Return to Monkey Island

[Kroms]

2 hours ago, Vainamoinen said:

While I am in panic waiting for the GOG announcement

By this point, it's doubtful that GOG will have the game on its release date. I encourage you to buy it on Steam. Look, I hate DRM too, but if that's the way the wind is blowing at the moment...

Edited September 14, 2022 by Kroms

[Vainamoinen]

3 hours ago, Kroms said:

I encourage you to buy it on Steam.

 

Not in this life.

[KestrelPi]

I consider myself a fairly principled person.

 

But if my copy of Return to Monkey Island was locked in a hatch that would only unlock when I pressed a button labelled 'By Pressing This Button I Acknowledge That I Fully Support The British Monarchy. Long Live King Charles!'...

 

...I would be spamming that button from 2 minutes to midnight on Sunday until whenever it opened.

Edited September 14, 2022 by KestrelPi

[Al.DeHyde]

I thought I was a fairly principled person but I preordered the download for the Switch yesterday 😁

Still definitely won't be buying the Steam version though.

[Vainamoinen]

Better yet, presenting the pirate leaders with evidence of trial completion could be the first actual side quest in the Monkey Island series!

[KestrelPi]

9 minutes ago, Vainamoinen said:

Better yet, presenting the pirate leaders with evidence of trial completion could be the first actual side quest in the Monkey Island series!

 

I get the feeling it's not that important. Even in the clip the pirate leaders say they don't really care. And in interviews Dave seems to imply it's not a big thing: "Technically, I suppose that’s true. Whether that matters or not is sort of up to you. "

 

But that said, I love the notion that you could somehow present them with all the evidence optionally and that changes the ending.

 

Though that said. IS it the first sidequest? I'm trying to think if there are any other optional puzzles at all in any of the games. I guess ... sinking your ship in MI1 could concievably count. And in MI2 you can optionally win various prizes on the wheel of fortune though it's not a different puzzle. As far as EMI goes I can't remember, and I can't think of any for CMI or Tales.

Edited September 14, 2022 by KestrelPi

[Vainamoinen]

The official communication always was "It's not about the nostalgia", but we already know that two dozen characters and two islands will return, and that Guybrush is rather explicitly out to retread the paths and relive the glory of the past days. It will be so interesting to see how these seemingly contradictory things can be seamlessly joined. Naturally, fans are ambivalent in that respect too – they proclaim that they want to see something new and fresh, but would still rejoice at recognizing backgrounds, characters, and themes.

 

Optionally collecting proof of trial completion would be a great and unobtrusive way to give the more nostalgia minded what they want out of the game, without upsetting the people who are trying to keep their experience new and fresh – but I also don't think they will do this particular thing.

 

Still, I would love to see more pronounced "side quests" in point and click adventure games, and I kind of expect ReMI to radically shake things up in some areas, so ... who knows, especially at this point?

[KestrelPi]

I s'pose thinking about this with a design brain on, one of the reasons that side-goals in adventure games aren't so popular might be that they could muddy the rest of the puzzle design. After all if I have to not just think about what items I have and how they will help me complete the goals to progress the story of the game, but also think about what I have that is not related to the main goals of the game but some side stuff, and ALSO possibly be sure if something I'm doing is actually required or optional... well, I guess that could make the whole puzzle structure somewhat messy. Players could spend ages wondering about stuff that is absolutely unnecessary.

 

A good design could work around these things, though. An adventure game I'm starting to design needs to have a sort of quest log of 'goals' because the way the puzzles work kind of demands it, and I could easily see that just being extended to include critical and optional side goals. But it doesn't look like this game is doing anything like that, so I guess they'd want some other way of conveying when a task is important or not.

[Jake]

I think if you were making an adventure game that had some sort of interactive narrative element (rpg style or telltale style "dynamic" character relationships, either entirely narratively based or stat based) you could start delving into side quests, either optional or mutually exclusive or whatever else. Like you said Kestrel, I think players would need to know the rules around them. If you're just making a SCUMM style game, side quests will potentially muddy the water of  "what is progress" (since in a SCUMM game players understand any puzzle solution to be progress, thats the arrangement you make with the developer when playing those games). I think as long as the rules of how your world works are communicated early on, you can try things like "side quests in an adventure game." That doesn't mean it literally needs to say it on the box, but you would need to build an early scenario whose job (in the game design sense) is to train players on the rules, on what their actions in the game world mean.

 

That is a half-baked post, I'm sorry. Please don't debate me on the finer points because I just dashed it off.

[BaronGrackle]

1 hour ago, KestrelPi said:

 

I get the feeling it's not that important. Even in the clip the pirate leaders say they don't really care. And in interviews Dave seems to imply it's not a big thing: "Technically, I suppose that’s true. Whether that matters or not is sort of up to you. "

 

But that said, I love the notion that you could somehow present them with all the evidence optionally and that changes the ending.

 

Though that said. IS it the first sidequest? I'm trying to think if there are any other optional puzzles at all in any of the games. I guess ... sinking your ship in MI1 could concievably count. And in MI2 you can optionally win various prizes on the wheel of fortune though it's not a different puzzle. As far as EMI goes I can't remember, and I can't think of any for CMI or Tales.

I think you're exactly on point. It was Dave's twitter comment about "a technicality" that made me theorize we'd do Trials again, but reading the Mojo interview has changed my mind.

 

And yet, I hadn't considered your thought on it maybe affecting the ending!

1 hour ago, Vainamoinen said:

The official communication always was "It's not about the nostalgia", but we already know that two dozen characters and two islands will return, and that Guybrush is rather explicitly out to retread the paths and relive the glory of the past days. It will be so interesting to see how these seemingly contradictory things can be seamlessly joined. Naturally, fans are ambivalent in that respect too – they proclaim that they want to see something new and fresh, but would still rejoice at recognizing backgrounds, characters, and themes.

 

Optionally collecting proof of trial completion would be a great and unobtrusive way to give the more nostalgia minded what they want out of the game, without upsetting the people who are trying to keep their experience new and fresh – but I also don't think they will do this particular thing.

 

Still, I would love to see more pronounced "side quests" in point and click adventure games, and I kind of expect ReMI to radically shake things up in some areas, so ... who knows, especially at this point?

Wouldn't it be fantastic if Guybrush coincidentally and subtly completed the Trials again (eg. fought Carla for reasons, found treasure on Mêlée because he needed money, met up with Elaine who had the Idol just because), and nobody in the game commented on it.

12 minutes ago, Jake said:

I think if you were making an adventure game that had some sort of interactive narrative element (rpg style or telltale style "dynamic" character relationships, either entirely narratively based or stat based) you could start delving into side quests, either optional or mutually exclusive or whatever else. Like you said Kestrel, I think players would need to know the rules around them. If you're just making a SCUMM style game, side quests will potentially muddy the water of  "what is progress" (since in a SCUMM game players understand any puzzle solution to be progress, thats the arrangement you make with the developer when playing those games). I think as long as the rules of how your world works are communicated early on, you can try things like "side quests in an adventure game." That doesn't mean it literally needs to say it on the box, but you would need to build an early scenario whose job (in the game design sense) is to train players on the rules, on what their actions in the game world mean.

 

That is a half-baked post, I'm sorry. Please don't debate me on the finer points because I just dashed it off.

I imagine things like... a combination of finding your crew in Secret (or Curse or Escape), plus choosing your group in Maniac Mansion.

 

Imagine recruiting three MM-like characters for your crew. Jeff is easy to recruit, you just ask him... but he can't get you to Monkey Island. The other potential recruits unlock a different puzzle path Guybrush could use to get there... Bernard has the most satisfying solution, but he's the hardest to recruit. And then, as you reach Monkey Island, you're rewarded with unique dialogues (or altered ending) based on which puzzle-routes and hoe many puzzle-routes you solved to get there.

Edited September 14, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[Jake]

whoa. a maniac mansion-style game that starts with the full collection of teens and act 1 is to recruit three of them would be... awesome?

 

(I know some RPGs have this sort of structure for recruiting party members. I remember a very adventure game-like version of it in the prologue of West of Loathing. But I don't think I've really seen it applied at large scale to a full on point and click. Could be cool!)

[Vainamoinen]

20 minutes ago, Jake said:

I think as long as the rules of how your world works are communicated early on, you can try things like "side quests in an adventure game." That doesn't mean it literally needs to say it on the box, but you would need to build an early scenario whose job (in the game design sense) is to train players on the rules, on what their actions in the game world mean.

 

That is a half-baked post, I'm sorry. Please don't debate me on the finer points because I just dashed it off.

 

It's great for what it is. 😇

 

Adventure games more than any other have to communicate what your goals are and what the mechanics to achieve them are. I think that is because the best games demand a fair bit of exploration in a huge playground and suggest vast interactive options for the player. There has to be some guidance because she'd get lost immediately, and getting lost never was fun, even in the nostalgia covered old days. So yes of course, side quests could be confusing! And a questlog would feel fairly out of place in an adventure game.

 

As great as the "You completed Act I of the first game" banner would be for the superfans, that just wouldn't be a particularly fun thing for the newbies. And I'd like all newbies aboard!

 

Seamlessly integrated interactive story elements (like the often raised ship sinking option in TSoMI) should do the trick, and I hope there's plenty in the game. I'm not a big fan of substantially altered endings, but I guess the core of it will remain the same in ReMI.

[LowLevel]

New interview with Noah Falstein: he confirms his prediction about thesis written in the future for Return to Monkey Island and says that the game is not only entertaining but also quite deep, in some way. 🙂

 

 

[demone]

Also, IGN posted a new video featuring the Voodoo Lady. Not really implicating her having serious involvement in the overarching story, at least in terms of her agenda, but one short clip at the beginning of the game isn't too much to go off of, especially since the video was more about a feature rather than her character. 

 

Trying to be vague for anyone who hasn't seen the video. 

[Joe monsters]

1 hour ago, demone said:

Also, IGN posted a new video featuring the Voodoo Lady. Not really implicating her having serious involvement in the overarching story, at least in terms of her agenda, but one short clip at the beginning of the game isn't too much to go off of, especially since the video was more about a feature rather than her character. 

 

Trying to be vague for anyone who hasn't seen the video. 

 

I forced myself to stop the video when

Spoiler

Guybrush is opening the book. I don't want to be spoiled on puzzles.

... but I'm excited as well, so it's really hard to stop myself from watching more.
Argh!

[KestrelPi]

7 minutes ago, Joe monsters said:

 

I forced myself to stop the video when

  Hide contents

Guybrush is opening the book. I don't want to be spoiled on puzzles.

... but I'm excited as well, so it's really hard to stop myself from watching more.
Argh!

 

If it helps, I don't think the hint reveals anything we haven't seen in clips before.

[Remi]

No real spoilers in the video, but the music is banging. Slow, but banging. Slow-banging.

[BaronGrackle]

2 hours ago, LowLevel said:

New interview with Noah Falstein: he confirms his prediction about thesis written in the future for Return to Monkey Island and says that the game is not only entertaining but also quite deep, in some way. 🙂

 

 

We'll see if it beats The Cave. That's the top dog essay fodder right now, in my opinion. 😛

 

But people actually HAVE delved into Secret of Monkey Island with essay quality, of course.

Edited September 14, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[Joe monsters]

37 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

 

If it helps, I don't think the hint reveals anything we haven't seen in clips before.

Awesome! I’ll watch it, then.

[ThunderPeel2001]

You know, when we've all finally completed ReMI, I'm going to miss the intense period of activity we've enjoyed since April 😥

 

I wonder if I could get Ron to delay the release... 🤔

Edited September 14, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[tmetic]

 

 

Ron putting the Universal Hints System out of business...

 

Edit: Thank you @Remi for fixing my formatting!

Edited September 14, 2022 by tmetic

[ThunderPeel2001]

 

 

 

[JacquesSparkyTail]

1 hour ago, Remi said:

No real spoilers in the video

Clearly you didn’t notice those boots. Major character development incoming. 😮

[BaronGrackle]

Has anyone listed the Scrapbook contents shown so far? It looks like...

 

 

PAGE 1
- Intro

PAGE 2
- Pirate Leaders
- Swordplay Trial
- Thievery Trial
- Treasure Huntery Trial
- Meeting Elaine

PAGE 3
- LeChuck kidnapping Elaine
- LeChuck himself
- Assembling the crew of Carla, Otis, and Meathook
- Buying the Sea Monkey from Stan

PAGE 4
- Using weird ingredients for a soup to navigate to Monkey Island
- The Cannibals
- The Giant Monkey Head
- The cotton swab Monkey Key
- Herman Toothrot (with a mouse?)
- LeChuck's ship anchored in lava under Monkey Island

PAGE 5
- Crashing the wedding...
- ...but Elaine already had a plan
- Root beer kills ghosts
- LeChuck's head asplode
- Fireworks ending

PAGE 6 (Monkey Island 2 begins)
- Wally
- Wally's monocle
- The Voodoo Lady
- Four Map Pieces
- Elaine and Guybrush hanging by ropes on Dinky
- LeChuck using the voodoo doll on Guybrush

 

 

I think it's reasonable to guess that

 

Largo LaGrande probably won't appear in this game. And hopefully we get to steal Wally's monocle again.

Edited September 15, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[Jake]

I love the scrapbook. Hearing Dom read the lines in the IGN video was great.