unseen, I find I'm always fighting that part of my brain a little bit more, because it's constantly shouting for attention, saying 'hey, this isn't familiar! This thing's out of place. This voice isn't what I expected! This location looks weeiiirrd and that's wrong!' The brain isn't necessarily right here. These might be things I grow to love, but the brain is notoriously suspicious of the unfamiliar.

 

So I think what seeing a bit of the art style, interface, some dialogue and locations out of context, what it does for me is to help my brain dip its little brain-toes in the water, get used to the temperature, so that when it's time to submerge fully, it's less of a shock to the system and I can just enjoy it for what it is.

 

Anyway, carry on. Unpopular opinions.

[roots]

19 hours ago, KestrelPi said:

And that's when dealing with the problem sequels have which is the weight of nostalgia and expectations. You can be the most open minded person in the world, the brain is still really good at conjuring up a blurry, ill-defined but somehow absolutely perfect version of the game you want, which it then will pit in a completely unfair contest with the reality that can never match that.

 

This principle is a lot more far reaching than many realise. It applies universally, and is the reason why many older games have an impact that modern high-budget Triple-A games do not. Less is more, purely because there is a greater interface with the player's imagination which customises the experience.

 

Unfortunately, the common response is nostalgia/rose-tinted glasses strawmen.

[Lagomorph01]

On 7/26/2022 at 3:05 PM, KestrelPi said:

Some people cite that study where people enjoyed a film more when they were spoiled on it and... I find a lot of what it claims to be a bit dubious but there is one area where I think there's probably some truth in it...

 

And that's when dealing with the problem sequels have which is the weight of nostalgia and expectations. You can be the most open minded person in the world, the brain is still really good at conjuring up a blurry, ill-defined but somehow absolutely perfect version of the game you want, which it then will pit in a completely unfair contest with the reality that can never match that.

 

When I go into stuff truly unseen, I find I'm always fighting that part of my brain a little bit more, because it's constantly shouting for attention, saying 'hey, this isn't familiar! This thing's out of place. This voice isn't what I expected! This location looks weeiiirrd and that's wrong!' The brain isn't necessarily right here. These might be things I grow to love, but the brain is notoriously suspicious of the unfamiliar.

 

So I think what seeing a bit of the art style, interface, some dialogue and locations out of context, what it does for me is to help my brain dip its little brain-toes in the water, get used to the temperature, so that when it's time to submerge fully, it's less of a shock to the system and I can just enjoy it for what it is.

 

Anyway, carry on. Unpopular opinions.

I get what you're saying, and I think it's a VERY healthy way of looking at it!

I've just been psyched about this from the beginning, so I'm pretty sure I've stopped following the news at the right time. Before the trailer I was pining for more information. Now, I feel like I have enough to keep me curious for the next couple of months.

Because of social media, I feel entertainment industries have a tendency to overfeed their audience with information to stay relevant between all the other releases. That's why I choose to control the amount of information I'm getting.

For example, I've heard they showed off one of the chapter screens, and I'm really glad I didn't see it yet! I want to save those for when I play the game!

 

(So please keep all spoilers in the RtMI thread.)

Edited July 27, 2022 by Lagomorph01
Last sentence added

[ThunderPeel2001]

Every time I've walked out of a cinema with my jaw on the floor. (And it's happened maybe three times in my life.) I went into a see a film I knew nothing about. Zero, zip, nada. And every time I've left been disappointed, it's because my expectations were too high going in.

 

I remember when Jurassic Park came out. I was a HUGE Spielberg fan. There was no doubt I was going to LOVE this film. It was MADE for me! I devoured every morsel that the TV at the time could give me. Every behind the scene snippet  Every interview. Every trailer.

 

I've never felt so disappointed. I want back, again and again, trying to watch the film everyone else was seeing... but every time I saw a film that didn't meet my super-hyped expectations. (It was only decades later, during lockdown, that I finally enjoyed it.)

 

Spoilers spoil. I don't give a frig what a study allegedly shows. Give me ignorance, or give me death.

[KestrelPi]

2 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Every time I've walked out of a cinema with my jaw on the floor. (And it's happened maybe three times in my life.) I went into a see a film I knew nothing about. Zero, zip, nada. And every time I've left been disappointed, it's because my expectations were too high going in.

 

I remember when Jurassic Park came out. I was a HUGE Spielberg fan. There was no doubt I was going to LOVE this film. It was MADE for me! I devoured every morsel that the TV at the time could give me. Every behind the scene snippet  Every interview. Every trailer.

 

I've never felt so disappointed. I want back, again and again, trying to watch the film everyone else was seeing... but every time I saw a film that didn't meet my super-hyped expectations. (It was only decades later, during lockdown, that I finally enjoyed it.)

 

Spoilers spoil. I don't give a frig what a study allegedly shows. Give me ignorance, or give me death.

 

Everyone's different, though? Like I said, I don't know that I fully follow the logic of that study, and I definitely don't tend to, say, want to know the twists and turns of a film's plot in advance. But I can see how there are situations where knowing something about what to expect can increase my enjoyment.

 

Case in point: I really like No Man's Sky. Not the subsequent billions of patches later version we have now (it's fine, I check in occasionally and I think it still works) but original, vanilla No Man's Sky, I had a really nice time with. And I think it's because I looked at everything I could about that game before it came out. And that helped me understand that the version of the game that the media outlets were often describing and that the hype machine had spun out of control with was not the more modestly ambitious thing the devs were actually pushing. That's not to say the devs didn't make some misjudgement in how they messaged stuff, but it was clear by the end they really wanted to temper people's expectations of what the game was which had sort of run amok.

 

I was looking forward to the game because I'd looked a bit closer and seen that what I should expect is a cool first person game where I fly a spaceship around lonely but pretty environments with a nice, slow chilled out pace, and not some epic galaxy spanning adventure of incredible proportions.

 

Knowing some limited amount of information about what I'm about to experience sometimes can help me to meet the thing on its own terms. I'm less interested if it's a totally new thing, because then I am already loaded with zero expectations. But when we're talking about a sequel, especially one saddled with a weight of nostalgia, then especially then I often consider it beneficial to know a little of what I'm getting into. Not like... a plot synopsis, or important twists. Just a flavour of it.

 

To me, nothing they're going to show before release can possibly spoil ReMI for me. Because I'm confident they won't show anything they feel is important to keep secret. All it can do is whet my appetite. And for me I think what makes me confident they have the balance right is: so far everything I've seen raises more questions than it answers. There's satisfaction to be found in having those questions answered, so I'm already more invested in playing than I was this time last week. Take the latest one, a few questions that weren't in my head this time last week, but now are:

 

Spoiler

 

• Why does the judge act so strange?
• What made Brrr Muda freeze over? Was it always that way?
• Will we ever see a thawed out Brr Muda and is that part of a chain of puzzles? (I won't be disappointed if not, but I'm curious about if that's where they're going with it)

 

 

I want to know the answers to these. I'm happy and invested. I know it's not for everyone, and there's also enjoyment to be found in going into stuff totally unseen, but... well, like I said, everyone's different.

[BaronGrackle]

Everyone is different, indeed. I think I enjoy things whether spoilered or fresh, but in different ways.

 

My play order was VGA Secret (1993 or 1994, I think), followed by Curse in 1997, and eventually Revenge in 1999 when I was in high school. And I think this contributed to Revenge being my favorite MI game for many years.

 

To me, Curse of Monkey Island's manual and in-game dialogue hyped the everliving heck out of Revenge. I opened the instruction manual and saw the Guybrush I knew from Secret standing on one end, and I saw this new Guybrush (a cartoon version of Secret, almost) on the other end, and between them was the Guybrush I wanted to be - looking like he did in Secret, but with that cool successful pirate coat. Throughout the game I'd hear references to Big Whoop as this dark mysterious force... and Guybrush couldn't quite remember what had happened, just like I didn't quite know what happened. I was right with him in that bumper car when Curse began.
 

Then I went on the internet, and it was filled with a similar reverence and respect for the ending of MI2, arguably at the height of fan obsession with the mystery of what "the true secret" of MI would have been.

 

So I went into LeChuck's Revenge already knowing the premise, most of the in-jokes (because I went to these Lucasarts websites and checked the in-jokes for every game), Wally's and Largo's existence, the detailed fate of Marley's crew (I got joy from seeing the same stories in the library book that LeChuck had already told me in Curse, and in seeing Rapp Scallion's reanimation without the memory bubble) , a vague notion of the island names, and the knowledge that I was going to end the adventure standing in Mêlée's alleyway and, eventually, as a child trapped in an amusement park while possibly or possibly not being LeChuck's brother.
 

I was spoilered to the major beats, but not the minor details, and that unique blend definitely left a positive impact.

[Jake]

Hi, just here to say that is an awesome post.

[KestrelPi]

1 minute ago, Jake said:

Hi, just here to say that is an awesome post.

You have to have a unique perspective here too, being someone who for Tales had ALL the spoilers in advance, and created a good number of them. I often wonder, being on that side of the equation, how I would deal.

 

Do you find that as time passes it feels less like a thing you were a part of and more like 'just another game in the series' or is it hard to untangle the general feelings you have about Monkey Island and the specific feelings you had about helping to make that specific Monkey Island?

 

Anyway... to talk to myself for a little while... I suppose eventually we ALL know all the spoilers. I still play and enjoy the first two games every so often even though I know them almost beat for beat (admittedly I like waiting until I've forgotten a game a bit before I replay it but with MI that gets harder and harder).

 

But you can never go back, right. Once you've played it the first time, that's done. The only way I've found to recapture some of that first-play feeling is to watch someone else do it for the first time. Just to get a little bit of a second-hand taste of that first-play feeling.

 

So I totally get people having a desire to want to keep it as pure as possible, because you only get one shot. But to me it's a tradeoff. I trade a little bit of the joy of surprise for the luxury of not having to play a bullet hell game of spoilers with the internet, and for a little bit of a taste of what's to come, and for the enjoyable few months of pre-release speculation the promotional material lets me be involved in. For me that's a fair trade, but think I get why not everyone would want that.

[Jake]

I played 2 before 1, so I had a similar experience to @BaronGrackle, where for me certain events were “foreshadowed” and made to seem hugely epic, or were alluded to in hushed tones and shrouded in mystery, or offered widows into relationships I only knew the end of. And of course the door to the alley, a place I’d never been but knew was important and eerie just from how it was treated. It made finally going back and playing 1 a totally different experience than I imagine it would have been if the order was flipped, but still a great and unforgettable one. 
 

Working on Tales in this context is something I’d probably need to sit down and think on to do properly, so I will wait before trying to write that up. 

[BaronGrackle]

Ending it with Guybrush and Elaine watching fireworks. Kind of sublime.

 

EDIT: I'm going to choose to believe this influenced the final dialogue options in Tales, as you sailed into the sunset and had a few line choices that mirrored the ones at the end of Secret.

Edited July 28, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[Jake]

16 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

EDIT: I'm going to choose to believe this influenced the final dialogue options in Tales, as you sailed into the sunset and had a few line choices that mirrored the ones at the end of Secret.

That was likely Mark Darin! I didn’t write any of Tales, or any game  

[KestrelPi]

37 minutes ago, Jake said:

I played 2 before 1, so I had a similar experience to @BaronGrackle, where for me certain events were “foreshadowed” and made to seem hugely epic, or were alluded to in hushed tones and shrouded in mystery, or offered widows into relationships I only knew the end of. And of course the door to the alley, a place I’d never been but knew was important and eerie just from how it was treated. It made finally going back and playing 1 a totally different experience than I imagine it would have been if the order was flipped, but still a great and unforgettable one. 
 

Working on Tales in this context is something I’d probably need to sit down and think on to do properly, so I will wait before trying to write that up. 

 

I so very nearly had the same experience. I think I'm glad that I played them in order in the end, but I remember after seeing the intro to 1 and 2 I begged my Dad to get 2. Back then story just wasn't something I thought about in games, so even though I could see that there was story and dialogue in it, my 10 year old brain just wanted the latest game with the biggest number. If I played Mega Man 2 without 1, I could play Monkey Island 2.

 

My dad will have forgotten, but I always wonder why he persuaded me to get 1 instead. I reckon it was because it probably would have been cheaper.

[BillyCheers]

I also played CMI first. And I think for people new to MI today, CMI still is a very good, maybe the best, first game to get into the series (maybe an unpopular opinion?).

 

Like @BaronGrackle I felt like I was in the same boat as Guybrush at the beginning. A great new adventure starts, with a mystery from the past – of which be both don’t know much about (anymore). If you look at it, CMI is kind of a soft reboot: It feels like a complete new story, which is funny, given the open ending of MI2. But it brings you into this world so smooth and elegantly that you never feel lost – even when you come across characters or events from 1 and 2.

And on top of that, it’s just a really great game!

 

One negative thing I only felt at my last replay is, that many of the dialogues are just not thaaat interesting or funny (not bad, but not amazing either). Most of them are a too long and too often I found myself skipping them, because I just didn’t care. There are highlights of course (e. g. Griswold Goodsoup) and often the voice over saves it for me, but in the end I enjoyed the dialogues much more in MI1, MI2 or TMI.

 

But of course, the rest of the game is so great, that I don’t mind this thaaat much.

[BaronGrackle]

Unpopular opinion: I like LeChuck's monologue in Part V and listen through it every time.

[Marius]

I don’t like the island hopping in Monkey 2. It’s so easy and quick that the world feels small to me. I like the puzzle sequences, but would’ve preferred Part 2 to take place on one island.

[elTee]

3 minutes ago, Marius said:

I don’t like the island hopping in Monkey 2. It’s so easy and quick that the world feels small to me. I like the puzzle sequences, but would’ve preferred Part 2 to take place on one island.

You know you can also swim between the islands, right? Takes absolutely ages 😉

[Marius]

17 minutes ago, elTee said:

You know you can also swim between the islands, right? Takes absolutely ages 😉

https://giphy.com/gifs/cbc-schittscreek-schitts-creek-vgtUfRstZNLyTLiJkP
 

(If that was real I’d actually love that feature. 😄 Similar, I like to play Breath of the Wild without using teleporters.)

[Jake]

WOW wild take. I love the island hopping. It is definitely less good on replays than it is when you first play the game, but on my first playthrough, which is my most memorable one, the world felt huge and full of places containing secrets. 
 

That fantasy erases once you know the whole locale, so I fully get this opinion, but I still like it! 

[KestrelPi]

25 minutes ago, Jake said:

WOW wild take. I love the island hopping. It is definitely less good on replays than it is when you first play the game, but on my first playthrough, which is my most memorable one, the world felt huge and full of places containing secrets. 
 

That fantasy erases once you know the whole locale, so I fully get this opinion, but I still like it! 

Also to me it's so great as a structural thing for adventure games because it's like a little mental break. It's like trying to do a crossword and getting stuck then going for a walk and coming back and sorting it out straight away. Whenever I get stuck it's great to think I can just go somewhere else and change how I'm thinking about the problem.

[Remi]

Island hopping must’ve worked differently on the ST. 😉

 

When I first played MI2 (on a proper platform, the Amiga) it felt like an open world, jumping between different locations like that. It added a vastness reminiscent of the Indy movies.

 

Not to say that feeling can’t be achieved on one single island, at least up to a point. Monkey in MI1 definitely had a similar vibe.

[Jayel]

Same. I remember it feeling like an open world teeming with stuff (though it's just an illusion). I also loved how each island felt very distinct: Scabb/Woodtick was cozy, Phatt was seedy, Booty was festive... I feel like in later games, all the locations kinda blur together (maybe that's my unpopular opinion!)

[Marius]

1 hour ago, Remi said:

Island hopping must’ve worked differently on the ST. 😉

It was the worst! Wasn't even released on ST.

 

I totally get the responses and can relate. I do love the different flavors and personalities of the islands. The crossword analogy is a good description of the feel for players not knowing the solution. My (what it looks like indeed!) unpopular opinion definitely comes from my POV of knowing the solutions by heart.

 

What I meant was that I don't get the journey-flavor I crave, you know. Like, mainly, my brain travels between the islands in order to solve puzzle chains. But narratively, it is so fast it breaks the illusion for me. I can't imagine Guybrush having enough patience to spend ages on sea back to Scabb just to pick up a green drink.

It's still better than Fate of Atlantis though . Casually flying back and forth between countries just pulls me out of the experience.

 

I don't have that issue with the other Monkey Island games. Maybe it's another unpopular opinion, but I LOVE how much I have to walk in Mêlée Town in the first game. The place feels so real I don't mind the slow walking speed and the absence of fast travel.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Marius