Should Kavar's Corner take a month long break?

[Achilles]

Shut down a thread that many people enjoy and use responsibly simply because a handful of people can't conduct themselves responsibly? It hardly seems fair.

 

I understand the aversion to wanting to hold people accountable due to the perceived amount of "legwork" required, however I think the alternative currently on the table seems excessive.

[Arcesious]

I love debating... It exercises my brain... That and right about now, things are getting interesting due to the election...

[tk102]

If this forum is designed for discussion on politics (as is stated in the rules, along with a variety of other topics), shutting it down because people are talking about politics seems a little... off.

The problem isn't that people are talking about politics, it's that the tone has become less than civil lately and there's been more personal jabs than can easily be moderated.

Perhaps a little more moderation is required. I think that would solve a lot of the current issues.

Easier said than done. Seems everybody has a protest or requests an appeal, or lodges a formal complaint to every moderated action taken.

 

No. If people don't want to debate they shouldn't come here

Agreed! Wait, can we staff members use that too or do we still have to play referee?

 

I see no purpose to this. It won't change anything.

I think you're probably right, Corinthian.

 

But it is brother and sister love kind of snippiness.

:\

Thinking back to something a new moderator wrote recently. To which I replied. To which he assured me. Now wonder is his original statement was true.

I'm sure J7 spoke for most of the staff.

 

To be honest, I couldn't think of such an idea coming from you, good teekay. I believed you to be truly just and fair and an upholder of liberty and freedom and pants. The locking of this thread over merely such an important would be... unfair.

Just to be clear I wasn't talking about locking a thread, but the entire forum.

 

EDIT: and the topic poll is loaded, misleading, and frankly, condescending. We have some great discussion going on here, and taking a break does not always cause people to cool, often they'll come back hotter than ever. And the context in which "arguing" is being used I find somewhat offensive as it refers to the bad kind of arguing, and doesn't take into account the good kind of argumentation that we do often participate in here.

Well that was the whole point of posting it. If you were a moderator of the forums, I suspect you'd see the good/bad posts in different proportions. I am a bit condescending towards this forum. It has brought out the worst behavior and drama between members and staff alike. As a moderator or admin, you can either act (and get blamed for bias or censorship) or not act (and allow ad hominem attacks to become the norm). But regardless of your opinion of this poll, you reached the conclusion I was hoping for:

That is why I think the onus of "saving" Kavar's is on it's regulars, to start topics that will move away from the political feuding that is ravaging the forum at the moment. If we can talk about something else, I think we can solve a lot of the political discontent we're seeing.

Quite right, well said.

I'd say to close the thread only if people continue with the bad election threads/posts. If we really want to close Kavar's until the election is over, we should probably go to Jonathan7, he is the moddie for Kavar's.

He's gone this week.

 

Shut down a thread that many people enjoy and use responsibly simply because a handful of people can't conduct themselves responsibly? It hardly seems fair.

 

I understand the aversion to wanting to hold people accountable due to the perceived amount of "legwork" required, however I think the alternative currently on the table seems excessive.

That's true. It sucks that fairness requires patience and compromise and I'm short on both.

 

I think hear tragic music...

 

 

 

O the sad life of moderators!

O the tragedy of administrators!

Why do they do it for free?

 

I'm going to go back to my comfortable apathy now.

[Web Rider]

Well that was the whole point of posting it. If you were a moderator of the forums, I suspect you'd see the good/bad posts in different proportions. I am a bit condescending towards this forum.

 

And where I moderate I'm an iron-fisted dictator. No I am not joking, I will publicly execute a member as fast as I will annihilate intolerance and flames. Fortunately, I don't have to do it very often because the forum I admin on is generally well behaved. Or, at least, they learn quickly.

 

I could never moderate a politics forum, I'm far too political minded, people probably would complain about my tactics being too harsh too.

[Tommycat]

Just to clarify my earlier, I don't want Kavars closed. I just feel that if you have to close it for a month to cool things off, you'd probably be best eliminating political discussion altogether.

[Prime]

Just to clarify my earlier, I don't want Kavars closed. I just feel that if you have to close it for a month to cool things off, you'd probably be best eliminating political discussion altogether.

I like this idea!

 

Pity the yes vote is so low. Probably because all you ethnic right wing extremists are voting no.

[Yar-El]

Seems to this observer that everyone participating in Kavar's Corner debates these days is getting pretty wound up and snippity at each other. I wonder if wouldn't be a bad idea to close the forum for about a month until the U.S. election is over and (hopefully) the economic situation is a bit more stable. What do you think?

It has been tense in here. Most of the threads are about the election and economy. I had a thread about religion, but I had to place it in the Senate Chambers. Maybe a time out would get everyone to see other more positive news. Too much negative thinking sometimes overshadows the positive. Plus, this is a game site forums after all.

 

If we cannot agree on this one simple issue, the stress level must be ready to burst.

[SD Nihil]

It should be closed after the election is over. Right now we still need to get sources, info, good comon sense talk across.

 

But afterwards once the election season is over this Kavar's should be closed for good. If people are un willing to change their minds or cannot change others then what's the point other than a debate that changes neither side's mind anyway. In the end it's just a waste of time.

 

Now if people were willing to change their minds then yes this forum in my opinion would be productive. But I've been getting messages from people saying they feel their is no point in this forum to continue to talk to those who don't read, listen, or change their minds. They've been talking about leaving the forum.

 

In my opinion that's the oposite of what we want here. We want more to come to this forum and to have more activity. If the forum is counter productive then that's not good for the entire forum as a whole.

 

There have been threads closed, cursing, flaming, infractions, complaints, and people thinking about leaving. And in my opinion if the differing opinion majority of them feels they just want to leave then that does not help for a debate when their is little to no differing side.

 

I think it's also appropriate to say here I appologize if I offended any of you during my debating. I don't want to argue about this. This is just what I feel. I've put in my vote.

[Astor]

It's true that people can get a little... heated during a debate, but I don't think that closing Kavar's for either a short time or permanently is the answer.

 

While things can sometimes get a tad nasty, the overall feeling I get from everybody is that they enjoy a good debate. I've learned a hell of a lot from my few months haunting Kavar's, and it's done wonders for my view of the world at large.

 

Once the US elections are over, i'm sure the current mood will blow over.

 

So, in short, I don't want to see Kavar's closed.

[SW01]

^

 

Agreed. Kavar's is one of the main reasons I come here now - I've seen a lot of great friendly discussions, and like Astor have learned a good deal from the threads.

 

It'd be a shame to see it go down at all, really.

[Yar-El]

It should be closed after the election is over. Right now we still need to get sources, info, good comon sense talk across.

 

But afterwards once the election season is over this Kavar's should be closed for good. If people are un willing to change their minds or cannot change others then what's the point other than a debate that changes neither side's mind anyway. In the end it's just a waste of time.

That is a good reason why the chief tk102 should close Kavar's. Leaving the forums open at this point is like poking a dead cow. People have allready made up their minds, and the only thing left is my guy is better than yours type of arguments. We are one step short of opening bashing threads.

[Inyri]

Or it might explain why this is considered a debate forum and not an indoctrination forum.

 

And I don't think you guys are qualified to speak for everyone and say that no one will ever change their mind on anything or consider another poster's points. It happens a lot, actually.

[Astor]

That is a good reason why the chief tk102 should close Kavar's. Leaving the forums open at this point is like poking a dead cow. People have allready made up their minds, and the only thing left is my guy is better than yours type of arguments.

 

Statements like that aren't helping .

 

Change needs to come from both sides - I enter every debate with an open mind, and I keep my mind open to ALL possibilities. No one 'side', if it really has to come down to such a thing is innocent in this, and you can't possibly expect people to agree all the time in such discussions.

 

The biggest problem is people not realising when to stop poking the cow.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

No. How much time people need to cool off, anyway? Was it a discussion on, for example, an instant messenger, where every reply is almost immediate then I would understand that people must take a breath and rethink their arguments (and attitude) over. This being a forum where you can read, re-read and chose NOT to post a reply to any message and topic, I don't see the usefulness of that shutting down measure.

 

At any rate, people are doing what they were supposed to do here, aren't they? Seriously discussing. If the US elections and the economical crisis prove to be too much for the staff to handle (), close the related topics, not the entire forum.

[Litofsky]

That is a good reason why the chief tk102 should close Kavar's. Leaving the forums open at this point is like poking a dead cow. People have allready made up their minds, and the only thing left is my guy is better than yours type of arguments. We are one step short of opening bashing threads.

 

I respectfully disagree. Topics in Kavar's have helped me attain a better understanding of the world today, as well as educate me on some previously-unknown material. Losing Kavar's Corner would be like losing the cornerstone of the KotOR forums, in my opinion.

[Darth333]

What do you think?

What about we just ban everyone instead of closing the forum? Those who want to gather more info about the US elections would then have more time to do so...

[Inyri]

Dammit I knew I shouldn't have started posting here.

[Yar-El]

Statements like that aren't helping .

 

Change needs to come from both sides - I enter every debate with an open mind, and I keep my mind open to ALL possibilities. No one 'side', if it really has to come down to such a thing is innocent in this, and you can't possibly expect people to agree all the time in such discussions.

 

The biggest problem is people not realising when to stop poking the cow.

Very true. Change starts with the individual; however, people are mostly fighting over whose candidate has the best policy. It went from debate to bashing the candidates. We are in a deadlock.

[mimartin]

If people are unwilling to change their minds or cannot change others then what's the point other than a debate that changes neither side's mind anyway. In the end it's just a waste of time.[/Quote] With all respect, I disagree entirely with this statement. I don’t come to Kavar to change anyone’s mind on any topic. I’m also not here for anyone to change my mind or for in-depth knowledge on any issue. I am perfectly capable of doing my own research. I am not saying that some of my beliefs have not been modified since I’ve been coming here, I am saying this is not my first source of knowledge.

 

I’m here to read about other people’s views. Listening to others promotes understanding. At one time I had some pretty far-out preconceptions about atheist. I had never meet or talked to one. I’d been taught they were moral less heathens that wanted to force their way of life onto the rest of us. However, after reluctantly getting in several religious debates with Achilles and others, I modified my view. I did not give up my belief, but now I somewhat understand that atheist are no different from the rest of us. Now, the person I talk to most often via PM and my best friend on this forum is one of those heathen atheists.

 

That to me is what this forum is about. I’m not here to conform others to my view; I am here to hopefully receive a better understanding of others views.

 

In my personal opinion, the purpose of Kavar is not to change others minds, but to listen to others view and present your own views in a way that promotes understanding. Attacking others beliefs should be done in a respectful and in a well thought out matter. People take their religion and their politics (and their Star Wars canon) very personally. When you question either, people will interrupt that as a personal attack if it is not done in a very respectful way.

 

We should strive to better moderate ourselves so that Jae, El Sitherino, jonathan7 and others will have an easier job. I know recently I have push my post a little further than I normally do. For this I apologize to all members and staff.

 

What about we just ban everyone instead of closing the forum? Those who want to gather more info about the US elections would then have more time to do so...

Will quickly changing my user name immune me from this? *

 

 

* Edit: no one can escape the power of the dark side - d3

[Q]

Pity the yes vote is so low. Probably because all you ethnic right wing extremists are voting no.

Yeah. All three of 'em.

 

 

Moar drama!

[Totenkopf]

I'd make a counterproposal.................all those disaffected by dissension take off a week or month from KC (I took 3 weeks myself) and everyone else who stays behind for that month agree not to go running for interference when arguments don't go their way. Maybe everyone will then appreciate why the Senate is much less active then Pre-KC (though I frankly woudldn't hold my breath, but that's just the cynic in me) Seriously, though, "banning" politics won't change the contention b/c there are also cultural issues that divide many people here, both knuckle draggers on the left and right.

[igyman]

I agree that closing down the entire forum won't have any effect in the long run. The best solution is the one that requires a lot more work - closer observation by the mods. Also, perhaps it would be good if the thread starter himself/herself could ask all potential participants to keep it civil (a lot of them already do, but it doesn't hurt to say it), because it shows an additional level of seriousness. There's really no point to a debate, if you take it personal and start insulting people who think differently. The key word for Kavar's posters is, I think, self-restraint. Even if you want to call someone names at a certain point, restrain yourselves and try saying "I don't understand your attitude, please explain to me why you think the way you think", it's a lot more civil and you might actually get a good and civil answer.

Just my two cents.

[SD Nihil]

Well the description of this forum says this is a forum for discussion of current issues and todays events. Discussion doesn't sould like debate. So I fell it should have been of more than just a political debate forum to begin with.

 

But when you create a forum and a sub forum has little growth, threads being closed, infractions, complaints, and the differing opinion majority private messages you and says they are thinking about leaving that says to me the sub forum is not good for overall forum growth, popularity, and forum harmony. Think of it from a business stand point. If a section of your company is causing customers to be turned off and talks about going else where that sounds bad to me.

 

And closing it down temporarily won't change the same outcome later of us coming right back to maybe we all need to take a break topics.

 

It's like temporarily recalling g a product and then putting the same product back out. That same recalled product will be the same. And when you think about it, this forum is a product your wanting to sell to more people and promote this product.

 

That's why you have to weigh the pros and cons, and is it fufilling your goals well. If the cons outweigh the gains maybe the product is not from a business standpoint good.

[Inyri]

Well the description of this forum says this is a forum for discussion of current issues and todays events. Discussion doesn't sould like debate. So I fell it should have been of more than just a political debate forum to begin with.

Welcome to Kavar’s Corner' date=' a place for debating serious topics.[/quote']o rly?

[SD Nihil]

Well in the discription area of the forum outside of it it said discussion.

 

But again if the debates are counter productive to forum growth, harmony, and some if not the majority of the differing opinion want to leave then that forum in my opinion has not served the whole forum in helping to promote and grow in member number of people. Also to have debates you have to have those who differ on opinion. You can't have much of a debate if there is few to none to disagree with.

 

So again I feel those who run the forum have in mind the goal of what can we put that is going to grow and promote the forum. If an element is doing the opposite of that does not serve the goal.