adamqd Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Why? Do you have opinions or do we just have to explain ourselves to you? it seems like we all have the burden of proof, and the Clone wars being Great is accepted wisdom. Ok, the reason I said that is because, although I read the EU and Love Star wars in general, I would rather have less releases but at a higher quality, when you see 14 year old padawans fighting Count Dooku to a standstill, and Gary Stukiller pulling ships out of the sky, and Luke skywalker fighting 12 true Sith at the same time... It kinda dilutes the Magic that got me in to Star Wars in the first place. Too much of a Good thing and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 it seems like we all have the burden of proof, and the Clone wars being Great is accepted wisdom.Interesting. My impression is the opposite, that you have to show that TCW has any value at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Interesting. My impression is the opposite, that you have to show that TCW has any value at all. I think neither is the case. It is all a matter of taste. There is no way to quantify that The Clones Wars has value or doesn’t except in the eye of the beholder. I’ve been critical on TCW in the past, but after actually watching the entire series I have lessen my stance. I still don’t consider it on par with the original trilogy, but I don’t want to strangle George with my bare hand any longer. I’ve really enjoyed watching the episodes with my 9 year old cousin. His excitement and love for Star Wars reminds me of myself back in 1976. Still, I think my cousin has bad Star Wars taste because he likes the prequels and TCW better than the OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Interesting. My impression is the opposite, that you have to show that TCW has any value at all. I was referring to Alexrd, not the world in general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Do you have opinions or do we just have to explain ourselves to you? it seems like we all have the burden of proof, and the Clone wars being Great is accepted wisdom. I asked why should we have less releases. How can I have the burden of proof, if you were the one who came up with that statement? Ok, the reason I said that is because, although I read the EU and Love Star wars in general, I would rather have less releases but at a higher quality, when you see 14 year old padawans fighting Count Dooku to a standstill, and Gary Stukiller pulling ships out of the sky, and Luke skywalker fighting 12 true Sith at the same time... It kinda dilutes the Magic that got me in to Star Wars in the first place. Too much of a Good thing and all that. Why not ask for more releases with quality? You seem to suggest those can't be together. It happened when we saw an actual war in it, Same with TCW. And as a bonus, we don't only see the war in the battlefield, but we see the "behind-the scenes" and events during this time of war. full scale battles for control of the relevant systems, Same with TCW. Although not just to control relevant systems. we saw Grievous turning the tide of the war, The Gary Stu Grievous. I remember. we saw Anakin getting closer to the Darkside, How is that better or worse than what TCW shows? TCW shows the hero Anakin was supposed to be when we heard of him in ANH. And without the "emo" part. Besides, it has already shown Anakin using the darkside. we saw Anakin being Knighted and his growth, Erm... If it was shown there, it can't be shown again in TCW. we saw how Sidious final stroke played effectively putting everything in place for ROTS. No, we didn't. That was off-screen. And we see Sidious pulling the strings in TCW. Instead of, poor R2 is lost!!! we gotta risk everything to get the little droid back. Oh, wait a minute. Now you're using ad ridiculum. Great. You prefer to ignore everything else the series has shown, and pick the few episodes that don't meet your standards. And even seeking R2 on that episode had it's purposes. You seem to forget that R2 was full of info about the GAR. It was better to left him to the CIS, wouldn't it? Sorry, but the entire thing is cringe worthy, and i saw more than enough to learn that, your sarcasm is unnecessary. Apparently you saw nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SITH LORD 872 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 It painfully obliviously that you sir have never watched Looney Tunes. [/QUOTe] You beat me to it, Ever watched the coyote and roadrunner, Couldn't ask for more violence!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstr kenobi Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Grievous was a Gary Stu? How about Ahsoka???? Yeah you are right, they can't show Anakin knighted again, but the question you asked me was basically "what relevant things the old cartoon showed?" and i made i list of them for your appreciation, and what did you say? No you're wrong. Without any argument at all. I tell you what, the Clone Wars is all about, CIS got this new, surprise, ultimate weapon that is gonna turn the tide of war, we gotta stop them!!!! But only on the next episode. Either that or bounty hunter whatishisname is up to something bad that can change the war, but it doesn't really. How many more episodes do you think i need to watch? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 How many more episodes do you think i need to watch? lol More than you have "if" you want to give a intelligent synopsis of what The Clone Wars is about. As it is now it is rather apparent that you have not watched many of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Grievous was a Gary Stu? How about Ahsoka???? I never said otherwise. You are the one with double standards. Yeah you are right, they can't show Anakin knighted again, but the question you asked me was basically "what relevant things the old cartoon showed?" and i made i list of them for your appreciation, and what did you say? No you're wrong. Without any argument at all. What? I told that the same thing happens in the new series, yet you seem to ignore it. And even use fallacies to defend your argument (or lack of). I tell you what, the Clone Wars is all about, CIS got this new, surprise, ultimate weapon that is gonna turn the tide of war, we gotta stop them!!!! But only on the next episode. Either that or bounty hunter whatishisname is up to something bad that can change the war, but it doesn't really. See? Lack of argumentation and excessive use of ad ridiculum. There is no point in wasting my time to try to have a discussion with you. More than you have "if" you want to give a intelligent synopsis of what The Clone Wars is about. He couldn't even give an intelligent synopsis of the episodes that he apparently has seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primogen Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 The inherent problem with The Clone Wars is that the Clone War is a stupid conflict. I'm sorry, we've got Robots fighting Clones? I thought this is supposed to be a -war-, not Deadliest Warrior 31st Century edition. It's a war there's no reason to care about because the only people fighting are built or grown for it, except the Jedi who shouldn't be fighting anyway, because THEY'RE KEEPERS OF THE PEACE, NOT SOLDIERS. Argh. Really, why am I supposed to care about a conflict where both sides are morally bankrupt? The CIS is lead by the Sith, who kick puppies, eat them, and then molest the corpse - and that's not even getting into Grievous, and the Republic is growing sentient people for the purpose of dying in battle. Also, there's only 3 million Clones to fight a galactic war against at the very lowest number stated, trillions - some sources state quadrillions or even quintillions. 1 trillion is one million millions. In other words, every clone has at least 333,333 Droids trying to kill him. If we assume one quadrillion, each clone has 333,333,333 droids, if we assume quintillions, 333,333,333,333. Now, let's assume that Lama Su meant a division of 15,000 clones when she said unit. She didn't, but let's assume she did. That brings us up to 18,000,000,000 clones. Sounds more reasonable, right? Wrong. 18,000,000,000 is a staggeringly large number, true. The Old Republic consists of, I believe a thousand worlds? So enjoy having 1800 clones to defend an entire planet. And against even a single trillion, these 18,000,000 clones are still outnumbered 50:1, even with the odds at their most favorable. And the Republic is supposed to be winning? How does that work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 There were approximately 400 billion stars and around half of these had planets that could support life. Ten percent of those planets developed life, while sentient life developed in 1/1,000 of those (about 20 million). The galaxy was populated by approximately 100 quadrillion different life forms... There was 2000 planets/systems signed up to the pre-Rebellion (Delegation of 2000) so I'd say there was a lot less Clones per planet than that hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 It painfully obliviously that you sir have never watched Looney Tunes. Actually, Looney Tunes was aimed at both children and adults. There is definitely adult humor in those cartoons that was meant to go right over kids' heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primogen Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Ah, right, I'd forgotten that there were 20 million worlds that developed sentient life naturally, and 40 billion life-bearing worlds suitable for colonization - so yeah, numbers are jacked. Although 20 million worlds with only 100 quadrillion sentient life forms seems a bit odd - that's only about 5 billion members of each race after 25,000 years of galactic civilization. It seems like it should be an order of magnitude higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Actually, Looney Tunes was aimed at both children and adults. There is definitely adult humor in those cartoons that was meant to go right over kids' heads. I agree with that, but Looney Tunes was just as aimed at kids as Star Wars was and included most of Primogen list. I’m not even sure you can call what is in Star Wars incest. I highly doubt Lucas knew Luke and Leia were twins until 10 mins before they filmed the reveal scene. Also not sure two kisses would constitute incest, but I’ll leave that argument to those more knowledgeable about such matters. And the Republic is supposed to be winning? How does that work? First the clones and jedi are not the only ones fighting. Even in RoTS we saw wookiees fighting the droids. Plus they are droids, you win by turning off the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Wait... where's the 3million number coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Wait... where's the 3million number coming from? It's been mentioned in the Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic. One of the authors of that was Karen Traviss, who admitted that she knows **** all about Star Wars beyond what the licensing people told her, and what she's written herself. I'm not sure if she's the one who came up with that number, but she did defend it vocally at one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 It's been mentioned in the Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic. One of the authors of that was Karen Traviss, who admitted that she knows **** all about Star Wars beyond what the licensing people told her, and what she's written herself. I'm not sure if she's the one who came up with that number, but she did defend it vocally at one point. Wait... so, we're supposed to dislike TCW because Traviss claimed 3 million clones, even though TCW invalidates what Traviss says? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samnmax221 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Wait... so, we're supposed to dislike TCW because Traviss claimed 3 million clones, even though TCW invalidates what Traviss says? That is the "Fandalorian" way of thinking. As far as I'm concerned TCW is worthy of existence, if only because it made her run off and cry like a baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 That is the "Fandalorian" way of thinking. As far as I'm concerned TCW is worthy of existence, if only because it made her run off and cry like a baby. Made her run off and c'ry like a b'aby, s'urely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I'm just trying to understand it. I mean are they seriously arguing that we dislike the Clone Wars series because the 3 million clones is too few. And that the number was made up by a person who dislikes the series because they invalidated her work. So we should dislike it for invalidating something that didn't make numerical sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 That is the "Fandalorian" way of thinking. As far as I'm concerned TCW is worthy of existence, if only because it made her run off and cry like a baby. What did she call us? She made up some name for those who dislike her work. I can't recall now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkonium Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 What did she call us? She made up some name for those who dislike her work. I can't recall now. Talifan, a play on Taliban. In that context, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Talifan, a play on Taliban. In that context, at least. That's it. Well, such thing deserves no respect from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstr kenobi Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I never said otherwise. You are the one with double standards. I've never agreed that Grievous was a Gary Stu, i was actually surprised by you calling him that, they've made it quite clear that Dooku could have him any time he wanted What? I told that the same thing happens in the new series, yet you seem to ignore it. And even use fallacies to defend your argument (or lack of). Give me an example instead of telling me "you are wrong" that's all i'm saying... See? Lack of argumentation and excessive use of ad ridiculum. There is no point in wasting my time to try to have a discussion with you. Oh apparently i forgot to mention the episodes that the Jedi do random stuff that don't affect anything at all. He couldn't even give an intelligent synopsis of the episodes that he apparently has seen. You very smart man. Internet serious bussiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primogen Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 3 million clones has been the stated number in every work that's actually stated a number. Or should I say, the highest stated number. Even if the Clones actually number the highest reasonable amount - 1 unit equaling a Division of 15,000 and 1.2 million units coming up to 18 billion, it's still a horribly low number of clones for a galactic conflict. And yeah, Traviss is a hack and a nutcase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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