Return to Monkey Island

[Garystu]

4 hours ago, KestrelPi said:

I really like this take on the previous design too. I imagine it went through a fair amount of iteration. I wonder if at first Rex tried doing something else with the front of the hair but Ron said he wanted it just like that old piece, heh.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to come off as hostile to your point, though.

 

Fair enough if you like the old piece. It's not bad.

 

And I'm sorry if my response was also aggressive.

 

I don't want to be needlessly harsh on the art. I also won't be positive just for the sake of positivity. It just turns out I genuinely don't have much bad to say about the art. I'm one of the people who started off not hot on it, but I'm enjoying it more and more and keeping my mind open.

 

A lot of people have compared this debacle to the Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker art style debate. I wasn't Online at that time, so I cant speak to those flame wars. But I was also a tween who had loved Zelda: Ocarina of Time. I wanted Link to look badass, of course I did. To cut a long story short, I learned a life lesson about being wrong about art. And it really is a life lesson, if I'm still applying it twenty years later. Wowie.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Guybrush Transmasc

[Thrik]

4 hours ago, KestrelPi said:

I really like this take on the previous design too. I imagine it went through a fair amount of iteration. I wonder if at first Rex tried doing something else with the front of the hair but Ron said he wanted it just like that old piece, heh.

It wouldn’t surprise me if this were the case, that or in some early discussion Ron said anything can change apart from that sweep of hair!

[Laserschwert]

I would love to get an artbook for this game, both to see the evolution of the designs and to get a good look at some full backgrounds.

[KestrelPi]

2 minutes ago, Guybrush Transmasc said:

 

And I'm sorry if my response was also aggressive.

 

 

Nah, you're good.

 

I'm not without bias here, I understand that. It might be that I have an abundance of empathy for Rex because I've met him personally on a couple of occasions some years ago and we have some mutual friends, and he's always come across as very sweet and modest but also talks really intelligently about his approach to art.

 

When Rex was announced I think a lot of people probably thought 'who?' but my reaction was just to totally relax. I remember just feeling a sense of calm wash over me and thinking 'it'll be fine' because it's so obvious to me he lives and breathes this stuff.

When I see someone say 'see how this picture is such an improvement' I can't help but imagine him smiling slightly uncomfortably and talking about how they're really for different purposes and he still likes the original, but the new design enables them to do a lot more with it, etc etc. That's where I'm coming from

[Vainamoinen]

3 hours ago, Laserschwert said:

I would love to get an artbook for this game, both to see the evolution of the designs and to get a good look at some full backgrounds.

 

I envision it as an oversized coffee table book that merges official design with fan art, interspersed with the kind of walkthrough that LucasArts was putting out back in the day i.e. with extra official art, jokes, and behind the scenes stuff.

 

I call it "Return to Monkey Island. A mostly failed attempt at a walkthrough."

 

Oh, and you're going to do the layout.

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Vainamoinen

[Garystu]

1 hour ago, KestrelPi said:

 

Nah, you're good.

 

I'm not without bias here, I understand that. It might be that I have an abundance of empathy for Rex because I've met him personally on a couple of occasions some years ago and we have some mutual friends, and he's always come across as very sweet and modest but also talks really intelligently about his approach to art.

 

When Rex was announced I think a lot of people probably thought 'who?' but my reaction was just to totally relax. I remember just feeling a sense of calm wash over me and thinking 'it'll be fine' because it's so obvious to me he lives and breathes this stuff.

When I see someone say 'see how this picture is such an improvement' I can't help but imagine him smiling slightly uncomfortably and talking about how they're really for different purposes and he still likes the original, but the new design enables them to do a lot more with it, etc etc. That's where I'm coming from

 

Ah, wow, cool. That must be really exciting.

 

Yeah, I get it. This all isn't stuff I'd say to his face. I'm not directing these posts and comments personally at Rexbox at all. I couldn't, I don't think he's reading these posts (in the low chance he is: Hi). If I could talk to Rexbox personally about the art of ReMI, I wouldn't do it like that at all.

 

The old fanart just came up and I gave my thoughts. That's it.

 

He sounds like he would be really fun to talk about art with, from your description.

[Toymafia88]

1 hour ago, KestrelPi said:

 

Nah, you're good.

 

I'm not without bias here, I understand that. It might be that I have an abundance of empathy for Rex because I've met him personally on a couple of occasions some years ago and we have some mutual friends, and he's always come across as very sweet and modest but also talks really intelligently about his approach to art.

 

When Rex was announced I think a lot of people probably thought 'who?' but my reaction was just to totally relax. I remember just feeling a sense of calm wash over me and thinking 'it'll be fine' because it's so obvious to me he lives and breathes this stuff.

When I see someone say 'see how this picture is such an improvement' I can't help but imagine him smiling slightly uncomfortably and talking about how they're really for different purposes and he still likes the original, but the new design enables them to do a lot more with it, etc etc. That's where I'm coming from

Ah sorry if i offended with my 'improvement' comment.

 

I only discovered Rex this year but I've become a fan of Rex's art and recently bought Knights and Bikes just because I found the art really cool.

 

I admit I wasn't fond of the original fan art, but I mean no ill will to Rex and think he is a wonderful artist.

[KestrelPi]

14 minutes ago, Guybrush Transmasc said:

 

Ah, wow, cool. That must be really exciting.

 

Yeah, I get it. This all isn't stuff I'd say to his face. I'm not directing these posts and comments personally at Rexbox at all. I couldn't, I don't think he's reading these posts (in the low chance he is: Hi). If I could talk to Rexbox personally about the art of ReMI, I wouldn't do it like that at all.

 

The old fanart just came up and I gave my thoughts. That's it.

 

He sounds like he would be really fun to talk about art with, from your description.

 

Yeah, I see what you mean. I think the chances of him reading this are preeetty low, honestly. I did mention to him in passing that we're generally pretty excited over here in Mojo land but I suspect right now he just wants to keep his head down and see the game out.

 

Personally, and I think maybe part of it is to do with having various dev pals (and I promise this isn't a criticism of your approach, this is just the way I am), the older I get the more I find myself in a weird way both sharpening and mellowing out in the way I talk about stuff. I'm more specific than I used to be about why I like or dislike something, I spend more time talking about it and trying to unpack my feelings. But at the same time, while I don't always succeed, I try not to say anything in public about someone's work that I wouldn't be willing to say to their face as well. (in private forums, informally among small groups of friends though? Yeah, in those cases I might let loose a bit)

 

This isn't really out of politeness - well, partially out of politeness, I guess, but I guess if I read something I said and realise 'I'd never say it that way to their face.' it helps me to be more specific and generous with my criticism, and get at what I'm really trying to say. Again, promise this isn't supposed to be a dig at you, I'm just try'na explain my angle on it.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Toymafia88 said:

Ah sorry if i offended with my 'improvement' comment.

 

I only discovered Rex this year but I've become a fan of Rex's art and recently bought Knights and Bikes just because I found the art really cool.

 

I admit I wasn't fond of the original fan art, but I mean no ill will to Rex and think he is a wonderful artist.

Really and truly you're good... don't mean to make a whole thing of it, was just trying to explain why it maybe hit me a bit different and I felt the need to respond to it.

[Toymafia88]

Hey i just saw someone on the adventure gamer forums say that Ron has confirmed that Return to Monkey Island is releasing next month. 

 

I cant find a tweet from Ron, has anybody seen anything?

[demone]

14 minutes ago, Toymafia88 said:

Hey i just saw someone on the adventure gamer forums say that Ron has confirmed that Return to Monkey Island is releasing next month. 

 

I cant find a tweet from Ron, has anybody seen anything?

Not from what I can see. I wouldn't believe it unless we hear it from either Ron, Dave, or Devolver. 

[Jake]

Next month is Flamber, the 37 day long month, so maybe they’re onto something. 
 

 

[Niemandswasser]

18 hours ago, Ramen said:

 Maybe he lost it, maybe he grew too old, like many people do.

 

Or there's the third option, which is that he made the exact movie he intended to and it happened to be something you disliked. I didn't like Tenet either--I haven't liked a thing Nolan's done since Inception--so believe me when I say I'm not going out of my way to defend it, but saying a director you liked must have either aged out of his talents or forgotten how to use them without even considering that you maybe just weren't the target audience for his recent work is ludicrous. You're of course welcome to insist on viewing every piece of media you dislike as an instance where the creator has failed you personally, rather than as a place where your tastes and theirs simply diverge, but that's a great way to spend your life miserable, bitter, and spiteful. It's also the default position of a child who still thinks the world is there for the express purpose of meeting all their needs and who screams when told they can't have ice cream for breakfast, so don't be shocked when people react to you the same way. We're all here because we're interested in this upcoming game and have relatively optimistic expectations. The fact that you aren't and don't isn't going to change that, no matter how put out you are by our unwillingness to drop everything and go "Hey, Ramen hates how it looks! Let's talk about that for a while!" My strong recommendation would be to either adjust your expectations accordingly or, as I did after seeing Tenet, conclude that you've wasted your time on something that wasn't for you and go do something that brings you more joy. (Have you tried the Adventure Gamers forum? They've got a "Guess the adventure game scene" thread that a lot of people get a kick out of, and there have been plenty of newcomers joining in lately!)

[Ramen]

9 minutes ago, Niemandswasser said:

 

Or there's the third option, which is that he made the exact movie he intended to and it happened to be something you disliked. I didn't like Tenet either--I haven't liked a thing Nolan's done since Inception--so believe me when I say I'm not going out of my way to defend it, but saying a director you liked must have either aged out of his talents or forgotten how to use them without even considering that you maybe just weren't the target audience for his recent work is ludicrous. You're of course welcome to insist on viewing every piece of media you dislike as an instance where the creator has failed you personally, rather than as a place where your tastes and theirs simply diverge, but that's a great way to spend your life miserable, bitter, and spiteful. It's also the default position of a child who still thinks the world is there for the express purpose of meeting all their needs and who screams when told they can't have ice cream for breakfast, so don't be shocked when people react to you the same way. We're all here because we're interested in this upcoming game and have relatively optimistic expectations. The fact that you aren't and don't isn't going to change that, no matter how put out you are by our unwillingness to drop everything and go "Hey, Ramen hates how it looks! Let's talk about that for a while!" My strong recommendation would be to either adjust your expectations accordingly or, as I did after seeing Tenet, conclude that you've wasted your time on something that wasn't for you and go do something that brings you more joy. (Have you tried the Adventure Gamers forum? They've got a "Guess the adventure game scene" thread that a lot of people get a kick out of, and there have been plenty of newcomers joining in lately!)

Well, to be fair, you did crop out my next sentence, which was "I don't know." And the sentiment that it was simply not a good movie was shared by many others. Even the main actors admitted they did not understand it. And it does not disqualify the two former options, it is still entirely possible they are the reason.

You are making a whole lot of assumptions about what I think, that I have not even said anything about. I don't feel like anyone has failed me personally, I have said what I think, like everyone else does. You obviously do not agree with me, and that is fine, but I think it's a bit rude to use words like miserable, bitter and spiteful, and screaming, entitled child. If anything, that is how your message comes across to me, without me feeling a need to use that kind of language. I don't think I have acted like that, so I don't really think you are reacting the same way as me.

I'm also here because I'm interested in (and love) Monkey Island. That doesn't mean any critical thought is not allowed. That seems a bit intolerant, honestly. I haven't said you should change your mind, but it does seem that you think you can and should tell me what to do. Feel free to not respond, that is everyones right, of course

 

[Marius]

You think we'll visit "Geek Point" in Return?

 

Frank: "We don't know what Geek Point is over here. I don't know if you happen to remember that. "

Ron: "I do not remember a Geek Point at all. But now I want to add a Geek Point to my next game."

 

(See 3:29:59)

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Marius

[OzzieMonkey]

9 minutes ago, Marius said:

You think we'll visit "Geek Point" in Return?

 

Frank: "We don't know what Geek Point is over here. I don't know if you happen to remember that. "

Ron: "I do not remember a Geek Point at all. But now I want to add a Geek Point to my next game."

 

(See 3:29:59)

 

I've been wondering this ever since it was announced. Let's hope so!

[Thrik]

I’d love them to bring back the multiple screen concept for Monkey Island’s map, assuming it has one. That island always seemed so vast because of it, and although EMI condensed the maps anyway like a theme park map, nonetheless it still felt wrong seeing it on one screen.

 

Of course they could do some smooth panning this time. 😄

[Niemandswasser]

47 minutes ago, Ramen said:

Well, to be fair, you did crop out my next sentence, which was "I don't know." And the sentiment that it was simply not a good movie was shared by many others. Even the main actors admitted they did not understand it. And it does not disqualify the two former options, it is still entirely possible they are the reason.

You are making a whole lot of assumptions about what I think, that I have not even said anything about. I don't feel like anyone has failed me personally, I have said what I think, like everyone else does. You obviously do not agree with me, and that is fine, but I think it's a bit rude to use words like miserable, bitter and spiteful, and screaming, entitled child. If anything, that is how your message comes across to me, without me feeling a need to use that kind of language. I don't think I have acted like that, so I don't really think you are reacting the same way as me.

I'm also here because I'm interested in (and love) Monkey Island. That doesn't mean any critical thought is not allowed. That seems a bit intolerant, honestly. I haven't said you should change your mind, but it does seem that you think you can and should tell me what to do. Feel free to not respond, that is everyones right, of course

 

 

You keep doing this thing where you go "A lot of people agree with me" and seem to think that somehow proves your point, like if you can get a certain number of people to have the same opinion that automatically elevates it into an objective truth. It doesn't. I don't care how many people like their breakfast sausages with maple flavoring added--I think it tastes vile. Bring me eight million people who live and die by maple sausage, it's not going to change it for me. I don't want my delicious omelettes served up alongside pancake-flavored meat. If I find myself in the minority on that, then so be it. God grant me the wisdom to accept that the mainstream and I are out of step and the fortitude to live my life without materializing in the middle of pro-maple communities to call them all intolerant fanatics. I have better things to do than sit there Seething while everybody else Wolfs down their breakfast.

 

As to my tone, I apologize for straying from the standards of civility and mutual respect you established previously:

 

On 7/26/2022 at 2:52 AM, Ramen said:

It's not so much that people are getting used to it, as they are tired of getting attacked by fanatics.

 

On 7/26/2022 at 6:04 AM, Ramen said:

I don't pretend to hold some kind of higher standard because of it, but I am used to engage in discourse over technique and style. Something I can tell the people in this forum is not.

I'm not wounded anyone refuses to engage with me, I'm just pointing out that you are chasing away anyone who disagrees with your rose tinted view of what this is, and then parading around thinking you have changed peoples mind. Which you haven't. They just don't engage with you anymore, because you are gatekeeping and being aggressive towards them.

And I did not miss your sarcasm. I just don't engage with passive aggressiveness in the same manner you opt to do when my world view is challenged.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Niemandswasser

[KestrelPi]

Boy, it sure is good that there's a new Monkey Island game by Ron Gilbert and Dave Grossman coming out.

 

Golly gee

[Ramen]

10 minutes ago, Niemandswasser said:

 

You keep doing this thing where you go "A lot of people agree with me" and seem to think that somehow proves your point, like if you can get a certain number of people to have the same opinion that automatically elevates it into an objective truth. It doesn't. I don't care how many people like their breakfast sausages with maple flavoring added--I think it tastes vile. Bring me eight million people who live and die by maple sausage, it's not going to change it for me. I don't want my delicious omelettes served up alongside pancake-flavored meat. If I find myself in the minority on that, then so be it. God grant me the wisdom to accept that the mainstream and I are out of step and the fortitude to live my life without materializing in the middle of pro-maple communities to call them all intolerant fanatics. I have better things to do than sit there Seething while everybody else Wolfs down their breakfast.

 

As to my tone, I apologize for straying from the standards of civility and mutual respect you established previously:

 

 

A lot of people do agree. The part after that was added by you. I think a discussion of semantic truth vs. scientific fact is a digression, and a bit besides the point. I am simply saying what I think, as everyone else. The word fan is derived from fanatic.

It's not so much your tone, but what you actually write, and the words you chose to do so. It seems you are trying to start a fight, while at the same time putting a lot of words in my mouth and telling me what I should do and think, but I am not really interested in one  I hope you enjoy the rest of your Friday!

[Garystu]

the secret of geek point is that its inside all of us

[Thrik]

6 minutes ago, Ramen said:

It's not so much your tone, but what you actually write, and the words you chose to do so. It seems you are trying to start a fight, while at the same time putting a lot of words in my mouth and telling me what I should do and think, but I am not really interested in one  I hope you enjoy the rest of your Friday!

You don’t want to fight? You literally signed up to our forum to post this:

 

On 7/26/2022 at 10:52 AM, Ramen said:

It's not so much that people are getting used to it, as they are tired of getting attacked by fanatics.

The art/animation still looks awful and cheap.

…and since then have done nothing but try to argue with people about how bad you think the art looks, seemingly with nothing else to say.

 

And then of course, you don’t really care. You’re just relaxing in the sun. You totally aren't trying to stir the pot. You’re not here to fight. So chill.

 

I’ve been giving you the benefit of the doubt that you’re not a troll who delights in winding people up, but sadly you have given nothing back but toxic negativity and provocation.

 

We’re now getting private messages about the sad turn this thread is taking, so I’ve decided that it’s time for you to drop the art discussion and contribute something else to the discussion. That is a direct command, sailor. 

[Ramen]

Sure, I think the music sounds great, and I hope the writing is still as good as it used to be!

I don't respond to commands though, so I will just wish you a nice Friday as well

[BaronGrackle]

Every instance of the word "sailor" must be heard in Anemone's voice.

[Toymafia88]

1 hour ago, Thrik said:

We’re now getting private messages about the sad turn this thread is taking, so I’ve decided that it’s time for you to drop the art discussion and contribute something else to the discussion. That is a direct command, sailor. 

I feel responsible for kick-starting this with my comment about people hating on the game in other forums. 

 

Very sorry for any drama I caused.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Toymafia88

[Remi]

ReMI then! Release date:

 

Seeing Devolver has a showcase in September I’m wagering the release date will be… Talk Like a Pirate Day. Original, I know.
 

I’ll also double down on a demo the week before.

 

We’re talking cold hard cash on this.