Return to Monkey Island

[Trapezzoid]

I'm guessing the rationale behind the art is to evoke Mary Blair and midcentury Disney. Monkey Island was always inspired by Pirates of the Caribbean, and the film art of that era is a good cousin to that aesthetic.

 

My main worry is that they'll lose the feeling that you could step into the backgrounds and explore. Skewed perspectives can look cool, but moving Guybrush around on a semi-realistic depth field with winding paths is satisfying and makes the game world feel real.

 

As much as PotC gets cited, I'd bet Ron was a fan of Tom Sawyer Island. A whole piratey island to explore with cave passages, fun as hell! The first two MI games often felt like a simulation of this. I really, really hope the art and map-design of the new game are able to scratch that itch.

 

[Marius]

Wow, that’s a beautiful map!

[Thrik]

3 hours ago, ATMcashpoint said:

It was included in MI2 at the time of the rolling demo, according to demo datafiles. However, at that point, besides the concrete pit with the treasure chest, there was no ending in place - not even the frame story from the intro. So the underground tunnels from the ending hadn't been implemented yet. Once those were added, the giant underground tunnel room beneath Phatt Island might have been an easy and logical cut for disk space reasons.

 

(This also raises the question of whether waiting at the acid pit in MI2 was originally a genuine "kill Guybrush" Easter Egg like drowning in MI1, before the frame story was added and Guybrush naturally couldn't die during it.)

I see. So it could just be for space reasons. It’s not just me though, right? That art looks noticeably more warped and wacky than basically anything else in MI2? It really wouldn’t have surprised me if you’d said it was concept art for DOTT.

 

In particular it reminds me of this scene, thanks to the obvious parallel that is the pipes. 😄

[Jake]

53 minutes ago, Trapezzoid said:

As much as PotC gets cited, I'd bet Ron was a fan of Tom Sawyer Island. A whole piratey island to explore with cave passages, fun as hell! The first two MI games often felt like a simulation of this. I really, really hope the art and map-design of the new game are able to scratch that itch.

 

 

Not to sidetrack too far or anything, but when they lightly re-themed the island around POTC, they gave out new maps inspired by this one, and I've had it up on my wall since visiting.

 

 

In my mind, Monkey Island has always felt like its set in that whole corner of Disneyland. Not just Pirates of the Caribbean, but as you said Tom Sawyer's Island, and also The Haunted Mansion, the Swiss Family Robinson Treehouse, New Orleans Square, the Jungle Cruise and Adventureland as a whole, even the sailing ship Columbia docks right there. It's all visible from right outside the entrance to Pirates. It's also easily my favorite part of the park, and the part that I think is the most evocative and imagination-stirring in general.

[KestrelPi]

It wouldn't surprise me considering that Knights and Bikes is quite fascinated with maps, too, if a little of that bled into the ideas behind the art.

[ThunderPeel2001]

3 hours ago, SurplusGamer said:

I've seen people tweeting mean things at Rex, as well as Ron and Dave, and I hope that everyone here is going to be better than that.

 

I've sent them all several death threats, but I assume they know I was joking. (Seriously, why would people Tweet mean things? Aggressively entitled fans are the worst.)

 

3 hours ago, Jake said:

It’s clear we’ve been fed very little when very very hungry

 

Very aptly put. We're agonising over minuscule morsels like ravenous beggars. Microscopically inspecting every breadcrumb. I hope they give us something more substantial soon.

[ThunderPeel2001]

On 4/23/2022 at 4:43 PM, Jake said:

I think it’s a safe bet that “Monkey 3,” had that been made right after 2 instead of DOTT, would have pushed into a more stylized space, but what exactly that space is can never be known. It is clear from everything they did afterwards, the LucasArts art department was interested in pushing the limits into more stylized spaces. They also seemed uninterested in repeating themselves. It’s unlikely that Monkey 3 would have tried to look like a Chuck Jones cartoon, but it’s very unlikely it would have looked like “more Monkey Island 2.” Everything they did afterwards pushed for more illustrative and bigger characters for example. (Except The Dig but that doesn’t count because it started production before all of its contemporaries.) Again that doesn’t mean a Monkey 3 definitely would have shared that, but the odds are decent it would have at least been explored. 

 

This image was recovered as part of the VGHF dive into the Monkey Island 1 and 2 source, and nobody was able to divine what it means or what it’s from so please don’t draw conclusions. It’s NOT from any Monkey 3 project. Its impossible to say what it was for beyond a quick style exercise. It was actually found in the source files for Monkey 1, and the reason for that is hard to know (it could have just been a filing mistake, or not?) but it shows that even during production of Monkey Island 1 and 2, the artists were starting to explore pushing into more stylized looks. It really does feel like once scanning paintings was added to their repertoire, the sky was the limit on style exploration.

 

 

 

Where did this image come from? It's not on the VGHF website?

 

 

[Udvarnoky]

Did you check the stream? A lot more was shown there beyond the stuff Frank curated for his (excellent) companion article.

[KestrelPi]

7 minutes ago, Udvarnoky said:

Did you check the stream? A lot more was shown there beyond the stuff Frank curated for his (excellent) companion article.

 

Would you mind dropping a link? I can't seem to find what you're referring to

[Udvarnoky]

You're in for a treat.

 

 

[Zaxx]

5 hours?? Holy god, that really is an evening with Ron Gilbert.

[Jake]

1 hour ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Where did this image come from? It's not on the VGHF website?

It came from when the excavating was happening but wasn’t released. This is New Content exclusive to this thread. 

[ThunderPeel2001]

5 minutes ago, Jake said:

It came from when the excavating was happening but wasn’t released. This is New Content exclusive to this thread. 

 

Seriously...? That's mind blowing! How did you get exposed to this? Are you connected with the VGHF? Was there anything else not released?

 

It seems to be that this was them comparing art styles: The left was drawn directly, and the right was scanned in. A proof of concept perhaps. Wonderfully interesting!

Edited April 24, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[elTee]

24 minutes ago, Udvarnoky said:

You're in for a treat.

 

 

 

For anyone who hasn't seen this, I can't recommend it highly enough. Best $10 I've spent on the internet in living memory! What a brilliant evening it was.

[Jake]

10 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Seriously...? That's mind blowing! How did you get exposed to this?

I am not affiliated but helped capture some of the content that was in the stream, and this is one that didn’t make the cut. There isn’t a huge trove of this stuff unfortunately, but that one is really notable and this seemed like a good time to share it. 

[ThunderPeel2001]

10 minutes ago, elTee said:

 

For anyone who hasn't seen this, I can't recommend it highly enough. Best $10 I've spent on the internet in living memory! What a brilliant evening it was.

 

It was fantastic. I got two questions answered, too, which was just icing on top of an already very icing covered cake.

[KestrelPi]

Oh I get it now. I have seen this, but only very recently. Yes, it's very worth a look, there's a lot of really cool stuff in there.

[KestrelPi]

Changing the subject, slightly...

 

Something I always used to think was really cool was how the theme to MI2 was really done in a different style to the first game. The sound of the original theme was really 'classic' of course, and it feels like since MI2 all the versions of the theme have really followed that template, albeit with some tweaks to the arrangement, but it always disappointed me that we never really heard a version of the theme that really had a very different feel to it.

 

It was even more disappointing that EMI's theme was basically just CMI's and that (mainly because of technical constraints), the Tales version ended up sounding so limp compared with the previous versions.

 

So my question is, are you hoping for a theme in a new style?

 

A couple of weeks ago I made a version imagining how I might do a MI theme in a different feel to 1 and 2, and came up with this. Yeah, I know, shameless self promotion but this question has genuinely been on my mind so much that I made a Monkey Island Theme Remix for the first time in 30 years.
 

 

[Lagomorph01]

51 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

Changing the subject, slightly...

 

Something I always used to think was really cool was how the theme to MI2 was really done in a different style to the first game. The sound of the original theme was really 'classic' of course, and it feels like since MI2 all the versions of the theme have really followed that template, albeit with some tweaks to the arrangement, but it always disappointed me that we never really heard a version of the theme that really had a very different feel to it.

 

It was even more disappointing that EMI's theme was basically just CMI's and that (mainly because of technical constraints), the Tales version ended up sounding so limp compared with the previous versions.

 

So my question is, are you hoping for a theme in a new style?

 

A couple of weeks ago I made a version imagining how I might do a MI theme in a different feel to 1 and 2, and came up with this. Yeah, I know, shameless self promotion but this question has genuinely been on my mind so much that I made a Monkey Island Theme Remix for the first time in 30 years.
 

I like your remix, it has a really laid back reggae feel to it! Nice work!

 

I'd love a new version of the Monkey Island theme! The Curse rendition really worked back then, because at the time it was like 'whoa, this is the original theme, but this time we're really kicking it up a notch with real instruments' and that was really impressive for the time. It's too bad that every rendition since chose to follow that same pattern.

 

If Return to Monkey Island came up with a really unique version of the original theme, it means that every Ron Gilbert created Monkey Island game would have it's own theme music, and I just love that idea! Let's hope they implement it!

 

It would be great if they could incorporate the carnival theme in it, like they did with LeChuck's theme at the end of LeChuck's Revenge. Not too much though, because bringing to many carnival instruments to it kinda cheapens the feel. Just enough to make it relevant to the story. Like the little 'intermissions' with the Monkeys in the theme of MI2.

[AndywinXp]

1 hour ago, KestrelPi said:

So my question is, are you hoping for a theme in a new style?

 

I am literally hoping for the COMI rendition, to be elected as the official theme 😛

 

That, or anything which diligently uses live performers and (as a drummer I'm finnicky about this) a well written rhythmic section. Which means, no drum parts which are clearly not written by drummers 😛 (looking at you, MI1, 2 and 5)

Edited April 25, 2022 by AndywinXp

[KestrelPi]

26 minutes ago, AndywinXp said:

 

I am literally hoping for the COMI rendition, to be elected as the official theme 😛

 

Oh goodness, I hope not. I was unimaginably disappointed when I heard it again in EMI, hearing what they've done with the theme is one of the highlights of a new Monkey Island to me. The fresher the sound the better, as long as it maintains some of the spirit of the original.

Edited April 25, 2022 by KestrelPi

[TimeGentleman]

I really enjoy how you've added reggae and old-time spooky vibes to your cover, they're a really nice reflection of the series and make it feel like a version you might hear in the Voodoo Lady's room.

 

To tie in with Chuckie's DETH shirt at the end of MI2, I'd like a death metal version this time round.

Edited April 25, 2022 by TimeGentleman

[MurraySchull]

1 hour ago, KestrelPi said:

Oh goodness, I hope not. I was unimaginably disappointed when I heard it again in EMI, hearing what they've done with the theme is one of the highlights of a new Monkey Island to me. The fresher the sound the better, as long as it maintains some of the spirit of the original.

Exactly. Curse’s opening is definitely the best version of the main theme, but a new version every game is always something to look forward to. To be honest, those Escape opening credits are so p**s poor all around, from the recycling of the main theme, to the camera angles, to the PowerPoint transitions to the zooming in on the bottom left corner of the letter “M” on “Mike Stemmle” at the end. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they had 1 day to go before launch and realised they’d forgotten to make an intro!

 

The soundtrack is definitely one of the main reasons to be excited for the game. It’s the first time since Escape that the trio of Land, McConnell and Bajakian will be together, and we’re more than likely going to be getting a soundtrack comparable to the production values and quality of Curse/Escape. Even if you dislike Escape (which I personally never have) the soundtrack is still top tier.

 

It also hit me recently that this is the first new Herman dialogue we’ll have gotten since Escape (not counting the SE’s since that dialogue was written for the original games) and he didn’t appear in Tales. Very curious how they’re going to navigate Escape/Tales in this story. CMI is still canon according to Ron, but the other two games weren’t specified.

[elTee]

54 minutes ago, TimeGentleman said:

To tie in with Chuckie's DETH shirt at the end of MI2, I'd like a death metal version this time round.

 

This may be as close as we'll get... 

[Jake]

4 minutes ago, fentongames said:

CMI is still canon according to Ron, but the other two games weren’t specified.

I think in interviews they’ve since clarified this to include all the games. From the Adventure Gamers interview: 

 

Like Murray, can we expect to see nods to Escape from Monkey Island and Tales of Monkey Island in this game?

Ron: We very purposefully don’t do anything to invalidate any of the canon that’s happened in those games. We’re not saying any of those things didn’t happen, we don’t talk down to them at all. We embrace a lot of the things we liked in those games. So we were very, very careful about that. I remember some of those conversations Dave and I had, there was this kind of tendency to just throw everything out, let’s just start over. But the thing we finally came around to is, these are very beloved games. We didn’t make them, but there are still a lot of good things in those games, and we wanted to embrace those, not whisk them away.

Dave: We talked all about canon and these other games, and the fact that we liked them, and the audience liked them, and so we made it our point of philosophy to adhere to canon wherever possible, but with two caveats. One of which is, it’s actually kind of hard to keep track of everything that’s canon, and some of these other games don’t even agree with each other. So a little bit of paradox is necessary and probably healthy for us as creators and as human beings. And the other caveat is that too much canon can get in the way of the story you’re trying to tell, so we decided that we would adhere to canon unless it was going to get in the way, and we would ignore some minor details if we needed to.

Ron: Which I think the other games did as well. You have to be a little flexible in that stuff.

 

You keep it where it’s convenient, and you ignore it where it’s convenient.

Ron: Yeah, you don’t want to create paradoxes, you don’t want to do things that are so bad that people are like, “What the heck?” But I think the little things, you just have to let the story be what the story is.

Dave: Canon’s kind of a modern idea, isn’t it? If you think about the old myths and things, nothing ever made sense from one story to the next in those. I blame comic books for our slavish adherence to canon.