Obama bows to Japanese Emperor?

[Ten-96]

Thanks for quoting my signature, however it was in no way relevant.

 

You're welcome. I quoted it because you stated, "This thread sucks." That makes it relevant to this thread. Again, everyone is entitled to their opinions but I was under the impression that we were supposed to respond to threads in a civil manner.

 

As for your argument about being a citizen of the United States, that's fine, so am I. However as the President is our figurehead to speak with other foreign officials he is required by his job to adhere to cultural standards of respect. Should the British Prime Minister not shake our Presidents hand because as a proper British gentlemen he shouldn't touch the hand of a miscreant.

 

The point I'm attempting to make is that bowing in Japan is like waving hello, there's no point in going to talk to someone if you aren't going to talk. You don't ignore your friends after all.

 

The above is a great example of an opinion. I have mine about Obama bowing to a foreign leader and you have yours. I'm sure that there are many things that are customary in other countries that are not practiced here. The same can be said for things we do here. In my opinion, Obama shouldn't have bowed as low as he did.

 

Or perhaps another proverb, "You don't **** in another man's kitchen"

 

The above is relevant, how? I thought the discussion was about the "perceived" (by myself) show of weakness from Obama. Your last comment brings to mind an offense committed against another. However, if that is your opinion of the situation; so be it.

[Astor]

Wait...what?

 

Seriously, what the hell? I am genuinely ****ed off by this.

 

Oh, please. The President has been practically worshipped by other world leaders for the last six months - he returns the favour by being polite and all of a sudden he's giving away your sovereignty? I didn't realise that the President of the United States was equal to no-one, and should never bow before anyone, be it man, woman or beast.

 

We had the opportunity to overreact when the First Lady 'groped' Her Majesty - did we see that as a threat to our Sovereign? Or as a slight against our national pride? No, we didn't, because it was a simple mistake of diplomatic protocol, exactly like this.

 

There is a big difference between respect and reverence for a foreign leader. It just isn't right for the leader of our own country, no matter whether it is Bush or Obama, to revere a foreign leader. Bowing is a very powerful gesture, especially in Asian society.

 

And I don't see reverence there at all - but then again, I don't see my head of state being polite as a threat to national sovereignty, seeing as she does it all the time.

 

Also, 'When in Rome'...

[Bimmerman]

In Japanese culture, bowing is a formal greeting and show of respect. He is simply doing as polite and formal Japanese protocol requires. He may have bowed a bit far but honestly, unless you have a protractor, who knows the correct angle to avoid offending anyone?

 

This is so not a big issue.

 

also, Astor's very much right. I spent the entire year in Germany, and Obama-worship is a bit out of control. How is bowing jeaporidizing....anything? It's not: there is just apparently nothing else for right wingers to get all aflutter about. And I say this as a disgruntled moderate Republican.

 

The Emperor bowed to Obama, so Obama bowed in return. To not do so would be the same as if a foreign dignitary extended their hand in greeting, and Obama did not accept it.

 

Perhaps Obama was confused on which bow to use, perhaps, not being in the habit of doing so, he dipped a little too deeply. In my opinion, it is always better to show MORE respect, than less. Really, I have no doubt that Obama's opposition would have slammed him for not showing enough respect, as much as they have for apparently showing too much.

 

In any case, the Emperor has no power, so any gesture Obama makes to him is irrelevant. He doesn't control his own country let alone America. Short story: it doesn't matter, and nobody should care.

 

Emphasis mine.

[JediAthos]

Have to agree with Bimmerman and Web Rider on this one...no harm no foul. I couldn't believe people were making a big deal out of this. There sooo many more important things going on in the world today.

[Darth333]

The Emperor bowed to Obama, so Obama bowed in return. To not do so would be the same as if a foreign dignitary extended their hand in greeting, and Obama did not accept it.

 

Perhaps Obama was confused on which bow to use, perhaps, not being in the habit of doing so, he dipped a little too deeply. In my opinion, it is always better to show MORE respect, than less. Really, I have no doubt that Obama's opposition would have slammed him for not showing enough respect, as much as they have for apparently showing too much.

 

In any case, the Emperor has no power, so any gesture Obama makes to him is irrelevant. He doesn't control his own country let alone America. Short story: it doesn't matter, and nobody should care.

 

QFE. A bit of respect and humility can't hurt and are most welcome.

 

Democracy and freedom aside, we are a sovereign nation, not a vassal state. Moderating our tone towards other nations is fine, but this crosses the line.

Ever heard of etiquette? There are many countries around the world and there is more than one way to do things. However, when in Rome...Bowing was required there...Whether he bowed a little too low or too high is irrelevant as an intelligent host would understand that the angle, if wrong, was not chosen with ill intent or total disregard, merely foreign clumsiness.

 

There is a big difference between respect and reverence for a foreign leader. It just isn't right for the leader of our own country, no matter whether it is Bush or Obama, to revere a foreign leader. Bowing is a very powerful gesture, especially in Asian society.

How about traveling and living abroad for a while instead of merely repeating what you hear and read in some media? There are more than 200 countries and even more different cultures around the world...there is more than one way of doing things.

 

Why would anyone complain about someone showing some respect towards a host is beyond my comprehension.

[Tommycat]

I love the hypocritical over-reacting hyperbowl of some sections of the Republican party, I still think Obama, could solve third world debt, personally invent a cure to cancer and aids, and bring about Middle East Peace, and he'd still get slated by some sections of the American "Conservative" wing.

 

Funny, I said the same thing just replace Obama with Bush and Conservative with Liberal and we have the exact same quote.

 

Course that's also why I tend to be a bit more understanding. I know how angry it made me that no matter what Bush or the conservatives did, it was WRONG. So I figure, I'll stop criticizing everything Obama does.

 

What I'm saying is... Meh it's a "oops," not a "OMG" for Obama to have bowed too low... Besides, the LAST country to try to tick off the US is Japan... They got a couple of reminders already...

[JediMaster12]

I saw a clip of President Obama's bow on youtube and the hype coming from it...don't the journalists have anything better to gripe on like say the economic situation?

 

President Obama was merely giving respect to the representative leader of a foreign nation, a nation we had once been at war with and now are on friendly relations with. If I am not mistaken, the president would have had cultural advisors with him to give him background on the nation he is visiting. He obviously knew that bowing is a means of greeting and showingrespect. I see no harm in bowing to political/diplomatic allies out of respect for their traditions. The United States seems to long have the image of the bully by the persistent dogging about the American way being the right way and the only way. It seems to me that President Obama is taking a different step and actually acknowledging that there are other kinds of people in the world.

 

Truth be told, the nonsense about this is what it is...nonsense. I would think that journalism would have better things to do than be hypercritical. Every little thing like this makes me think us Americans are nothing but whiners, complaining about every little thing hopwever insignificant.

[Salzella]

good grief, do people really think like that?

[Jae Onasi]

In Japanese culture, bowing is a formal greeting and show of respect. He is simply doing as polite and formal Japanese protocol requires. He may have bowed a bit far but honestly, unless you have a protractor, who knows the correct angle to avoid offending anyone?

Obama's so tall--it may have been difficult for him to gauge the angle compared to the Emperor, too.

 

Better to err bowing too deep than too little, in this case. It certainly makes no difference in the business they had to conduct, so I'm not getting why this is such a big brouhaha. He's just trying to be polite, and I think the intent is as important as the "Official bowing rules for American Presidents".

[Q]

I don't see any problem here. The president was being polite; not subservient.

 

It's basically the whole "When in Rome..." thing.

[GeneralPloKoon]

I really don't understand what the fuss is about...

[JediAthos]

good grief, do people really think like that?

 

Sadly...yes

[El Sitherino]

Obama's so tall--it may have been difficult for him to gauge the angle compared to the Emperor, too..

See I just figured it's because he's the only president we've had in decent enough shape to not upset his joints at the waist, which lead him to being the first to pull off a decent bow.

 

And maybe it's just having not been in geometry for a while, but I'm pretty sure that's not a 90 degree angle...

[Darth Avlectus]

No, it wasn't a full 90 degrees.

 

I daresay, it was a mistake of formality that he probably won't make a second time--I hope.

 

Oh, and please everyone stop making fun of the short height of Japanese people. They're not all "too short to go on rides at disneyland" as Rowdy Roddy Piper seemed to joke.

[Trench]

Why is everyone making such a big deal about this? In Japan pretty much everyone bows when greeting one another. It's a sign of respect, and the lower the bow, the more respect you are trying to show.

Obama bowing to the emperor is no different than a pair of japenese business associates bowing before a meeting.

It's pretty much the japenese version of an American handshake.

[HdVaderII]

I have to agree that there's no reason for anyone to be making a big deal out of this. Bowing is part of Japanese culture to show respect for others. Obama bows. He's being respectful. It's good that we have a leader that can do that.

[Totenkopf]

Obama's so tall--it may have been difficult for him to gauge the angle compared to the Emperor, too.

 

What?!? The "smartest man in the world" can't do a simple spatial geometry problem? Jae, say it ain't so..... It was a protocol faux pax. Focusing on this in the end will be about as productive as going on about flag lapel pins was pre-election.

[Jae Onasi]

I agree it's about as productive as arguing about flag lapel pins.

 

Obama's a good foot taller than the Emperor, so yes, it would be harder for him to judge. I think he figured it out pretty quickly, however, because his bow to the Empress wasn't quite so deep.

 

The question we should be asking is what Obama actually got done while in Japan.

[Tommycat]

Oh, and please everyone stop making fun of the short height of Japanese people. They're not all "too short to go on rides at disneyland" as Rowdy Roddy Piper seemed to joke.

 

Oh they can joke all they want about the height. I don't take offense. Granted I'm a 6' Japanese guy. My mom is 4'11"(shorter now after her back injury) and she was the tallest of her siblings. Lets face it, as a people, Japanese are relatively short.

[Totenkopf]

IIRC, post WW2 the average height of Japanese has increased due to dietary changes.

[Drunkside]

Its basically the same as a polite handshake is for the western world. Why arent you yelling and screaming in horror about handshakes then?

[Ping]

Its basically the same as a polite handshake is for the western world. Why arent you yelling and screaming in horror about handshakes then?

 

Exactly what I'm wondering. Really, it was a polite gesture, nothing more. It seems conservatives these days are trying to criticize the president on eveerything. I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but that's what it seems like to me.

[Tommycat]

Exactly what I'm wondering. Really, it was a polite gesture, nothing more. It seems conservatives these days are trying to criticize the president on eveerything. I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but that's what it seems like to me.

 

Just as the Liberals did with Bush. It's been like that for a long time. Its just that now with more people on the internet sharing their political views, you hear it more. People feel more free to say stuff about politics than they used to. Not to mention because of the internet they can get away with saying stuff that would normally have gotten them a punch to the face. So it's built up a lot of anger between the two major parties. They both look at the other party as the embodiment of evil.

[Ping]

^Very true. Now, I personally don't see either party as "good" or "evil", but when another party seems to be trying to find every excuse to make a jab at the president, regardless of the action, I just find it a bit...irritating.

[mimartin]

Funny, someone seems to forget what Clinton went through. Which is really funny since Carter got blamed for the economy up to 12 years after he was out of office and he was only in office 4 years.