Astrotoy7 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 No thread about the new prez? This isnt an opportuinty for Republicans and Obama haters or bigots to go on their customary rants. This isnt about politics or policy or what type of president Obama will be. I'd just like to focus one one thing: Perceptions. I am often surprised that some Americans have little grasp of how their nation is perceived by the rest of the world. It has nothing to with most citizens at a personal level, but a general perception engendered by the acts of powerful or prominent groups of individuals. Without going into it too much, the point at hand is that now, with the election and inauguration of Mr Obama, son of an African immigrant - the greatness of your nation so prominently displayed during WW2 has shone through again. Seeing faces of many culture and ages, especially young people at the inauguration was inspiring. For the first time in decades, there is a very positive vibe bout the US, which can only be a good thing. For those of you planning on travelling overseas, you no longer have to say you're Canadian to avoid being overcharged or not have your food spat in good luck mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHawke Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 For those of you planning on travelling overseas, you no longer have to say you're Canadian to avoid being overcharged or not have your food spat in I always go the Canadian route... just to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samnmax221 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 So you weren't with us before? Is this like being loved but not in love? I'm so confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 yay amerika!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Yay, I can leave the country now! But yeah, even from inside the country I get feeling you're describing. I've always felt like an outsider here and was seriously considering moving up to Canada. I just hope that he does a good job. Our standing in the world is finally being repaired and it would be crushing if this new bridge fell so early. First time in my life that I've had the opportunity to say that I'm beginning to feel proud to be a member of this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 So you weren't with us before? Is this like being loved but not in love? I'm so confused. This is why I put some in italics Mr Rushdie mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I'd just like to focus one one thing: Perceptions. I am often surprised that some Americans have little grasp of how their nation is perceived by the rest of the world. It has nothing to with most citizens at a personal level, but a general perception engendered by the acts of powerful or prominent groups of individuals. Without going into it too much, the point at hand is that now, with the election and inauguration of Mr Obama, son of an African immigrant - the greatness of your nation so prominently displayed during WW2 has shone through again. Yeah. I guess I'm one of those who fall into the "don't understand how America is perceived by the rest of the world" camp. I'm more like, "Hey, I don't tell you guys (Aussies, Brits, Canadians, French, Iraqis, Palestinians, et al.) who to vote for in your country. Don't tell me who to vote for in my country. I'll make up my own mind, thank you very much." Of course if people outside the U.S. are pleased Baraq Obama is now the president of the United States of America then I definitely don't think that is a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Of course if people outside the U.S. are pleased Baraq Obama is now the president of the United States of America then I definitely don't think that is a bad thing. This is exactly what I was trying to convey. From good will, great things can flow It's not only us outsiders who felt this way though... compare the crowd at GW Bush's inauguration to Obama's (or even Clinton's). mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lantzen Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Yeah. I guess I'm one of those who fall into the "don't understand how America is perceived by the rest of the world" camp. I'm more like, "Hey, I don't tell you guys (Aussies, Brits, Canadians, French, Iraqis, Palestinians, et al.) who to vote for in your country. Don't tell me who to vote for in my country. I'll make up my own mind, thank you very much." Well, USA is the country that affect the world the most, ofcourse the rest of the world reacts what happens in USA. Just look at Bush, how much haven't he affected the world, not just for USA but also for Europa ? I don't want to start a discusion about that, but i hope you see my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samnmax221 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 This is why I put some in italics Mr Rushdie mtfbwya Oh, in other news I would never pretend to be Canadian, because that's where Celine Dion is from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Oh, in other news I would never pretend to be Canadian, because that's where Celine Dion is from. Yeah, and I have to say on behalf of my country: we're so, so sorry about her. We're working on fixing the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I'm more like, "Hey, I don't tell you guys (Aussies, Brits, Canadians, French, Iraqis, Palestinians, et al.) who to vote for in your country. Don't tell me who to vote for in my country. I'll make up my own mind, thank you very much." But who we vote for tends not to **** up the rest of the world for everybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztalker Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Saying America isn't the largest and most influential nation would be lying. So when you got the whole world looking at you, it's better to see a nice, warm, (relatively) young black man then a (in the eyes of most foreigners) stupid, old, torturing oil boss. It's NOT how these two men really are probably, but it's how the rest of the world perceives them. And, to be honest, to ask for a stop on Guantanamo bay on your first day opposed to taking vacation requires solid brass balls. To quote Mr. Borat: "I like!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arátoeldar Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Congrats USA: the world is now with you![/Quote] Yea, but the first time Obama does something in America’s own self-interests the goodwill will be just as quickly lost. It's not only us outsiders who felt this way though... compare the crowd at GW Bush's inauguration to Obama's (or even Clinton's). I believe the crowd had more to do with historic importance of the day. It was something that I have never thought I’d witness in my lifetime. It was nice to witness a monumental moment in American History that was not filled with tragedy. The last time I remember that happening was when I was a little one and my mother woke me up to witness Neil Armstrong’s walk on the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salzella Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 agreed. the act of simply voting Obama in has done loads for my perception of America. i've been there only once, and saw the good and bad sides of the country i think, but the rest of my experience has come from the top which, let's face it, was not always a pretty sight. so yah. 's a good thing definitely. and dayummm, Obama can speak a good speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adavardes Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I have to say that this election, and Obama's inaguration, has been the first time in my adult life that I have been proud to be an American. A lot of people are putting down Obama voters because they get caught up in how charismatic and gifted in oration and rhetoric he is, but I can honestly tell you that there are people, like me, that realise what he stands for, what he plans to do, and will enjoy seeing the changes he can possibly bring to the floor. Not everyone is just entranced by his words, to me, as a far-left libertarian, they make sense. Just to clarify, for some individuals around here: Socialism =/= Communism. No. Just no. Diplomacy and Negotiation =/= Surrender. I'm sick of hearing this, and this is probably number two on the top ten reasons why other countries have hated us in the past, right below what I believe is the first reason, Earth =/= Planet America. It is not our job to tell people how to build their governments, nor is it our job to stick our noses into every possible conflict we can. Just so you know, America's form of Democracy isn't the perfect governmental system. We have some of the lowest quality EVERYTHING besides military. And that's just sad, because some people act as if we're the greatest country ever. We're not. I think Obama's eventual repudiation of these ideals in American government is what will finally make us part of the international community, as opposed to remaining the role of militaristic bully that Bush has pushed us farther into. So, finally, I have some optimism about this country. Go Obama! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [/thread] No offense to citizens of foreign nations, but I'm really not in favor of being dominated by a foreign power, even if (for now) it's just in the form of foreign opinion. I would really like nothing less than for the US to stop trying to be the world's cop, to tell the UN, China and everyone else what to go do with themselves and revert to splendid, economically self-sufficient, truly democratic isolation. If we had done so earlier 9/11 might never have happened. TBH: we really don't need you, and, as our economic downturn has indicated, we would be better off without you. We don't need GAT, we don't need NAFTA, and we don't need China's cheap-assed goods produced by near-slave labor flooding our markets, stealing our jobs and ruining our economy. Both the Democrats and the Republicans (along with their respective special-interest groups) are guilty of selling us out to foreign economic dominance and it's only a matter of time before they sell our sovereignty as well. I will never forgive them for it. My answer (which, sadly, I think is quickly becoming the only answer now): Viva la Revolution! That's right: Bring on the hate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 No offense to citizens of foreign nations, but I'm really not in favor of being dominated by a foreign power, even if (for now) it's just in the form of foreign opinion. I would really like nothing less than for the US to stop trying to be the world's cop, to tell the UN, China and everyone else what to go do with themselves and revert to splendid, economically self-sufficient, truly democratic isolation. If we had done so earlier 9/11 might never have happened. TBH: we really don't need you, and, as our economic downturn has indicated, we would be better off without you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II Yeah, because our economy is -really- that bad right now. And what happens when one of those economically individual countries decides "hey, I'm big enough and strong enough to create a damn good military" and realized that the smaller countries around it aren't doing so well with their own system. Isolationism worked great as we watched Europe get eaten by the Nazi's. How long do you honestly think Britain would have held out before they held enough resources and forces to gather back up and stage an attack on us? Their ultimate goal was to take over the world, and our decided to stop having our head jammed heavily up our own *** helped turn the war around. Yeah, lets just not acknowledge there are 6 billion other people on this planet and live in our own little world. Oh, right. I forgot. China did that and they ended up falling back nearly a hundred years technologically to the rest of the world. They face overpopulation, and their government oppresses the ever living hell out of them. Yeah, isolationism worked fantastically for them. You may sooner die than see this country be friends with someone, but I'd sooner leave than see us go backwards a hundred and fifty years because we don't want to deal with the fact we are one of many countries on this planet. You really think that would have stopped 9/11? That building your own little island away from the rest of the class is just going to make all of the world's problems vanish? Really? There would be -no-chance of a country gaining enough power to start taking its neighbors? No change of anyone getting larger than us to do significant damage? No chance that a complete lack of communication between countries could cause distress, tension, etc? That just disolving the UN would create peace at last. A long, long history of human warfare has shown that sticking to yourself and refusing to believe that actual human beings live across that river has created disastrous results for civilization after civilization. I hate to keep going back to this, but we kicked Germany out into its own little corner of the room and decided to just forget about them. They had hardships at first, but all it took was the rise of a single man to convince the country that their little world needed to be spread across the world. Their economy did in fact flourish on their own when they turned on the rest of the world. Which, I'll remind you, America was attempting to be isolationist from. I'm sorry, but this economic crisis has been blown out of proportion by the media to the point of the media doing more damage than the actual bank problems. 9/11 was a pathetically small attack compared to what other countries go through. Sorry if those buildings falling and your pocket book lightening a few pounds left you hurt a little. Sorry that you have a roof over your head, access to guns, right to vote, and zero concept of what actually being poor means. It must be so hard being an American right now for you. Besides, its a pipe dream now that we have global communication like the Internet. You can keep running, but you'll never be alone until you close every inch of the border permanently and cut all lines to the rest of the world. In which case we would be the most spoiled emo child on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 hopefully we can keep our wars secret now, like they're supposed to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adavardes Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II Yeah, because our economy is -really- that bad right now. And what happens when one of those economically individual countries decides "hey, I'm big enough and strong enough to create a damn good military" and realized that the smaller countries around it aren't doing so well with their own system. Isolationism worked great as we watched Europe get eaten by the Nazi's. How long do you honestly think Britain would have held out before they held enough resources and forces to gather back up and stage an attack on us? Their ultimate goal was to take over the world, and our decided to stop having our head jammed heavily up our own *** helped turn the war around. Yeah, lets just not acknowledge there are 6 billion other people on this planet and live in our own little world. Oh, right. I forgot. China did that and they ended up falling back nearly a hundred years technologically to the rest of the world. They face overpopulation, and their government oppresses the ever living hell out of them. Yeah, isolationism worked fantastically for them. You may sooner die than see this country be friends with someone, but I'd sooner leave than see us go backwards a hundred and fifty years because we don't want to deal with the fact we are one of many countries on this planet. You really think that would have stopped 9/11? That building your own little island away from the rest of the class is just going to make all of the world's problems vanish? Really? There would be -no-chance of a country gaining enough power to start taking its neighbors? No change of anyone getting larger than us to do significant damage? No chance that a complete lack of communication between countries could cause distress, tension, etc? That just disolving the UN would create peace at last. A long, long history of human warfare has shown that sticking to yourself and refusing to believe that actual human beings live across that river has created disastrous results for civilization after civilization. I hate to keep going back to this, but we kicked Germany out into its own little corner of the room and decided to just forget about them. They had hardships at first, but all it took was the rise of a single man to convince the country that their little world needed to be spread across the world. Their economy did in fact flourish on their own when they turned on the rest of the world. Which, I'll remind you, America was attempting to be isolationist from. I'm sorry, but this economic crisis has been blown out of proportion by the media to the point of the media doing more damage than the actual bank problems. 9/11 was a pathetically small attack compared to what other countries go through. Sorry if those buildings falling and your pocket book lightening a few pounds left you hurt a little. Sorry that you have a roof over your head, access to guns, right to vote, and zero concept of what actually being poor means. It must be so hard being an American right now for you. I agree with all of this, but at the same time, America has taken that attitude and blown it way out of proportion. The problem with American foreign policy as it stands today is not that we need to go back to isolationist policies, but rather that we need to take a step back and take part in international affairs and global military desputes as an equal member of the global community: not as the self-proclaimed world cop. We have a problem with thinking it's our right, just because we have the military power, to get involved in every single conflict. That's not how it works. There needs to be a balance of diplomacy and negotiation, and working in equal force with the UN and other international organisations, instead of throwing our proverbial manhoods around like it's our divine mandate to play hero. Becoming isolationists wouldn't work, I agree with you on that much, but remaining the way we have been, as the global bully, won't work either. And the sad fact is, we can find middle ground on that fairly easily, it's just that we haven't wanted to, because most of the American populus has been living in a dream world where only America matters, and American opinions are the omnipotent law of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 1) 9/11 probably would not have happened if we had ceased any and all support of Israel and it's aggressive policies. They're not exactly fighting for their survival as a nation now and haven't been for nearly 30 years. 2) The only reason that we got into WWII was because FDR wanted us to, and he and his administration worked very hard to make it happen. Through deft political maneuvering, they goaded Japan into attacking us. And the Red Army would have eventually crushed the Wehrmacht on their own. We didn't save the world from Nazi Germany. We saved western Europe from the Soviets. Read up on it. 3) I am poor, but I didn't used to be. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 1) 9/11 probably would not have happened if we had ceased any and all support of Israel and it's aggresive policies. They're not exactly fighting for their survival as a nation now and haven't been for nearly 30 years. Agreed completely. However, I wasn't pointing out 9/11 in general. I was pointing out that staying Isolationist would hardly bring us complete peace from the rest of the world. If anything, it could create more internal conflict than we could handle. Countries that stay entirely to themselves and only themselves, over time, build up tension between the internal parties. If you think Democrats and Republicans hate each other now, wait till they have nothing else to blame but each other. And, again, that is not including the next Hitler that could and probably will come around. We could stay Isolationist next time, but it is honestly only so long before it bites us in the ***. I'd rather be with everyone and share small problems than be alone and get one huge problem surprise later. 2) The only reason that we got into WWII was because FDR wanted us to, and he and his administration worked very hard to make it happen. Through deft political maneuvering, they goaded Japan into attacking us. And the Red Army would have eventually crushed the Wehrmacht on their own. We didn't save the world from Nazi Germany. We saved western Europe from the Soviets. Read up on it. Nazi Germany lost because they tried to fight a 2 front war. They nearly had Britain, even though they were putting up an admirable defense. If they had managed to take Britain, then Hitler would have only had a 1 front war to fight with Russia. And Japan, afraid Russia would attack China, invaded China and caused their own little Holocaust. Being apart of the Axis, it would have been a matter of time before Japan decided to fight Russia. At that point, Russia would have been fighting a two front war this time. And that is not counting possible unions with Hitler upon the fall of Europe's shining hope of Britain. We didn't single handedly win, but we gave a good part of the world enough moral support with our joining to create a unified force to help Russia push Hitler back. And you still contradict yourself by saying we saved Europe from the Sovs. We came out of isolationism to supposedly save Europe from the soviets -because- we joined. If we had not joined, then maybe Russia would have taken most of Europe for itself and more. With all of those resources, I gather that Russia would have probably won the Cold War arms race and quite possibly attacked us if the Nukes were not as plentiful in that alternative universe. 3) I am poor. Hardly. You are typing on a computer in a Star Wars forum in an American chair. Maybe you are poor by American standards, but that is still damn well better than a lot of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 1) 9/11 probably would not have happened if we had ceased any and all support of Israel and it's aggressive policies If there was no significant financial and military ties between the US and Israel, sure. But this is really, fantastically unlikely. 2) The only reason that we got into WWII... Read up on it. The reason they got involved is the same as when any nation gets involved in a conflict. To further or protect their own interests, particularly financial interests ; and of course to protect their own citizens. Yes, the Russians may have indeed defeated ze Germans - but do you really think the US would have let the Russians have all of Europe to itself... zOMG! Between Russia and China, half of the world would have been a Communist state. I cannot see any capitalist nation thinking that was a super idea !! Conflict for "political maneuvering" is called a Cold War and there was plenty of that later on, once the allied nations divided up Europe as they saw fit 3) I am poor, but I didn't used to be. If you have enough money to afford food for sustenance, clothing, shelter, you are not poor. Simple. I knew some would eventually try and turn this thread into a rantfest. This isnt an opportuinty for Republicans and Obama haters or bigots to go on their customary rants. This isnt about politics or policy or what type of president Obama will be. Still, I am glad that the overall feeling is positive Go USA! [/pleased to be able to finally say it] mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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