Mass Effect for PC!!

[Lantzen]

Well, i don't like being treated as a criminal when i but my games, when those that download it wont have any problems with it because they don't need a activation code and so on.

[Ghost Down]

I don't get it, what's the big deal? They already removed the 10 day revalidation. All that is left is the 3 times install limit. Which only applies if you upgrade or build a new system. You can install it a million times on your current rig if you never upgrade it!

[Ctrl Alt Del]

I don't get it, what's the big deal? They already removed the 10 day revalidation. All that is left is the 3 times install limit. Which only applies if you upgrade or build a new system. You can install it a million times on your current rig if you never upgrade it!

Oh sure, you bought it but you can't use it as you will? No big deal.

[Lantzen]

Why even have such a system ? It don't do anyone any good to have that system. I can understand the antipiracysystem, even if i don't think that work either if you read my post that is a little above. But a 3time limit is just stupid.

 

What annoys me most is that the pirates get a game that works without any limits or protection programs that sometimes is very bad for the computer. Some of those protection program do so you most turn of multiple other programs (Like daemon tools and some other), and the pirates wont have those problems. And if i want to install Mass Effect after some years have passed, i don't want contact EA just so i can play the game. I still reinstall Kotor, and i have changed my system multiples time since i first played it, i wouldent even bother if i would need to contact support to play the game again

[Ghost Down]

Bioware said that if EA will shutdown the servers, they would release a patch that would remove the check.

[Char Ell]

I realize there are many people that oppose the anti-piracy DRM measures BioWare and EA implemented for Mass Effect for PC. I am glad BioWare listened to the outcry from their fanbase and removed the 10 days re-authentication period for MEPC. However I don't think a 1st tier publisher like EA is ever going to pull a Stardock and release their PC games without any anti-piracy features. So, if given a choice between dealing with a 3 activations limit or not getting Mass Effect for PC then I'll take the limit. PC is my gaming platform of choice and I'm willing to deal with some inconvenience as opposed to not being able to play games like MEPC at all. Of course there are those that aren't willing to accept any restrictions at any level and I understand that. I just hope those individuals consider the fact that piracy is a huge problem for PC gaming and developers/publishers are trying to find ways to prevent illegitimate use of their games and only allow their paying customers to enjoy their work. An ideal solution has not yet been found and so we're left to deal with the process of trial and error as such a solution is sought for. BioWare and EA took it too far with their latest attempt and due to the overwhelming opposition had to take a step back. But until piracy is greatly reduced or eliminated publishers and developers are going to continue to wage war against piracy and as oft happens in war there are innocents that get caught in the middle.

[Lantzen]

But the thing is it just the innocents that suffer, and not the enemy (Pirates). If the antipiracy program would work, then i wouldent whinne so much about it, but the thing is it don't work for more then 3days most of the time, and absolutely not more then a week.

 

@Ghost Down: At least that is a good thing, but if EA don't shut down the server it will still be the same problem in two years for some people, or less time for some

[Phantom Joker]

But the thing is it just the innocents that suffer, and not the enemy (Pirates). If the antipiracy program would work, then i wouldent whinne so much about it, but the thing is it don't work for more then 3days most of the time, and absolutely not more then a week.

 

Gamespot posted an interview with Martin Slater of 2K Australia (publishers of BioShock). They were thrilled that the game was not cracked for thirteen days, though they took a beating over their DRM (also SecuRom, IIRC). If that is a successful time frame to make money on a game, I can see in the incentive of the publishers. After all, as many have pointed out in this thread and others, it is not currently possible to create an uncrackable game. But, two weeks sounds like it might be do-able. If that is the difference between profit and loss (or at least seen as such by the publishers), that's an awful big incentive to pack the game with a monster DRM system.

 

I dunno. As much as I hate to say it, I don't think that invasive DRMs are going anywhere anytime real soon.

 

Looks like the consumers (us) have a choice to make. Buy it and put up with the draconian DRM or simply don't get the game.

[Serpentine Cougar]

So, if given a choice between dealing with a 3 activations limit or not getting Mass Effect for PC then I'll take the limit.

Seconded.

[JCarter426]

Can't argue with that.

[SpaceAlex]

Gamespot posted an interview with Martin Slater of 2K Australia (publishers of BioShock). They were thrilled that the game was not cracked for thirteen days, though they took a beating over their DRM (also SecuRom, IIRC). If that is a successful time frame to make money on a game, I can see in the incentive of the publishers. After all, as many have pointed out in this thread and others, it is not currently possible to create an uncrackable game. But, two weeks sounds like it might be do-able. If that is the difference between profit and loss (or at least seen as such by the publishers), that's an awful big incentive to pack the game with a monster DRM system.

 

I dunno. As much as I hate to say it, I don't think that invasive DRMs are going anywhere anytime real soon.

 

Looks like the consumers (us) have a choice to make. Buy it and put up with the draconian DRM or simply don't get the game.

 

Then I won't get it until they remove the DRM. I'm in no rush anyways. If the game won't sell, they might reconsider it. If people who are against this sort of protection simply whine but still buy the game, they will put this in their next game aswel.

[Scatter]

Gamespot posted an interview with Martin Slater of 2K Australia (publishers of BioShock). They were thrilled that the game was not cracked for thirteen days, though they took a beating over their DRM (also SecuRom, IIRC). If that is a successful time frame to make money on a game, I can see in the incentive of the publishers.

what!?

 

the problem with that line of thought is that it completely ignores a well researched fact (one that almost the entire industry save for a few indie companies seem determined to ignore too): pirates don't buy games. period. average pirate joe blow illegally downloading a game doesn't equate to a lost sale, because if joe can't get the game for free, he simply won't bother getting it at all.

 

all "anti-piracy" measures do is cost publishers a fortune, annoy legitimate customers, and provide a minor nuisance/challenge to a cracker. want proof? check out any bit-torrent site armed with a list of every new release (be it a game or any other form of mainstream software) of the past month. every single one of them will be there. every. single. one. patches? they'll be there too. cracked and ready to install.

 

like the music industry before it, the software industry is trying to tackle the issue of piracy in completely the wrong way. and because of that, it's a battle they can never win.

 

what was it leia said in ANH? "the more you tighten your grip, the more systems will slip through your fingers." all "protective measures" like this are doing are turning more and more people toward piracy.

 

Of course there are those that aren't willing to accept any restrictions at any level and I understand that. I just hope those individuals consider the fact that piracy is a huge problem for PC gaming and developers/publishers are trying to find ways to prevent illegitimate use of their games and only allow their paying customers to enjoy their work.

they really, really aren't. for the reasons i stated above, the absolutely minute number of extra sales picked up by preventing piracy is totally insignificant. whether the people who protest about the piracy measures know it or not, this is ENTIRELY about a revenue stream publishers discovered with the advent of MMORPG's - and the distribution of software has been slowly heading toward a certain business model ever since.

 

think about how DRM's are handled with most video (and music?) you purchase online. you pay a fee, you have access to said video file for X amount of time. the time expires, if you want further access to that video, you pay another fee.

 

welcome to the future of gaming.

[Char Ell]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion on the matter, Scatter. Like it or not, Mass Effect for PC has DRM in the form of a one-time online activation after the game is installed and a limit of 3 activations per game. If you are stating that EA and BioWare are migrating single player games towards an online business model similar to MMORPG's then that is an interesting theory. I certainly disagree with your assessment that the DRM implemented in MEPC isn't an attempt to prevent piracy however.

[Prime]

I don't get it, what's the big deal? They already removed the 10 day revalidation. All that is left is the 3 times install limit. Which only applies if you upgrade or build a new system. You can install it a million times on your current rig if you never upgrade it!

But what if you do want to upgrade in a piecemeal fashion?

[JCarter426]

I guess we can only hope that the process of getting another installation token isn't as bad as it sounds.

[Lance Monance]

I just hope those individuals consider the fact that piracy is a huge problem for PC gaming and developers/publishers are trying to find ways to prevent illegitimate use of their games and only allow their paying customers to enjoy their work.

 

But their ways seem to be a hindrance for legitimate customers and a challenge for crackers. Those who get pirated copies of a game can enjoy it without a protection that interferes with everything.

[Phantom Joker]

what!?

 

the problem with that line of thought is that it completely ignores a well researched fact (one that almost the entire industry save for a few indie companies seem determined to ignore too): pirates don't buy games. period. average pirate joe blow illegally downloading a game doesn't equate to a lost sale, because if joe can't get the game for free, he simply won't bother getting it at all.

Not entirely true. I agree that the vast majority of pirates do not and will not buy the game. But it seems that there are enough, for lack of a better word, "casual" pirates that will shell out the money if they cannot get the game for free. An interesting article on Gamasutra by the director of marketing of Reflexive shows some of the numbers. To paraphrase, they estimated that for every 1000 pirates thwarted, they made 1 extra sale. So far, your point seems to be ahead. But here's the clincher, that 1:1000 ratio increased their sales by over 70%. That, my friend, is nothing to sneeze at, and that is why I say DRM is going to be with us until there are no more offline games.

 

 

all "anti-piracy" measures do is cost publishers a fortune

 

Say what you want about some of the publishers, I'm reasonably certain that they can do math. Do you believe that they would waste that money, time, and effort if they didn't think it would pay off?

 

...annoy legitimate customers

There, we are (mostly) in agreement. I've already stated that I'm not planning on picking up MEPC for that reason.

 

...for the reasons i stated above, the absolutely minute number of extra sales picked up by preventing piracy is totally insignificant.

Apparently not. See my point above.

 

this is ENTIRELY about a revenue stream publishers discovered with the advent of MMORPG's - and the distribution of software has been slowly heading toward a certain business model ever since.

 

...welcome to the future of gaming.

Agreed. Last I checked, business still kept score in money.

 

Now, for the record, I'm going to say that I cannot justify game piracy on any ethical or moral grounds. (And yes, in the interest of full disclosure, I have made copies of games in the past.) However, from a practical standpoint, I will also stipulate that it's near impossible to eliminate it. Again though, from a practical standpoint, the publishers have every right to do what they can to maximize their profits. Whether you agree with me or not, well, that's what these forums are for.

 

The question then is: what is "reasonable?" For my way of thinking, I'm going to refer to that Gamasutra article again for a bit. One thing that jumped out was that the first--minimal--fixes that the publishers put on the game (fixing existing exploits and known keygens) increased sales by 70%. Further fixes and increased DRM resulted only in minor decreases or increases in sales.

 

 

In short

Do I believe that game publishers have the right to put DRM protection on their games? Yes.

 

Even ridiculously over-bearing and counter-productive ones? Yes.

 

Do I believe that consumers have the right to donwload cracked copies that they didn't pay for on the basis of draconian DRM? No.

 

Do I believe that consumers have the right not to buy (or play) the game on the basis of draconian DRM? You bet.

 

I don't know where the line is and I suspect that it lies with each consumer, but my 2 cents worth says that a three-activation limit is over the line.

[Scatter]

uh PJ, the 1:1000 numbers back my point up entirely.

 

the 70% line though... that's just hilarious. do the math mate, it simply doesn't add up: to meet the 70% increase at the accepted 1:1000 ratio, a game would have to prevent 700,000 pirates for every 1,000 legitimate sales. given that the average game shifts around a half million units (we're talking average here, for your blockbuster titles like gta iv you can multiply these numbers by a factor of 8 or greater), that would equate to preventing three hundred and fifty million instances of piracy from a pool of three hundred and fifty billion instances.

 

1:1000 is probably a close guess as to the number of sales lost due to piracy, but there is no way that number leads to a sales increase of 70%. none whatsoever.

[Char Ell]

But their ways seem to be a hindrance for legitimate customers and a challenge for crackers. Those who get pirated copies of a game can enjoy it without a protection that interferes with everything.

True, however I don't recall saying that the anti-piracy measures implemented in Mass Effect for PC were an ideal solution for the piracy problem, or even an effective solution at that. I'm just saying that publishers are going to continue their anti-piracy efforts until they find a solution that greatly reduces the piracy problem. Of course if few PC players who are willing to pay for their PC games find the publishers' anti-piracy solutions to be acceptable then it seems likely that PC games as we know them now will cease to exist. It's a real problem and there isn't an easily identifiable solution as far as I can tell.

[mur'phon]

Phantom, if what you say is true, then the protection on mepc is not making them any extra money.

 

I guess we can only hope that the process of getting another installation token isn't as bad as it sounds.

 

You Sir have never had to call EA:D

[Phantom Joker]

uh PJ, the 1:1000 numbers back my point up entirely.

As I said, sir in my post...

 

the 70% line though... that's just hilarious. do the math mate, it simply doesn't add up: to meet the 70% increase at the accepted 1:1000 ratio, a game would have to prevent 700,000 pirates for every 1,000 legitimate sales.

 

And your point? Again, I'm reasonably certain these guys can add.

 

given that the average game shifts around a half million units

 

Citation, please?

 

but there is no way that number leads to a sales increase of 70%. none whatsoever.

Did you read the article, sir?

 

Again, do you really believe these guys are going to waste the time and money for something that is useless?

[jonathan7]

Again, do you really believe these guys are going to waste the time and money for something that is useless?

 

It does depend on how savy a computer user is. Personaly I pay for my games, as my most prefered format for playing games is PC. However all the copyright protection, doesn't stop piracy, and infact, just makes life difficult for those of us who do legally own games. e.g. the CD check is a completely pointless feature, since I know the cracked versions don't have it.

 

I do however hope a satisfactory method of security can be found, that significantly hits piracy, but DOESNT, effect gaming overly for me. I cannot comment on how succesful the anti piracy software with ME is.

[Pavlos]

Review roundup, guys.

 

The most common score seems to be somewhere around 9/10.

[Ghost Down]

Man, I still have to wait a week for it to hit the shelves in Europe!

[Jae Onasi]

People seem to be doing a good job here about being careful with the subject of illegal downloads. However, since we're talking about the problem of illegal downloads I thought I'd remind everyone that talking about how to crack the game or specifics on how to obtain it in any other way but buying it legally is not allowed here. Thanks.