"Are violent videogames corrupting our children?" (You know this is going to be good)

[Jeff]

This kind of stuff isn't even :ugh:able, more like :guyofwar::guyofwar:

 

Editor of CVG.com Tim Ingham went on some Brit talk show to discuss violence in video games with two other "experts". What resulted was not pretty with the experts and the host just completely ripping apart video games, saying that they "promote hatred, racism, sexism", and muttering nonsense about the link between video games and violence in kids (there is none). They also seem to know nothing about the ratings system or parental controls on the consoles. Honestly this report is worse than the Fox News report from a couple years back that had Geoff Keighley on talking about Mass Effect (

if you haven't seen it). And what's even worse is the entire crowd is on the "experts"' side.

 

(This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.)

 

It just amazes and frustrates me how ignorant society is today about video games in general. At least Tim does his best to defend their points but I doubt any of them took anything out of what he said.

 

(Source)

[Sabretooth]

Call of Duty 2: Modern Warfare is a pretty cool guy, eh kills terrorists and doesn't afraid of anything

 

It wasn't as bad as the SeXbox controversy however, the only thing that annoyed me here was how the anti-game people tactically shifted debate topics when Tim came up with a rebuttal.

 

brb going to murder some old ladies and eat babies in GTA: Modern Warfare 2 - Killzone Armageddon

[Hallucination]

Films aren't attractive.

Methinks someone should leave the media commentary to people with a clue.

[Astor]

I don't know anything about this Peasgood woman, but she's clearly an idiot.

 

Kelvin McKenzie is a known arse (For instance, I am both a Gamer AND a Wargamer, and the two are very different), as is Titchmarsh to some degree.

 

I also doubt McKenzie's claim that one of the killers of James Bulger was influenced by video games - but then again, this is a man who thrives on making outrageous claims.

[True_Avery]

They can whine all they want. They've got no hard info to back themselves up.

[igyman]

That clip hurt my brain. It also caused some violent negative thoughts towards the two older "experts".

[Litofsky]

Clearly, we are all racist, sexist, bigoted fellows for playing video games.

 

Also, the responses of the crowd and the other guests on the program were just plain annoying. Clapping every time the two said something about how video games are corrupting our culture, degrading our infallible way of life. Truly, the vitiation of Western civilization lives with our video game industry.

[TriggerGod]

Clearly, we are all racist, sexist, bigoted fellows for playing video games. :¬:

 

Quite, now lets go put on our klan robes. Tell your woman to make a pie for us when we're back. The we can go debate and not listen to the other person at all.

[Revan 411]

I'll admit, kids under the age of 6 shouldn't exactly be playing games like Modern Warfare 2, Left 4 Dead, Grand Theft Auto or anything else of similar values. But for folks who are over 6 and are mature enough of handle such content, then its perfectly okay. Almost 90% of people on this forum play video games, yet, look at how we are. Are we bloody thirsty maniacs who kills babies and murder old women? Absolutely not. I think this video is complete hypocritical nonsense.

 

''Films aren't attractive'' Pfft, give me a break... we have parental controls for crying out loud. And if they don't work, then its the parents at fault here, not the source material their kids are playing and/or watching.

[Taak Farst]

*playin modern warfare 2* DIE, DIE, DIE!!

 

...sorry, what?

 

Are we bloody thirsty maniacs who kills babies and murder old women? Absolutely not.

 

..hey..listen..speak for urself..

[DarthParametric]

They've got no hard info to back themselves up.

Facts just get in the way of good journalism.

[ROTNR]

Facts just get in the way of good journalism.

haha I like it Darth.

 

I personally think that violence in video games does not corrupt people. However, I can't say for kids around age 8 or lower. I think it is just an excuse they use to do the stupid stuff they do. I've been playing games such as, GTA, Socom, Rainbow Six, since I was young probably around 9 or less, and I have no tendencies to go out and kill anyone or to harm another human being unless it is self-defense or something, I say pure BS

[Rtas Vadum]

Seems like she doesn't even get the point of watching the news then, because that is a form of entertainment, and likely every night, you might just hear about car crashes, shootings, a robbery, information about the war, etc. And yet that is perfectly alright, eh?

 

As to the reason video games are violent? I can answer that easily. Merely, because life is violent, along with many other things. If it wasn't violent, annoying, disgusting, profane, or any other term that applies, there would be no reason for movies, games, books, etc.

[Astrotoy7]

It's saddenning to know that people touted to be 'experts' would settle for such simplistic explanations to such a complex topic as 'what drives human behaviour?'

 

Texts such as The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, 4th Ed. (DSM-IV) are used by doctors and mental health professionals to try and predict patterns in human behaviour and establish guidelines about their professional management - whether it be via meds or counselling or both. It is by no means comprehensive, but increasingly governed by scientific principles examining genetics, anatomy and chemistry of the brain.

 

What association may exist is a symptom of greater factors, the key to which is within examination of the individuals affected.

 

There have been studies looking at 'videogames and violence' and whilst none of them are definitive in any sense, represent a step in the right direction of what needs to be done to understand the impact of immersive media on persons with a particular psychological profile.

 

A bunch of (mainly) old farts sitting around fist waving and making unverifiable generalisations only acts to stir public frenzy to suit their beliefs/agenda.

 

In the course of my work, I have come across some clients with Mental Health issues overlaying the physical issues I was seeing them for(as a physical therapist). Just a few weeks ago I came across a chap, now in his 50s. He had a violent childhood, got involved in crime himself and was involved in a shooting - which left him with significant physical diability. He is socially isolated, on limited means and as a result is frustrated, and often angry. When I visited him at home I noticed he had a PS2, and every single game he owned had a war theme. He noticed me looking at them and stated that playing such games helps him release the frustrations of his situation in life. He commented that he'd prefer to deal with his issues like that than acting them out on others.

 

Hence, there is never an easy answer. What is a release in one person playing a game, is a thrill, a challenge or a social activity for others. It's immensely complex, and the folks in that show, and others like them haven't really helped in making the public understand this.

 

mtfbwya

[Sabretooth]

I'll admit, kids under the age of 6 shouldn't exactly be playing games like Modern Warfare 2, Left 4 Dead, Grand Theft Auto or anything else of similar values.

 

You know, I'd really like to see any kid under the age of 6 playing Moden Warfare 2 successfully. :/

[Darth Avlectus]

Ugh. This bull**** again? They jumped all over him. Thank god these folks don't moderate Kavar's () or else they might have infracted him for repeating himself over and over again on the valid point that these type of games shouldn't be getting in the hands of children (minors) in the first place. I would contend with any of these "experts" that as powerful as video games are (which is orders of magnitude stronger than its predecessors), it still isn't going to push anyone to such crazy extremes, unless that person is already likely to do so. If I have said this once, I have said it a thousand times.

 

OK...

 

YES:

1) Violence begets more violence (especially interactive) and if I see one more counselor tell a kid that punching pillows will solve his anger issues as a form of release I'm going to spank that counselor with my leather belt...or a Teva, or something... (I just hope it's one of those hot and brainless blondes ).

 

Rebuttal:

Real time active-engagement games/activities/simulations, DO tend to stimulate relevant areas of the brain required to perform and play the game well. Oh, and doing this stuff in a game is easy compared to that of real life. Try accurately firing a thirty-ought-six for the first time and get back to me on that one.

 

2) Yes, some of these games ARE featuring intimacy. Such things will become an obsession and make our children perverted.

 

Rebuttal: Firstly, age matters for what games they are allowed to buy--it's called a ratings system. Also there are so many people out there who shouldn't reproduce. And while I agree this could be a major problematic evil, this obsession tends to also catch people indiscriminately; Would you rather that certain undesirable people fap over pixels, or dilute the gene pool with even more undesirable people?

 

And cyber-porn? Hmm. Gamer parents (and many non-parents if you catch my drift) would probably very gladly attest that nothing any game/dvd/etc. could produce is *quite* like having and experiencing the real thing. Correct me if I'm wrong? (and please keep it clean-ish)

 

While pixels getting it on and hentai and all that *definitely* turn people into horny idiots (), I bet you a mexican tequila that having lots of "easy acess" would do a far superior job of turning someone into a sexaholic nympho.

 

3) They CAN exert a POWERFUL INFLUENCE overall in many ways. The subtle ways they encourage or discourage a number of things. In fact, I have yet to fully chronicle all the little things and references throughout all the games I have played that suggest one thing or another in real life. I'm sure the numbers would be astronomical.

 

Rebuttal: Any level headed person will see much of it for what it is: A bias on the part of the programmers attacking straw-men.

 

4) They CAN affect your thinking and rationale. Long and short of it.

 

Rebuttal: However, video games are not capable of making any reasonable person go bat **** nuts BY THEMSELVES. Long and short of it.

 

5) Ruining our culture. The mantra of many games suggests a departure from the known, a sort of rebellion. I agree and fear that the messages sent out by many games may in fact be significantly affecting attitudes of individuals in negative ways--I.E. shaping perspectives of people to an idealized "perfect 10" expectation of how things should turn out in life, or how it sets an unnatural and unrealistic standard for interactions with real people.

 

Rebuttal: Some of these symptoms are merely exacerbation of things that already DO happen. Not to say it should be ignored but I do believe this is where responsible parenting comes in, no? Also, nerds tend to realize after awhile that as many times as his Sims avatar gets laid by his ideal dream girl in the game, he isn't getting any IRL probably b/c he expects all the girls to be playboy supermodels. He isn't actually getting ahead IRL in any other category either.

[Astrotoy7]

Also there are so many people out there who shouldn't reproduce. And while I agree this could be a major problematic evil, this obsession tends to also catch people indiscriminately...

 

Doc, why'd you set the DeLorean to 1938 ? [/McFly]

 

I'm pretty sure this discussion is not about sterilisation legislation, nor Eugenics. Save that hooey for Kavars.

 

For those that want to read about some of the work being done in this field that doesnt read like Mein Kampf

 

Violent Video Games: Myths, Facts, and Unanswered Questions. Craig Anderson (A Stanford Psych PhD). Includes references.

 

Reality Bytes - 8 Myths About Video Games Debunked. Professor Harry Jenkins MIT. Includes references

 

Very Interesting stuff:

>>PDF<<The Effect of Video Game Violence on physiological desensitisation to real life violence. Carnagey et al. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology

 

One thing that can be said with some confidence is that parents of kids today face many new challenges. Its not just the type of media kids are exposed to, but the sheer amount, which is unprecedented. Hence predicting the psycho-sociological effects of certain media based on past models is never going to reveal valid answers.

 

More research is needed to ferret things out. Until then, the ratings systems and parents common sense must prevail (if the latter exists in any given situation). I have to admit, I had almost zero interference by my parents over what I watched, played or listened to, as long as I didn't play it too loud! I don't have kids of my own but if I did would go the 'parental advisory' route rather than just ban them from it. If they're anything like me, they'd find a way to play it if I did get all fascist about it. Sneaky non-existent buggers

 

mtfbwya

[jonathan7]

I don't know anything about this Peasgood woman, but she's clearly an idiot.

 

Kelvin McKenzie is a known arse (For instance, I am both a Gamer AND a Wargamer, and the two are very different), as is Titchmarsh to some degree.

 

Just to echo Astor, this is a TV programme on UK Terrestrial television which is crap, the panellists have about as much intelligence combined as the average dog, and are about as qualified to comment on Video games, as Adolf Hitler would be on the Nobel Peace prize.

 

I also doubt McKenzie's claim that one of the killers of James Bulger was influenced by video games - but then again, this is a man who thrives on making outrageous claims.

 

So do I, what was out in 92... Super Mario Bros?

[DarthParametric]

what was out in 92... Super Mario Bros?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_in_video_gaming - plenty of ammo there for the anti-gaming lobby with the likes of MK and Wolfenstein. Of course the real villain there is Night Trap - paying for that would have driven anyone to violence.

[Prime]

I said years ago that that devil Rock and Roll was going to make everyone like violence. This is the proof!

[Astrotoy7]

I said years ago that that devil Rock and Roll was going to make everyone like violence. This is the proof!

 

Indeed Primseki, I recall newsreel clips of folks breaking Elvis records from back in the 50s, calling it the devil's music and saying that it is 'ruining society.' Now it's video games. I wonder what the next cultural evil will be?

 

mtfbwya

[Jae Onasi]

Yes, I'm sure Lego Star Wars, Lego Rock Band, and Wii Sports Resort are just horrendous influences on our children.

 

I will point out that certain games at certain times in kids' lives are too violent. My son got very out of control at age 5 watching Bibleman (don't roll your eyes til you see it--it's intentionally hilariously campy, kind of like Veggie Tales) doing his lightsaber duel thing against the bad guys. We had to set those videos aside for awhile til he got older and could handle even that little bit of pretend violence--and those fight scenes weren't in the least realistic. Exposing him to mature games at that age would have been very bad for him.

 

The problem is, some parents don't recognize the violence as being an issue for their kids, because they forget that kids don't process things the same way adults do. So they ignore the guidance warnings, and then wonder why their kids are beating up other kids on the playground.

 

As for sexism--yes, it's there. Devs think that all boys (because girls don't play video games, apparently) want to see half-naked females with boobs bursting at the seams. Let's face it, most of us gals don't have a bra size in the triple-Z range. I would also like to point out that in Real Life, armor class did not increase on females as the amount of armor decreases, and we do not store our spell power, mana, and hit points in our breasts.

 

Lord of the Rings Online and Star Trek Online are a few of the games I know that _don't_ create characters that battle with the uber-armor of a loin cloth and 2 clam shells tied together.

[True_Avery]

The problem is, some parents don't recognize the violence as being an issue for their kids, because they forget that kids don't process things the same way adults do. So they ignore the guidance warnings, and then wonder why their kids are beating up other kids on the playground.

Yeah, really the only link video games have to things like such as is letting the young play things not in their age/maturity range, and even then it depends on the kid.

 

My sister, for example, f'in loved GTA 3 when she was younger but, as far as I know, has never done anything violent. She, like me, is one of the only girls I know that prefers M shooters and such when she games and even then my sister is a very light gamer. Need to know what the guidance label offers, and how well your kid can take it. That can be said about basically any form of media.

 

As for sexism--yes, it's there. Devs think that all boys (because girls don't play video games, apparently) want to see half-naked females with boobs bursting at the seams. Let's face it, most of us gals don't have a bra size in the triple-Z range. I would also like to point out that in Real Life, armor class did not increase on females as the amount of armor decreases, and we do not store our spell power, mana, and hit points in our breasts.

Been complaining about this for years, but there really doesn't seem to be much of an anti-movement about it. Adults of both genders are just as quick to defend the giant boobs and lack of armor as the kids for reasons I can only shrug at. People don't seem to mind Lara Croft, nor the direction Samus has taken so... not much to do about it.

 

It doesn't really bother me too much either, but I prefer a character to look practical over beautiful or exaggerated. Like my Mass Effect Shepard, whom is hardly supermodel material but I prefer over all others because she looks, to me, like a Soldier. It also gets on my nerves when a previously practical character is exploited in later renditions.

 

I have a hard time calling it sexism and prefer to call it, well, lazy and immature since, as Jeff pointed out, men get the overly muscular treatment all the time. Its fantasy and devs have the ability to make "perfect" people, but that can also be said about many movies, comics, games, etc as well. It sells and doesn't seem to bother gamers so... not much reason to change it.

[JediAthos]

The type of uninformed, ignorant crap being spewed in that clip makes me want to bang my head against a wall.

 

See, video games don't incite violence...stupid people do

[Astrotoy7]

See, video games don't incite violence...stupid people do

 

Well said. You'll find ignorance is at the root of all evil. Plato said as much, over 2 millenia ago, yet some people still havent cottoned on

 

Also, its not like the folks in the above video have been raised in poverty in a remote Afghani village and exposed to brainwashing by religious fundamentalists. These are supposedly educated people - which begs us to ask questions of what type of education they actually received

 

Hopefully, kids of today are receiving a more complete education - but in the US specifically - when we find out that a lot of what kids are taught are dictated to by which textbooks Texas wants to buy, then you have to wonder. Things aren't like that in the UK/Oz in present day thankfully, though previous generations were subjected to more influence from non-secular institutions then they are now.

 

mtfbwya