Which Monkey Island has the smallest number of monkeys?

[Niemandswasser]

  On 9/1/2022 at 1:50 AM, Remi said:

No way, it moves. 

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I'd always interpreted that being because it was part of the mechanism Smirk puppeteered while operating the machine, but yeah, looking at it in motion now that seems unlikely.

[Jake]

I love this thread. 

[Marius]

@Vainamoinen : „Oh, you love Monkey Island? Name all the Monkeys.“

Mojo Community: 

 

[madmardi]

  On 9/1/2022 at 1:50 AM, Remi said:

No way, it moves. 

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So does the machine.

  On 9/1/2022 at 1:59 AM, Niemandswasser said:

I'd always interpreted that being because it was part of the mechanism Smirk puppeteered while operating the machine, but yeah, looking at it in motion now that seems unlikely.

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Yea, I still think it's a possibility.

[OzzieMonkey]

I have failed myself and brought shame to the Mojo community...I thought it was MI1 too.

[Vainamoinen]

  On 8/31/2022 at 8:14 PM, ThunderPeel2001 said:

I hope Vainamoinen has a definitive answer to all this!

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In Guybrush's immortal words: Mmmmmmmmmno.

 

But hot damn you guys are good! So we're up to seven in TSoMI now?! I thought it was four!

 

Come on, you can find me some more Monkeys in LeChuck's Revenge.

 

I love how nobody votes for Escape because of the mass monkey scene. 🙈

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Vainamoinen

[Marius]

This thread feels like a sequel to the Alley one.

[Wally B.]

We are counting only the monkeys you can see right? Because technically there are thousands of monkeys you can't see in all of the games, except (maybe) monkey 2, because you go to Dinky Island and not Monkey Island, even though in Curse it is retconned to be part of Monkey Island, and that a vast amount of Monkeys actually do live there. So if we're going by that logic, technically Tales is the one with less monkeys, even though there are a bunch of monkeys in LeChuck's ship, I doubt they are even close as the entire monkey population of Dinky Island

 

But yeah, I guess Monkey Island 2 only had Jojo and those two monkeys on screen, so I voted for that 

 

  On 9/1/2022 at 7:41 AM, Marius said:

This thread feels like a sequel to the Alley one.

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It totally is

[Vainamoinen]

  On 9/1/2022 at 8:25 AM, Wally B. said:

We are counting only the monkeys you can see right? Because technically there are thousands of monkeys you can't see in all of the games, except (maybe) monkey 2, because you go to Dinky Island and not Monkey Island, even though in Curse it is retconned to be part of Monkey Island, and that a vast amount of Monkeys actually do live there. So if we're going by that logic, technically Tales is the one with less monkeys, even though there are a bunch of monkeys in LeChuck's ship, I doubt they are even close as the entire monkey population of Dinky Island

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We count every live monkey head that's shown in the respective game. If you can't see it, it doesn't count.

 

I think Tales still has a decent shot at the throne, but that's a long, five part game. There's one monkey being mishandled by LeChuck in the opening scene and one that Guybrush uses to escape the Marquis (I think that's not the same monkey). But I also remember a scene later in the game when LeChuck and Elaine bring back those Monkeys of Montevideo, and they're showing some more monkeys there, I think. Anybody with a screenshot or youtube link?

 

 

[Wally B.]

  On 9/1/2022 at 8:42 AM, Vainamoinen said:

think Tales still has a decent shot at the throne, but that's a long, five part game.

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Tales has 4 or 5 hypnotized monkeys in the last chapter, so that's already more than monkey Island 2, not even counting the monkeys in the other chapters

[Lagomorph01]

What if… the monkeys in the MI2 intro are actually a whole bunch of monkeys?! Every time they go off screen another pair emerges! 🤯

[BaronGrackle]

  On 9/1/2022 at 8:42 AM, Vainamoinen said:

I think Tales still has a decent shot at the throne, but that's a long, five part game.

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The throne? The MOST? That has to be Escape. Escape has the Monkey Kombat section, with arguably infinite monkeys appearing on the map and in fights.

 

Close to that is Curse. Because during LeChuck's monologue, don't you see monkeys wander on and off screen infinitely? So Escape wins with a big infinite monkeys, and Curse is second with a low infinite monkeys.

[BillyCheers]

  On 9/1/2022 at 9:42 AM, Lagomorph01 said:

What if… the monkeys in the MI2 intro are actually a whole bunch of monkeys?! Every time they go off screen another pair emerges! 🤯

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… or hundreds of monkeys in two rows that just dance in perfect sync? 🤔

[Rum Rogers]

Well I voted MI1 and was pretty confident about it. I'm ashamed.

[BaronGrackle]

Let's look at Tales. Our money shot is the cutscene in Chapter 3, depicting Elaine and LeChuck delivering monkeys. ::cracks knuckles::

Image A

 

One, two, three.

 

LeChuck responds: "Dozens. Seven more islands and one peninsula should suffice."

 

Note that this indicate a minimum of 24 monkeys left, possibly more. But we're only counting on screen appearances. Let's continue.

 

Image B

 

Four.

 

Image C

 

Five. This guy fires the cannon and is thrown backwards, overboard.

 

Image D

 

Six, seven.

Image E

 

Eight.

 

Elaine gets poxxed and responds: "The chimps can roast on an open flame for all I care!" Reaction shots:

Image F

 

Nine, ten. (Don't miss the hand beneath the grating!)

Image G

 

Eleven, twelve.

Image H

 

Thirteen, fourteen.

Image I

 

Fifteen.

 

We then get a shot of LeChuck and Elaine facing the sea, surrounded by monkeys. HOWEVER! Several of these monkeys are suggested to be the same as before. The one on LeChuck's hat (from Image B), the two with swords (from Image D) and the one climbing back on board (from Image C) are most likely monkeys seen earlier. Here's the shot:

Images J and K:

 

I don't think we can count these as brand new monkeys. But we can compare the count!

 

The scenes leading up to this show about 15 monkeys total, if none of them were repeated. The final scene shows the group together with... 11 monkeys total. So we have a discrepancy. Let's reconcile them.

 

Out of the 15, there are 3 under a grate. They would therefore not be on deck in the final scene.

With the new on-deck comparison being 12 seen throughout versus 11 seen in the final shot, I now infer that 11 is the correct on-deck number, and that one of the monkeys has been repeated between Images A, E, F, G, and I.

 

11 monkeys seen above deck, and 3 monkeys seen below. This totals 14 monkeys depicted in the cutscene.

 

Add Jacques the monkey for a conservative estimate of FIFTEEN MONKEYS MINIMUM DEPICTED ONSCREEN during Tales. Or TWELVE MONKEYS, if we are only counting monkey HEADS and exclude the ones in the hold.

 

The number gets larger if you treat the ceremony monkey in Chapter 1 and the portal beacon monkeys in Chapter 5 as separate monkeys, which is entirely possible because Elaine and LeChuck had already been dropping off monkeys before this cutscene began.

 

Revenge: 3-5 monkeys

*Secret: 4-5 monkeys (6-7 monkey heads)

Tales: ~15 monkeys (~12 monkey heads)

Curse: Infinite-low monkeys

Escape: Infinite-high monkeys
 

 

*it was pointed out to me on a discord that the MI1 monkey on Monkey Island is different than the similar monkey in the wedding dress, because one has a thicker tail. The hat monkey at Smirk's and the dress may or may not be the same.

 

EDIT: For Curse, if someone wants to assume the monkey(s) in LeChuck's monologue is a single monkey that goes on and offscreen, you could do a count from the others seen on Plunder Island I suppose!

Edited September 1, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[JacquesSparkyTail]

quick but relevant doodle

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by JacquesSparkyTail

[Vainamoinen]

  On 9/1/2022 at 1:29 PM, BaronGrackle said:

Let's look at Tales. Our money shot is the cutscene in Chapter 3, depicting Elaine and LeChuck delivering monkeys. ::cracks knuckles::

 

Tales: ~15 monkeys (~12 monkey heads)

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OBJECTION!

 

LeChuck means "dozens of islands", not dozens of monkeys.

 

The monkeys on deck are identical in appearance, so they could be the same monkeys.

 

Out of goodwill, we will assume that Telltale is showing all of the total THIRTEEN monkeys of Montevideo at least once.

 

Plus Jaques makes 14.

 

Objections to that?

[neoncolor8]

  On 9/1/2022 at 8:25 AM, Wally B. said:

We are counting only the monkeys you can see right? Because technically there are thousands of monkeys you can't see in all of the games, except (maybe) monkey 2, because you go to Dinky Island and not Monkey Island, even though in Curse it is retconned to be part of Monkey Island, and that a vast amount of Monkeys actually do live there. So if we're going by that logic, technically Tales is the one with less monkeys, even though there are a bunch of monkeys in LeChuck's ship, I doubt they are even close as the entire monkey population of Dinky Island

 

But yeah, I guess Monkey Island 2 only had Jojo and those two monkeys on screen, so I voted for that 

 

It totally is

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If we would count every monkey that we can't see, curse would have the most:

 

'Hordes of ruthlessly-trained monkeys are hidden away deep within the bowels of the park ... bound to immense machines of destruction and family entertainment.'

-Lechuck 

(Big Whoop Amusement Park scene at the end of Curse)

 

[Remi]

For those who for some uncouth reason claims Smirk's monkey isn't real, I give you...

 

 

 

 

It's the same monkey. Same. Monkey.

 

[BaronGrackle]

  On 9/1/2022 at 2:12 PM, Vainamoinen said:

 

OBJECTION!

 

LeChuck means "dozens of islands", not dozens of monkeys.

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It is unrelated to the onscreen count (otherwise MI1 would presumably have a lot more monkeys on the island, offscreen), but the dialogue exchange is

 

Elaine: "How many more of these filthy creatures do we need to unload before we can meet up with Guybrush?"

 

LeChuck: "Dozens. Seven more islands and one peninsula should suffice."

 

  On 9/1/2022 at 2:12 PM, Vainamoinen said:

The monkeys on deck are identical in appearance, so they could be the same monkeys.

 

Out of goodwill, we will assume that Telltale is showing all of the total THIRTEEN monkeys of Montevideo at least once.

 

Plus Jaques makes 14.

 

Objections to that?

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My count is not perfect. 😆 It's based on Images J and K depicting 11 monkeys all at once, added to Image F (1 monkey arm) and Image H (2 monkey arms). My total being 11 above deck, 3 below deck, plus 1 for Jacques at 15 total.

 

Does your count of 13 (minus Jacques) infer that there are only two monkey arms seen from the grate, and not three?

 

EDIT:

 

  On 9/1/2022 at 2:30 PM, neoncolor8 said:

 

If we would count every monkey that we can't see, curse would have the most:

 

'Hordes of ruthlessly-trained monkeys are hidden away deep within the bowels of the park ... bound to immense machines of destruction and family entertainment.'

-Lechuck 

(Big Whoop Amusement Park scene at the end of Curse)

 

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I argue Escape surpasses it.
 

Jojo, Jr. states monkeys have been gathering to Monkey Island from the entire Caribbean. This would presumably include every monkey previously seen at Big Whoop, but also monkeys migrated from other islands like Timmy and the prosthetics store monkey from Lucre.

Edited September 1, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[Jake]

We’re ostensibly just counting unique living monkey heads visible on screen though!

 

If the count was “the number referenced in the story,” then Escape probably would have it. And Secret’s count would go way up because of the ship crewed with monkeys. 

[Vainamoinen]

  On 9/1/2022 at 2:35 PM, Remi said:

For those who for some uncouth reason claims Smirk's monkey isn't real, I give you...

 

 

 

 

It's the same monkey. Same. Monkey.

 

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I think we have probable cause to knock the TSoMI count back to 5.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Vainamoinen

[JacquesSparkyTail]

  On 9/1/2022 at 2:12 PM, Vainamoinen said:

 

OBJECTION!

 

LeChuck means "dozens of islands", not dozens of monkeys.

 

The monkeys on deck are identical in appearance, so they could be the same monkeys.

 

Out of goodwill, we will assume that Telltale is showing all of the total THIRTEEN monkeys of Montevideo at least once.

 

Plus Jaques makes 14.

 

Objections to that?

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Yes i object. You forgot the monkeys outside the portals in episode 5. That should bring the total to 19 i think. 

[BaronGrackle]

  On 9/1/2022 at 2:50 PM, Jake said:

We’re ostensibly just counting unique living monkey heads visible on screen though!

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If the monkey arms don't count, then the monkey HEADS seen in Tales are a minimum of 11, plus Jacques for 12 total!

Edited September 1, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[Remi]

  On 9/1/2022 at 2:59 PM, Vainamoinen said:

 

 

I think we have probable cause to knock the TSoMI count back to 5.

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The black one wears a hat so it's obviously the same as Smirk's, but the gray one could be a different one. Elaine ostensibly could have smuggled the Monkey Island one onto the ship -- or it could be the same type of monkey picked up elsewhere.